Do you ever second-guess yourself re: being veg*n

[crunchy_mommy]

I have been vegetarian for ~15 years and vegan for the last 5 or 6? Haven't really kept track, but anyway, obviously I didn't just become veg*n on a whim. But every once in a while I start second-guessing myself. Maybe we really do need meat... throughout history, most people have depended on meat for survival. We were designed to be hunters & gatherers, not just gatherers. God gave us animals to eat. I've been sick (CSF) for 3 years now and maybe if I ate meat I'd feel better. etc. I don't mean any offense to anyone here, I'm trying to tread lightly & definitely don't want to start any arguments. I'm just curious if you have always felt, unequivocally, that veg*nism was the best choice, or if you've had doubts at times. (I'm not about to start eating meat!) I find it "easy" being vegetarian and mostly easy being vegan, even with allergies. I hate meat, eggs, fish, always have, and although I used to love dairy, I suspect I have some intolerance to it (as well as beliefs that we aren't meant to eat dairy), so it's hard for me to imagine not being vegan. And it's so much a part of my identity. And (this may be weird & too personal but I'll say it anyway) I was anorexic as a teenager & never totally "recovered" until I switched to a vegan diet, and it really made all the difference for me, though I can't really explain why or how!! Lately I've been looking at the TF diet (which actually is similar to how I eat, minus the animal products )... and I also like to look to how less developed and/or historical groups of people survived to make decisions (like BF'ing or co-sleeping etc.) so I feel like this is the one thing not completely in line with all that... Then there is the issue of CFS which I'm pretty certain has nothing to do with my diet but after feeling so bad for so long, I feel desperate at times & wonder if it's just because I'm vegan. Sorry this is so long & I'm not sure what I'm trying to say (and I hope I'm not violating the forum rules), I guess just wondering if anyone ever felt the same.

[dbsam]

Yes…I was second guessing tonight and discussing this issue w/my husband (an omni who eats l/o veg at home).

Not for myself. I’ve been l/o veg for over twenty years – for animal reasons not health reasons. (I keep falling off the vegan wagon even though I know the issues surrounding dairy/eggs.) And although I’ve gained a ton of weight and haven’t always eaten properly, my blood pressure, cholesterol, and sugar levels are great and I have no plaque in my arteries. I attribute this mostly to my veg diet – especially considering I am 45 w/PCOS (very common to have diabetes) and am grossly obese. I do not know what your condition of CFS is but I do understand considering a dietary change because of a medical condition. I sometimes wonder if I ate meat, would I eat less carbs which would help w/the PCOS.

Tonight I was second guessing feeding my children l/o veg. They used to be great eaters and I felt they were getting all they needed. They have become picky and I’ve become lazy in the kitchen…not a good combination. I also tend to lurk in the TF forum and really question raising the children veg after reading TF posts. I worry about B12, vit D, their teeth, etc.

So…we are remaining veg*n but I will continue educating myself and get back to healthy veg*n eating for the entire family. My goal is to eat a modified TF veg*n diet – if that is possible. (e.g. my children drink raw milk, eat sprouted grains, etc.) I would also like to give up dairy completely for myself…I am almost there; just the occasional cheese.

I still believe a veg diet is the best for animals, the environment, my ethical sense, etc…I just need to ‘do it’ the best way for myself, my family, and our health. I think I am questioning our current eating habits not vegetarianism. (Does that make sense?)

[ambereva]

Nope, not for a second. I have never in my whole life been so vibrantly healthy (check my blog to see pics of how switching to a whole foods vegan diet and getting moving has changed my body).

I am absolutely convinced, however, that no diet/lifstyle will result in optimal health without a hefty dose of daily, or near daily, heartrate elevating exercise.

[catnip]

My husband hit himself in the foot with an axe last Wednesday, I pulled a muscle in my back getting him into the car to go to the ER, my five year old has a cold, which I also seem to be coming down with, and I wanted SO BADLY to be able to order pizza or get fast food drive thru tonight. Mind you, I've been vegetarian for 15+ years and vegan for 3+. My child has never had meat and doesn't even think it's food.

