Help! Daughter getting picked on at preSchool

[red17]

Mamma's I am totally at wits end. My DD started preschool last yr and ENJOYED herself. Woke up laughing and eager to go see her friends. This year she's at a new school (since Sept) and it's awful.

At PS, she plays with 3 other girls; one of them is pretty damn mean. It's a small class, but there are other girls. Like most kids, my DD is not perfect. She's competitive and wants to win... DD has run around this girl (a behavior that is typical of some young children) to be first (which I've told her is not nice and made her apologize) but that's the only poor behavior I have seen on my DD part. I know that she is more retaliatory in nature vs instigating. And now I find out that more than one child is sticking up for her , but strangely I haven't heard any of this from her teachers .

Recently though, this child has reduced DD to tears several times with the infamous "I'm not playing with you anymore" line. I've told DD to say "Ok" and walk away and play with other kids. She has never before had difficulties finding and playing well with children at a park or in our mom's group. But I remember how cruel kids can be and how much it can hurt to be excluded from the group you were part of.

When the first incident happened, I thought the kid couldn't/wouldn't say "I can't play with you now because I need to go back to my mom" ... she shouldn't have left the preschool pickup when she did and I thought she realized she was in trouble with her mom (true). My DD didn't understand what was happening and sobbed as she had never had been told this before and couldn't understand what she had done wrong. Explaining the situation to her (as I and another mama saw it) didn't help. When the child returned (with friend in tow), they both ran from her (which sent her sobbing again) so I took her to the car. That was about 3-4 weeks ago.

Now, the girl has realized that my DD is sensitive to those "I won't play with you" chants and utters them daily. She told my DD that her clothes are ugly and now my DD tells me that the child is enlisting others to be mean .. ie "Hey Jane, cut Sally" or "Hey Jane, don't play with Sally". The Preschool director told me just before break that they're aware of some issues between the girls and suggested we do a "playdate" with just the two girls.

I'm thinking that they should have A. brought it to both of the parents, and B. Stated clear rules of behavior and consequences for not following the rules. .. But hey, I'm not an educator, so I shut my mouth (not typical) and talk to the other mom about a playdate ... This Monday morning, after a sort conversation she says she would support this idea (though it was lukewarm at best).

When I picked up my DD Monday, she tells me the child told her that "My Mommy told me not to play with you". So, my DD played with other kids which I am happy she did, but sad that she is the one to be pushed out of the group. Now what??? Do I ignore what my DD told me happened? Wait to see if the mom really will schedule the playdate... decide not to pursue it .... I'm totally at a loss here.

Today, I learned from an outside party, that it is definitely true that this child is trying to get other children to be mean to my daughter. Sorry for the long rant. As you can tell, this is upsetting and stressful for the whole family.

As much as I realize that children are children and that they are faced with challenges in school, I never thought it would start in preschool. I also don't want my DD (or the other child) to suffer at the hands of another child. We have a meeting with her teacher this week. I could use some good ideas on how to approach the teacher with this ... Obviously, having her support is the best way to alleviate the situation. ... Any thoughts Mama's?

[staceychev]

So sorry that your little girl is going through this!

My daughter went through a similar, though not as extreme, experience at her preschool. This is what we did:

First, her teachers recognized it was a problem and didn't put it back on us. (Imagine if your middle school child was being bullied and the teacher suggested that your child and the bully go to the movies together!) They did a lot of redirecting of DD to another girl in her class who's an absolute sweetheart and who DD is really compatible with.

Her teachers also started a process of talking to all of the girls about how to treat each other. There was a lot of discussion of good and bad behavior, of "you don't have to play with someone you don't want to play with, but you can't be mean either." After these discussions, there was a lot of monitoring.

Our process at home has been to just talk about it. I redirect her focus to her friend "I" a lot, and try to direct her away from bullies "G" and "M." I talk to her about nice behavior, about how friends treat each other, and also about the big lesson that not everyone is going to like her. (That's a really tough one for me, actually... I'm driven insane when I know that someone doesn't like me...)

You know, part of the reason that bullies get away with their behavior is that there's no one there to stop them. Obviously, it doesn't excuse older bullies, but it makes sense. There's no reason, however, that preschool teachers should be allowing this to happen if they're aware of it. I would be irate that the teacher put the problem back on you and suggested a play date. Really, I'm absolutely steamed for you!

