2boyzmama

[khaoskat]

Any news from Huber Heights yet on your DS. I know he starts in a couple of days with them, and was wondering how things were going at this point?

[2boyzmama]

Thanks for checking in!!! Sorry I haven't been updating, it's SO frustrating, and by the time I leave an appt or end a phone call, I'm just mentally, emotinally, even spiritually EXHAUSTED. It shouldn't be this hard.

I'm going to start a new thread, because Connor had an appt in Cinci this morning and I learned some new info.

But for now...yes, he starts school on Wednesday (his birthday). He's starting at Huber. They're providing an interpreter, supposedly, and I requested that he also be provided with an ASL instructor so he can further his sign progression, and supposedly they're going to get someone who can fill both rolls (although how they're going to find a licensed interpreter who is also a licensed instructor, I don't know. AND, that doesn't fulfill the need for the rest of the family to learn more ASL.) They tried to say that his interpreter could also fill the role of feeding monitoring, but I put my foot down on that and said NO, that's just too much responsibility for one person.

I submitted a formal dispute of his placement, but I was backed into signing the IEP. I contacted Ohio Legal Aid and talked to them, they told me that if I declined the IEP in full, not only did Connor not get to start school on his birthday, but he also then would be INELIGIBLE for services!! They said absolutely DON'T decline the IEP. They said my best bet was to push the meeting off as late as I could, and petition Early Intervention (Help Me Grow) to allow him to stay with them until we settled the dispute. HMG said they wouldn't keep him past his birthday. So my only option was to accept the IEP, then immediately submit a dispute.

I've contacted several Parent Advocates, one from the SERRC is being very helpful.

I made a pest of myself during the IEP meeting, asking for everything I thought I could possibly get away with. I have requested monthly meetings (at least). I made it very VERY clear that I was not a happy mama, that I felt like I was being forced into accepting and IEP I didn't agree with, etc. I was polite and civil about it all, but also clear that the fight was not over.

SO...I'm waiting now for the audiologist from SERRC to call, I'm waiting for more records from Cinci Children's to be sent up here, I'm waiting for Ohio School for the Deaf to contact me about an independent MFE, and I'm still gathering as much information in support of my case as I can find.

[khaoskat]

Just an FYI, a regular sign language interpreter will not work under Ohio Law. They MUST, under the laws, provide him with an educational ASL interpreter...which means that the person must hold a certificate from the Ohio Board of Education to be a qualified educational ASL interpreter.

As for the IEP, you could have agreed to only one service on the IEP and they would have to provide everything. So, you could have only agreed to speech services, but they would have been required still to provide everything on the IEP.

Again, I would ask for a copy of the Interpreter's certifications. I believe it is a Temporary Teacher's Permit/License they must hold to be a Qualified Educational Interpreter.

Also, I wouldn't count on Legal Aid for much help, as they generally do not work in this area of the law locally. So, they are only going to be able to give general answers, which may not be 100% correct (like having to agree to the entire IEP or nothing at all).

If you want, I can do some checking around, I know we have one or two local attorneys who do special education law, and can get their names for you. This is a specialized area of law, that requires in depth knowledge of several acts/statutes, both on the State and Federal Level.

If you come across a court case and need a copy of the full text let me know, I can usually get it fairly easily.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

Just an FYI, a regular sign language interpreter will not work under Ohio Law. They MUST, under the laws, provide him with an educational ASL interpreter...which means that the person must hold a certificate from the Ohio Board of Education to be a qualified educational ASL interpreter.
I provided copies of the law to them, they are supposedly going to be giving him an educational interpreter. I called the school psych today and left a message requesting the name and qualifications of whomever they've hired. I said I want it tomorrow (Tuesday) since he starts school on Wednesday!!!
As for the IEP, you could have agreed to only one service on the IEP and they would have to provide everything. So, you could have only agreed to speech services, but they would have been required still to provide everything on the IEP.
That's not how it was explained to me by either Ohio Legal Aid or by the Parent Advocate at SERRC. They said that anything that I disagree to (i.e. cross off the IEP) would not be provided. The intake guy said that I could agree to only speech therapy, for example, and then the school would provide only that, and no in-class instruction until we sorted out the placement issue.
Again, I would ask for a copy of the Interpreter's certifications. I believe it is a Temporary Teacher's Permit/License they must hold to be a Qualified Educational Interpreter.

Also, I wouldn't count on Legal Aid for much help, as they generally do not work in this area of the law locally. So, they are only going to be able to give general answers, which may not be 100% correct (like having to agree to the entire IEP or nothing at all).
The intake guy said he's pairing me up with a lawyer that specializes in Spec Ed law, so hopefully it will be someone helpful. They did tell me that I could disagree with portions if I wanted, but that then those portions wouldn't be provided.
If you want, I can do some checking around, I know we have one or two local attorneys who do special education law, and can get their names for you. This is a specialized area of law, that requires in depth knowledge of several acts/statutes, both on the State and Federal Level.