[dauphinette]

The whole TF thing is a real sticking point for me, no doubt about it.
I have been veg. basically my whole life excluding the past few years where I ate meat then switched gears into TF and only recently have gotten back to veg. only because it's how I was raised, what seems "normal" to me.
My daughter was seemingly SO healthy, until her tfront teeth came in only partially formed. I had been hearing about TF and half-heartedly doing it, but not to concerned about it. Once I realized what was going on with her teeth and took her to the dentist I figured out that she was mineral deficient and it was basically my fault. My diet had left me deficient and in turn she couldn't even rob me of enough minerals to form fully! YIKES!
I got her on raw milk and have successfully halted the decay.
I started looking into the ideas of animals diet affecting how healthy their resulting meat is and thought that all makes a lot of sense.
I guess for me the sticking point is ever since I was pregnant I have not been vibrantly healthy, I have had thyroid issues and weight issues and while a low carb diet was helping me to lose weight, in my head I kept thinking that if I wasn't healthy then I shouldn't be overloading my body by eating meat.

I have never been vegan so that doesn't reall register to me as the healthiest option, I always thought of it as more of political position. I was raised on the idea that milk and eggs were very healthy foods and I do still believe that for children raw milk and pastured eggs are very healthy foods, vital even.
For myself I am doing vegan for lent and have found that my weight loss has halted even though I am no where near my weight goal and I suspect it is because I am eating more carbs in the form of whole grains and more fruit. Either way, for me, that is not going to be healthy or sustainable because being this weight is not optimal for my body at all.

So in short, LOL, I do have the same thoughts/fears.....what to do??

[elizabeth70]

being vegetarian brings me great joy, so i don't really question it. my main reason for not eating meat is so simple. it just seems obviously wrong to me to kill another living, breathing, thinking, feeling creature for little more than my own pleasure. i guess this hinges on my belief that humans don't need to eat flesh to be healthy. but that has always seemed obvious to me, too. through out recorded history individuals, groups and whole cultures have abstained from killing and eating animals.

if i was ever going to have doubts i think they were squashed in advanced by reading The China Study (as well as others like Eat More, Weigh Less and Healthy at 100) in regards to health. the science is definitive. animal protien is not healthy for humans to consume. on what i would call the "might makes right" issue the book Dominion by Matthew Scully is wonderful.

i know it's so hard to deal with feeling bad physically every day. i can see why you would question yourself in that case! i suffered from fibromyalgia-like symptoms for years and years and still deal with chronic fatigue and sleep issues. but in my case becoming more vegan has only helped. i almost never get sick (knock on wood!) and have gotten through too pregnancies and births, which really seems miraculous to me considering how sick i was before!

[ShadowMoon]

I have never second guessed my vegansim. I have been veggie for years, I feel great, have a clear conscience, and can't imagine consuming animal products. My child has also been thriving on a vegan diet.

I can understand that vegan/vegetarianism isn't for everyone, but it's the only way of life for me.

[AmandaMom]

I was vegetarian for about 6 years in the 90's and recently went back to it. I will admit, the thoughts about humans historically eating meat and being hunter/gatherers have crossed my mind on occasion, but I know this is the right diet for my family. I've never felt better! DP is vegan, and I eat mostly vegan, and we are thin and in great health... but that's not the reason we're veg. If I ever second-guess my diet, I just think of what those poor animals are put through so Joe Shmo American can have a double cheeseburger. Or five.

[fresh_veggie]

What an interesting topic. Glad to contribute -

I grew up in Texas with the "meat with every meal attitude." As soon as I left home, I went veggie. I'd been flirting with it for years, but college helped me go veggie.

I wholeheartedly agree with veganism. Not a doubt in my mind.

I sometimes look at the TF forum - that's what makes me doubt. But then I read about all their children's allergies and problems...and it reinforces in me that I haven't been sick except for food poisoning in years. And what the heck about a nice square jaw? My jaw looks like a combination of my parents. As do most peoples. I need to educate myself about what they're talking about. I basically would do TF without the animal products, with humane eggs and dairy as a treat.

The thing that makes me doubt it most is my tooth sensitivity. I get really bad tooth pain when I eat things like chocolate - I mean doubled over punched me in the mouth tooth pain. Only from sugar though, so I know it's not a terrible thing, but I've always had great teeth. Now this could be from a number of things, mostly having used Crest Whitestrips my freshman year of college (I'm a senior now). Among other things.

But I'm such an advocate. Yep. Saving the world and proud. Have I doubted? Sure! But that's ok.