[K1329]

Unfortunately, we cannot always be there for our little ones. I have concentrated on trying to give my dd the "tools" to deal with situations like this on her own. It seems that "I don't want to play with you" is a common phrase for little girls.
I think in preschool they are learning how to be and have friends and that there are bound to be some "bumps" along the way. Try to look at this as a learning opportunity - hard I know, when you want to stop your child from being hurt!
One book, although geared for older children, that we have found useful is put out by American Girls... "Stand Up for Yourself and Your Friends: Dealing with Bullies and Bossiness and Finding a Better Way". I have read this book several times with my dd. Try to find some books that give ideas for children to use. Maybe other posters will have some good suggestions.
If it's any consolation, my dd has gone through periods of hearing "I don't want to play with you". She is now well adjusted, in 1st grade, and has a group of about 3-4 close friends that she plays regularly with. Just b/c your dd is having a rough time right now doesn't mean it will stay that way! Hang in there!

[peachsara]

Originally Posted by staceychev

So sorry that your little girl is going through this!

My daughter went through a similar, though not as extreme, experience at her preschool. This is what we did:

First, her teachers recognized it was a problem and didn't put it back on us. (Imagine if your middle school child was being bullied and the teacher suggested that your child and the bully go to the movies together!) They did a lot of redirecting of DD to another girl in her class who's an absolute sweetheart and who DD is really compatible with.

Her teachers also started a process of talking to all of the girls about how to treat each other. There was a lot of discussion of good and bad behavior, of "you don't have to play with someone you don't want to play with, but you can't be mean either." After these discussions, there was a lot of monitoring.

Our process at home has been to just talk about it. I redirect her focus to her friend "I" a lot, and try to direct her away from bullies "G" and "M." I talk to her about nice behavior, about how friends treat each other, and also about the big lesson that not everyone is going to like her. (That's a really tough one for me, actually... I'm driven insane when I know that someone doesn't like me...)

You know, part of the reason that bullies get away with their behavior is that there's no one there to stop them. Obviously, it doesn't excuse older bullies, but it makes sense. There's no reason, however, that preschool teachers should be allowing this to happen if they're aware of it. I would be irate that the teacher put the problem back on you and suggested a play date. Really, I'm absolutely steamed for you!

She said it all

I hope you are able to find some peace for your daughter and yourself very soon.

[red17]

Thanks for the understanding and validation. For a while, I thought I was going crazy.

Today, she had a playdate with one of the other girls in the group. I found out from that mom that there were problems in the beginning of the year with her DD and the child that is instigating mean behavior toward my DD. And that now this child is trying to get her daughter to join. So far she has been the one to stand up for her. Everything my DD told me I believed; but now it has been verified by another child and her mamma. I am fighting

The other Mama suggested bringing the teacher and director together on this as this is demonstrating a level of behavior that they need to be on top of and stop now.

To think that this does happen at preschool level frequently and right in front of the two teachers (in my case) seems completely unacceptable to me. Thank you for the American girl book suggestion too. I will be checking for that today.

I appreciate all the ideas and suggestions. I think that helping my DD find inner strength and the tools necessary to withstand this crummy behavior is certainly in order. It can only help her as her school years progress. Thanks.

[Girlprof]

I have two main thoughts. First, this is entirely age appropriate. It's mostly not about your DD or the other kids or anything - except being in PS. I think for us this happened at around 3.5/4 years old. I'm betting it happens in almost every PS and probably in other groups as well.

Second, age appropriate does not equal appropriate. It is *not* appropriate but the kids need to learn that. Our PS has a rule that the kids are not allowed to say "I won't play with you." Everybody plays with everybody. That doesn't mean the new kid can show up and demand major changes in the game that is currently happening (this was my DS's favorite approach). But assuming the new kid is willing to go along with whatever the other kids are doing, they have to let him/her join in. At first I thought this was kind of draconian, but having watched it in action, I really approve.

I heard something recently on the radio about a KG classroom where they instigated the everyone plays with everyone rule. It had repercussions right up through the rest of the school. It is really a good idea to teach kids to be kind to each other.

However, this sort of behavior also isn't likely to scar anyone for life. By KG and 1st grade, kids are less interested in this sort of thing.

[Cascadian]

We went through this experience as well at that age. Here's what I learned:

1) This is totally a developmental thing. Girls will say that one day, and be best friends the other. They're 'playing' with power.