If you come across a court case and need a copy of the full text let me know, I can usually get it fairly easily.

Thanks, I got my hands on a few that were specific to placement of Hearing Impaired kids, and I think I have full text. If I need more info, I'll get back to you.

[Aridel]

2boyzmama, your understanding is mine as well as far as rejecting portions of the IEP. They legally can't provide anything you have not consented to, so if you say "I reject the placement and do not want my son in this preschool" they won't/can't place him in the preschool. It sounds like you are pursuing all avenues necessary to get what your son needs!

[khaoskat]

It is difficult, because the actual school building the child is placed in, does not have an effect on his IEP. (BTDT with DS2 this year when my school district suddenly unenrolled him from where he had been the last 1 1/4 years, and switched him to a new school building.) So, even though she disagrees about his placement in a particular school, services she agreed with still have to be provided. But in a way it goes to the core of the entire thing, because she feels that her child needs this other program in another district, because it offers everything her child needs in the entire class, without singling him out.

So,in general, if she disagreed with one or two things on the IEP, then that is all that would be the issue, and everything else would still have to be provided, all services that she has agreed to (so if she agreed to ST, they would have to provide ST; if she agreed to a classroom aide they would still have to provide it). That is what I meant by it is not all or nothing.

I am really doubting that the school board could have filled the position this quickly. I have seen in the past that her school district has had a person who was hired year to year as a substitute ASL educational interpreter.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

It is difficult, because the actual school building the child is placed in, does not have an effect on his IEP. (BTDT with DS2 this year when my school district suddenly unenrolled him from where he had been the last 1 1/4 years, and switched him to a new school building.) So, even though she disagrees about his placement in a particular school, services she agreed with still have to be provided. But in a way it goes to the core of the entire thing, because she feels that her child needs this other program in another district, because it offers everything her child needs in the entire class, without singling him out.

So,in general, if she disagreed with one or two things on the IEP, then that is all that would be the issue, and everything else would still have to be provided, all services that she has agreed to (so if she agreed to ST, they would have to provide ST; if she agreed to a classroom aide they would still have to provide it). That is what I meant by it is not all or nothing.

I am really doubting that the school board could have filled the position this quickly. I have seen in the past that her school district has had a person who was hired year to year as a substitute ASL educational interpreter.

I understand that I could have declined portions, but really there is nothing that I disagree with except the overall placement. If Horace Mann (the other program) didn't exist, then I'd actually be pretty happy with what's being offered. I expected a fight over the interpreter, honestly.

It's just that the Horace Mann program is *perfect* for Connor, and obviously provides him with better services and better overall access to education, so I'm pushing for that placement hard.

I'm waiting for the school psych to call me back with info on the interpreter...we'll see what happens. The director kept saying that she had "several people" on staff already that could fill the position immediately, which is why I was so adamantly pointing out the requirements of an educational interpreter.

[2boyzmama]

HOLY *BLEEP* I might just strangle someone!!!

I requested copies of all of Connor's hearing tests from one of the hospitals he goes to. I need these to prove the variability of his hearing loss.

On the request form, I checked "Outpatient Clinic Notes, specific clinic: Audiology" and I also checked "X-ray Reports, Labs, or other tests: Hearing Tests".

Pretty clear, right?

Evidently not, because they sent me Otolaryngology clinic notes. The hand-written ones, too, not even the transcribed reports!

As soon as I calm down a bit I'll be making a nice little phone call to the medical records department

[7callmemom]

Oh my word. I'm so frustrated for you!

I've been reading along closely as my son will be dropped by EI at the end of the year and so far they aren't providing me ANY real info on how transitioning to PS services will work. We homeschool, but I still need may to look into the PS services for vision therapy...which I've already been told by my high school BFF/special ed teacher for our district is hugely inadequate.

Hope something goes your way soon!

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by 7callmemom

Oh my word. I'm so frustrated for you!

I've been reading along closely as my son will be dropped by EI at the end of the year and so far they aren't providing me ANY real info on how transitioning to PS services will work. We homeschool, but I still need may to look into the PS services for vision therapy...which I've already been told by my high school BFF/special ed teacher for our district is hugely inadequate.

Hope something goes your way soon!

There is really not much to the process.

Approximately 3-6 months prior to your child turning 3, the EI program contacts the public school district. If you are a summer birthday, they may wait till closer to the 3 months mark. If they have not, you can call and request that the PS (actually I would also put the request in writing, and send it to the PS Early Child Inclusive Program) perform an MFE (Multi Factoral Eval).

About 30-60 days before the child turns 3, the PS will set up the Eval with you. You show up with your child. They talk to you (each individual working with your child) while another person tests your child in their area, then they move on, etc. It takes about 60 minutes. You get another meeting time about 2-4 weeks later to go over the results and enroll in the program.