[crunchy_mommy]

It's a relief to me to know others have doubted it at times!! It's definitely not an "I'm gonna start eating meat tomorrow" kind of doubt, just something that nags at me in the back of my mind occasionally. I really do want to read up more on the TF diet. I also have great teeth though (never had a cavity!) Maybe I just need to read a few more studies to remind me veg is healthy

[lilyka]

I have never doubted and I did jump on the vegan band wagon kinda without giving it much thought. ( I live down the street from a major meat packing plant. it doesn't leave a lot to think about. ) But even when I ate meat I was resolute that humans were not created to eat meat. I believe the Bible is true and take the account of genesis literally. I believe God gave animals to man as helpers and that we were to care for them and be thankful for them. not hurt them. I do nopt believe death entered the world until sin did and I believe that included animals. therefore in the begining we at vegetables. eggs amd milk are more iffy in my mind....My preist even said recently in a sermon, concerning fasting (we go completely vegan for Lent) "we were created to be a mutual blessing for each other and instead we have become a terror. for the next 8 weeks we will cease to be a terror to creation." that really affected me deeply. to be vegan is to cease to be a terror to Gods creation. not just to animals but in so many ways and on so many levels.

beside some many cultures are healthy and happy living on as vegetarians or vegans. if there is a lack of nutrients in our diet that should be addressed by what we are eating. of course if i thought for one minute I needed to eat meat to help my children be healthy or if I thought my children needed to eat meat of course we would. I cannot imagine needing to though. everything I need from meat i get in abundance elsewhere. The things I am most likely to lack (misc nutrients) are no more found in meat that they are in beans or spinach.

however I am not a great vegan. I will on occaision eat eggs (less and less as I grow more picky. man if I am indulging in an egg it had better be cooked perfectly and taste spectacular ) and dairy and even a bite or two of meat here and there (3-4 bites in the last year). jello and marshmellows don't even register as animal products on most days. i don't always read lables for milk and egg ingredients (although I so rarely buy processed foods now that i have a pretty good idea of what is vegan approved by now). I eat baked goods other people make even though I know they have eggs and dairy in them. but for the most part I stick too it. it has never been a "can't" sort of situation. it is a free country and I am free to eat whatever i want. if i want meat tomorrow I would eat it. if I needed it for some reason I would listen to my body and eat it (if i could get past the gross out factor enough to actually eat a serving of meat my body probably really needs it).

[blueridgewoman]

Originally Posted by fresh_veggie

I sometimes look at the TF forum - that's what makes me doubt. But then I read about all their children's allergies and problems...and it reinforces in me that I haven't been sick except for food poisoning in years.

To be fair, a lot of us have turned to a TF diet to heal these problems (so they were pre-existing prior to the diet). So it's not the result of a TF diet but instead, the TF diet helps address these problems.

Sorry, just poking around in here for veg recipes to serve for a dinner party.

[catnip]

Oh, I don't think anyone's trying to say a TF diet is causing allergies and illnesses, just that if one isn't having problems on ones current diet, why would one switch?

I mostly get really burned out on the lack of availability of easy options and convenience food for whole food no microwave vegans. If I could get my kid to eat at say Taco Bell in a pinch like the one we had last week, or if I'd been better prepared with a freezer stash in this crisis, I'd have not been so discouraged.

[crunchy_mommy]

Definitely, and you are in CA (if I remember from visiting several years ago, veg*n food was MUCH more readily available in grocery stores, restaurants, etc. than around here (New England)... There are plenty of fresh fruits & veggies, which is mostly what we eat, but even finding vegan whole wheat bread is a challenge, never mind more "convenience" foods!!! And if I go to a party or something... forget it, if I don't bring my own food, I starve.

[lilyka]

you should try finding a vegan option in Sioux falls SD. we have have a couple of local cafes that have a couple of dishes but if you want somehting fast, cheap, to go, and after 8:00PM you have NO options. it is really frustrating.

[ChristaN]

Originally Posted by dbsam

...Tonight I was second guessing feeding my children l/o veg. ... I also tend to lurk in the TF forum and really question raising the children veg after reading TF posts. I worry about B12, vit D, their teeth, etc.