2) THIS IS A BLESSING IN DISGUISE! Trust me on this one. I only came to that conclusion after the fact. There will always be that *one* child in a class...for every year the kids are in school...who is the mean girl bully. The blessing part: that this happened to us in a controlled environment at an early age where adults were around. We were able to role play, give DD the words to be strong, and have her an environment to practice in. And if it got too bad, the adults would step in. This pretty much bully-proofed her for elementary school where it absolutely does happen to many kids. Some kids who have never gone through the process are blindsided in elementary school and really have no experience or toolkit to draw upon.

[staceychev]

Originally Posted by Girlprof

age appropriate does not equal appropriate.

[red17]

update

Just an update. We met with the Preschool director. Made her aware of some issues with my daughter and one classmate. The Director was in class Monday and witnessed an incident first hand. Ultimately, she said they will put together a plan and begin implementing it on Wed p erhaps after talking with the other parents.

Mh only concern is that at the end of the conversation with the Director, it was suggested that if the problems are still occuring after a month that we could move our DD into another class. Ah Won't the bully just be getting what they want?? Isn't this going to seem to my DD that when she does nothing wrong she is the one that gets punished???

I made it perfectly clear that moving my DD was not an option. Really, that was totally off the wall.... let's reward the child who you (the Director) has identified as the ringleader and troublemaker, that makes complete sense

[Lolagirl]

Originally Posted by red17

Just an update. We met with the Preschool director. Made her aware of some issues with my daughter and one classmate. The Director was in class Monday and witnessed an incident first hand. Ultimately, she said they will put together a plan and begin implementing it on Wed p erhaps after talking with the other parents.

Mh only concern is that at the end of the conversation with the Director, it was suggested that if the problems are still occuring after a month that we could move our DD into another class. Ah Won't the bully just be getting what they want?? Isn't this going to seem to my DD that when she does nothing wrong she is the one that gets punished???

I made it perfectly clear that moving my DD was not an option. Really, that was totally off the wall.... let's reward the child who you (the Director) has identified as the ringleader and troublemaker, that makes complete sense

Sorry to jump in so late to this thread, but I absolutely agree with you 100% and would insist on another discussion with both the teacher and director to straighten this out.

My son had a similar experience in preschool last year being singled out by a clique of girls who were really been mean and exclusionary towards him and a few other kids. I said something to their teacher about it and she quickly came up with a plan to shadow the group of kids, separate them whenever they started up with the cliquey mean stuff, and talk them about why their actions were not acceptable. All of this was done in a gentle but consistent way, but the point is that she didn't just do it for a few days and then let it drop. Every single time it was noted that the behavior was starting up again it was dealt with according to the pre-agreed plan, and she would never have imagined telling us to switch our kid out of the class like that. Frankly, it sounds like a lazy way around not dealing with the problem. That just isn't acceptable to me.

Hope that helps!

[junipermuse]

Originally Posted by red17

Mh only concern is that at the end of the conversation with the Director, it was suggested that if the problems are still occuring after a month that we could move our DD into another class. Ah Won't the bully just be getting what they want?? Isn't this going to seem to my DD that when she does nothing wrong she is the one that gets punished???

As unfair as it may seem to remove your dd from the class, and despite the fact that the other little girl is the one with the undesirable behaviour, you must realize you, your dd, and your family are the ones that own the problem. You can't control what others do. Sometimes you have to walk away. It's not a punishment, its a fact of life. I think what the director is saying is that even after a month of dealing with this situation it may be the case that the two girls would benefit from being separated in different classes and since its your dd who is the one who is hurt and sad and seeking the change, she would be the one to be moved into a different classroom.

That being said, I would definitely want to know that the school has (and plans to enforce) or will institute a "you can't say 'you can't play'" rule. Please read Vivian Paley's book "You can't say you can't play" and then pass the book on to the director. I would also want to know what the rules are regarding children saying unkind things and how those situations are handled. But even when those issues are being handled appropriately, those incidents don't ever completely stop from happening. Children always will say mean things, so the real issue is how its being dealt with. How we as the adults and role models in our children's lives respond to the negative things that happen in life is what really teaches our children.

[laila2]

I can't believe the school is not doing anything

Around here, the daycare my kids attended, and public schools, teachers work hard to not have exclusions. They work to create a friendly environment that includes all. The children are friendly to each other, and know not to tease, or be mean.

I do not want to make it sounds like your child will be scarred for life, but the world is too full of bad examples of outcasts, to let them occure. Entire communities are learning to raise children in friendly environments.