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by khaoskat

There is really not much to the process.

Approximately 3-6 months prior to your child turning 3, the EI program contacts the public school district. If you are a summer birthday, they may wait till closer to the 3 months mark. If they have not, you can call and request that the PS (actually I would also put the request in writing, and send it to the PS Early Child Inclusive Program) perform an MFE (Multi Factoral Eval).

About 30-60 days before the child turns 3, the PS will set up the Eval with you. You show up with your child. They talk to you (each individual working with your child) while another person tests your child in their area, then they move on, etc. It takes about 60 minutes. You get another meeting time about 2-4 weeks later to go over the results and enroll in the program.

Exactly. That's how it's "supposed" to happen. The only reason Connor's transition is an issue is because I am requesting out of district placement for him. I told the school this when we met in November to begin the transition. I told the school again in January when I called to ask when his MFE was. I told the school again during his MFE on Feb 5th. Then we had his ETR (Evaluation Team Results) and that's why they told me that they had decided on another course for him. Hence the fight now.

This is unusual, most kids will go in-district and you may have to push for a few items during the actual writing of the IEP, but no one else I know has run into the problems I'm facing right now. I've heard of issues with changing an IEP once it's written, but that's a different process than initiating an IEP.

[7callmemom]

We're considering trying to get in with the district next door...the district we THOUGHT we were in when we bought our home 5 years ago, but the lines had changed and we didn't know it. (this is the reason we began homeschooling in the first place, LOL, we weren't about to send our kids to the district we graduated from!)

sigh.

Again, hope things go your way!

[Momily]

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

I understand that I could have declined portions, but really there is nothing that I disagree with except the overall placement. If Horace Mann (the other program) didn't exist, then I'd actually be pretty happy with what's being offered. I expected a fight over the interpreter, honestly.

It's just that the Horace Mann program is *perfect* for Connor, and obviously provides him with better services and better overall access to education, so I'm pushing for that placement hard.

Speaking as a special educator, I want to encourage you to be very careful that what you just said here doesn't come out of your mouth, or your pen, in any communication with the district.

Federal law is pretty clear that an "appropriate" education (the A in FAPE) is one from which the child is able to "obtain educational benefit", and that that's where the district's obligation stops. In addition, the law is specific that in cases where there's an LRE (in this case in district vs. out of district) in which the child can "obtain educational benefit" that's the placement of choice. If there is more than one choice, the school system has no legal obligation to provide the "better", "best" or "perfect" environment.

Now, I'd also argue that legal obligations and ethical ones are different. It sounds to me like there's no question that Horace Mann is in his best interest, and I encourage you to fight with all your might to make sure he gets it. However, if you want to win that fight you need to stay away from implying that Mann is better -- legally that's irrelevant. The position you want to take, and stick to like a broken record, is that you do not think that Connor will benefit from the current placement, that you do not think he will make progress in language, unless he has the opportunity to generalize it to peers, which requires a peer group who signs.

Good luck, I think your district is being ridiculous and I hope you prevail! I also hope Connor has a fantastic first day of school (even if he's not "receiving educational benefit", I hope he'll at least have fun).

Momily

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by Momily

Speaking as a special educator, I want to encourage you to be very careful that what you just said here doesn't come out of your mouth, or your pen, in any communication with the district.

Federal law is pretty clear that an "appropriate" education (the A in FAPE) is one from which the child is able to "obtain educational benefit", and that that's where the district's obligation stops. In addition, the law is specific that in cases where there's an LRE (in this case in district vs. out of district) in which the child can "obtain educational benefit" that's the placement of choice. If there is more than one choice, the school system has no legal obligation to provide the "better", "best" or "perfect" environment.

Now, I'd also argue that legal obligations and ethical ones are different. It sounds to me like there's no question that Horace Mann is in his best interest, and I encourage you to fight with all your might to make sure he gets it. However, if you want to win that fight you need to stay away from implying that Mann is better -- legally that's irrelevant. The position you want to take, and stick to like a broken record, is that you do not think that Connor will benefit from the current placement, that you do not think he will make progress in language, unless he has the opportunity to generalize it to peers, which requires a peer group who signs.

Good luck, I think your district is being ridiculous and I hope you prevail! I also hope Connor has a fantastic first day of school (even if he's not "receiving educational benefit", I hope he'll at least have fun).

Momily

Oh yes, I know!! I've been very careful about this!! I know that they only have to provide adequate/appropriate and not "best", and I even understand the reasoning behind it. I'm sticking to the argument of social/emotional growth and his ability to communicate with his peers.

I think he'll do "ok" in the current placement, but he has the best chance of educational and communication gain in this other placement. The law is tricky here, for example it specifies that a child does not have to fail in order for placement considerations to take place...