If it makes you feel any better, my girls are much older than your kids (11.5 and 9.5) and have been strict vegetarians their entire lives and are very healthy with great teeth. I have been vegan for 21 yrs and was l/o veggie for a few years prior to that. Dds were vegan for the first few years and since then close to vegan with small amounts of dairy to make their lives easier when eating with friends. Neither one will eat cheese though due to rennet.

Dd#1 (the 11.5 y/o) lost her last baby tooth 6 months - a year ago. Her permanent teeth are perfectly straight and have no cavities. It isn't due to total absence of sugar either b/c their dad eats way too much junk & does buy them candy. I just feel like we really lucked out b/c she won't need any orthodontics. Virtually every one of her friends has or had braces. I really don't think that it is due to diet, though. Like I said, I think that we just got lucky.

Dd#2 is also good in the lack of cavities dept, but she may need some minor ortho. She still has a lot of teeth left to loose and the ortho told us to wait and come back in 6 months or so to see where things look then.

Like others have said, no one diet is perfect for everyone, but at least our kids are getting more fruits, veggies, and whole foods than the typical American kid.

And, on the original question, sorry but I am one of those who has never really questioned my decision to be vegan or to raise my kids veggie.

[dbsam]

ChristaN, Thank you for your post. Ironically, my children went to the dentist this week and she said...'Your children have beautiful teeth.’! Until the night I posted previously, I had never doubted our decision. The OP’s post just really hit home that night. Even if I did want to add meat to our diet, my children have never had meat and have no desire to try it - although my daughter would like to try marshmallows or jello.

[elizabeth70]

Originally Posted by dbsam

ChristaN, Thank you for your post. Ironically, my children went to the dentist this week and she said...'Your children have beautiful teeth.’! Until the night I posted previously, I had never doubted our decision. The OP’s post just really hit home that night. Even if I did want to add meat to our diet, my children have never had meat and have no desire to try it - although my daughter would like to try marshmallows or jello.

just wanted to let you know that there are vegan marshmallows and "jellos" out there. there are gelatin free gel cups and also the boxed make-at-home variety. we've had both and DS1 loves them. (tho, of course we only have that kind of super sugary treat every once in a blue moon. ). there are 2 different kinds of vegan marshmallows we get, air-puffed Dandies and Sweet & Sara (these are more 'fancy' and have to be refridgerated). they are both AWESOME. waaaayyyy better than marshmallows i remember having when i was a kid! again, they certainly aren't health food , but they are fun for a special treat!

[KaylaBeanie]

I picked a really crap time to go veg. I stopped eating meat this past October. Less than a month later, I got a wicked case of strep throat that took weeks to totally recover from. In late December, I got a cold/virus that took over three weeks to completely recover from. I've had two or three colds since then. I almost NEVER get sick. NEVER. I was worried that people would assume it was from become vegetarian, but thankfully only one person pulled that card. It definitely is frustrating at times, but then I remember that I am eating healthier than I ever have in my entire life. Chances are, if I still was on my meat heavy, junk diet I would have been sicker.

I do know that my iron is low though, I've been really tired lately. I slept 12 hours last night like I was dead, waking only once. That's the second time this week I've done that!

I firmly believe that vegetarianism is healthiest for children, and I can't wait to raise my kids without meat.

[Koalamom]

I second guess my diet, and always do.

I went vegetarian years ago when I was a teenager. I know it helped me to learn and grow, but I kind of regret it. It wasn't until I went vegetarian that I felt sick, blood sugar issues, and just ate crap vegetarian soy food all day. I wish I knew better to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. It has messed me up to this day. My mother and brother went vegetarian after I did and now my brothers are wasting away not getting enough nutrient in their teens, and they both have blood sugar issues and get light headed too, after simple sports.

Now we swung too high the other end and went into extreme meat eating, and TONS of dairy and eggs. Now my kids have tons of allergies and I have found it is due to all of these foods.

I am now looking for a balance. We are striving for a nutrient dense vegetarian diet (not vegan since wwe use kerrygold ghee for the vitamins). And we do eat meat sometimes, but that is mainly due to dh's request. But it will only be local humanly raised, and with respect. I just need to remember to eat it in moderation since dh would eat meat at every meal if he could. And I don't plan on eating any meat in the summer at all.

I still hang out on this forum to help me keep on track with vegetarian living, and with all the ideas and support. I do wish that the TF forum was a little more vegetarian friendly.