It's a no brainer

[One_Girl]

I think you should move your child to another classroom if the teacher's are unable to redirect this girl. I also wonder what the girl is telling her mom to make her think your child isn't someone to play with. I realize you met with the director, but did you also talk address what how your dd interacts with this girl when you aren't there. My dd has had on/off relationships with people in her daycare and school and she is not innocent of wrongdoing when things aren't going well between them. Since the mom isn't receptive to playdates and she is telling her child not to play with yours, it sounds like something else is going on.

[Lolagirl]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

As unfair as it may seem to remove your dd from the class, and despite the fact that the other little girl is the one with the undesirable behaviour, you must realize you, your dd, and your family are the ones that own the problem. You can't control what others do. Sometimes you have to walk away.

How does the family of the wronged child exactly "own" the problem here?

I have to say I really don't understand this perspective, especially when we are talking about preschool age kids (presumably in the age range of 3-5yo.) Much of a preschool teacher's job is to manage the kids in his or her classroom and their interactions with one another. Preschool age kids are still learning the basics of how to interact properly with their peers and it's part of the job description for the teacher(s) to help teach them the tools they need to master these basics.

Btw, in the example I gave earlier of the teacher having to step in and manage a group of students in my son's class her action plan did in fact work. As in, within a day or two they all got the message that saying mean and hurtful things and excluding other kids from say the play kitchen or whatever was not going to be permitted by the teachers. And as I said earlier, all of this was done in a very gentle way, the students were sat down and had a conversation about why it hurts people to say mean things to them and to exclude them from play. Nobody was shamed or forced into time out or anything like that, but more importantly the bullied kids were not left alone to deal with the situation or to "toughen up" so that the mean behavior could continue unchecked.

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by Girlprof

age appropriate does not equal appropriate.

No kidding!

[amma_mama]

Originally Posted by Lolagirl

How does the family of the wronged child exactly "own" the problem here?

I have to say I really don't understand this perspective, especially when we are talking about preschool age kids (presumably in the age range of 3-5yo.) Much of a preschool teacher's job is to manage the kids in his or her classroom and their interactions with one another. Preschool age kids are still learning the basics of how to interact properly with their peers and it's part of the job description for the teacher(s) to help teach them the tools they need to master these basics.

Especially given the fact that one of the primary reasons for preschool is "socialization". A preschool teacher is not there simply to teach the ABCs - they are there to nurture a positive environment for learning, which includes learning how to be part of a community.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by junipermuse

As unfair as it may seem to remove your dd from the class, and despite the fact that the other little girl is the one with the undesirable behaviour, you must realize you, your dd, and your family are the ones that own the problem. You can't control what others do. Sometimes you have to walk away. It's not a punishment, its a fact of life. I think what the director is saying is that even after a month of dealing with this situation it may be the case that the two girls would benefit from being separated in different classes and since its your dd who is the one who is hurt and sad and seeking the change, she would be the one to be moved into a different classroom.

Oh, no no no. It's not just unfair, it's wrong. The school owns the problem. If one child is bullying another, then the teachers and administrators need to be STOPPING it.

I totally agree that if this isn't properly addressed and stopped, then of course the OP should protect her daughter and take her out of the classroom. Maybe even the school, if this school can't fix the problem.

HOWEVER, Red17, One Girl makes a really good point. You need to address these issues:

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I think you should move your child to another classroom if the teacher's are unable to redirect this girl. I also wonder what the girl is telling her mom to make her think your child isn't someone to play with. I realize you met with the director, but did you also talk address what how your dd interacts with this girl when you aren't there. My dd has had on/off relationships with people in her daycare and school and she is not innocent of wrongdoing when things aren't going well between them. Since the mom isn't receptive to playdates and she is telling her child not to play with yours, it sounds like something else is going on.

I think you need to find out the answer to that question before you do anything else.

[Cascadian]

From experience, I'm going to gently suggest to try to put the bulk of your energy and emotions into teaching your child, rather than trying to get someone else to change the external situation or another child's behaviour. We went that route, sure it was somewhat effective, but not completely. In the end, the skills that you give to your child to deal with this sort of interaction (which is, sadly, very common and will happen again), is the important thing. I wasted many nerves and braincells trying to 'understand' the other child, the other parents, the teachers' minds and actions...all the while, the thing that I *did* have under my control - my interaction with my DD - was right there all along.