4 year old amount of sleep

[Masel]

Yesterday my 4 year old had a really good nap (this was because we gave her benedryl because she was exposed to an allergen but that is beside the point). She was so good in the evening! Her behavior was excellent and she seemed calm with herself. Unfortunately she did not sleep well at night. I got up with the baby and found DD1 looking at books in the middle of the night. Yay on her for finding something quiet to do but I doubt she got much sleep.

I know she should be getting at least 11 hours at this age. On daycare days she usually gets a nap. That's 3 days a week. On days she's home with me I've stopped making her. In the time she switched to being home with me 2 weekdays her behavior especially with transitions has gotten really bad and I wonder if this is because she's not getting enough sleep. It also seems like on days she goes to daycare she has more trouble getting to bed at night. Is this because she got a good nap or because she wants more time with us.

I guess my main question is if I should try to get her to take naps still. She often fights bedtime and on average isn't asleep until 9 (we'll start at 7). She's usually up at 6:30 even when she doesn't need to be up.

[Grace and Granola]

I have a 4yo and a 3yo and have been through the ringer with sleep stuff.

What I've found, especially around 3 and 4 when naps become more "optional," is that each child sort of has a quota with sleep. Both of my boys need about 11 hours of sleep per day. Most of the time now, neither of them take a nap and get those 11 hours at night from about 8pm-7am. But, if we have a particularly busy day, both of them might need and choose to take a nap. That ALWAYS makes bedtime later and more difficult. It's totally a trade-off. And I have a small measure of control over the situation depending on the day. I have to decide, do I want a peaceful afternoon with them taking a nap and a "better" mood in the evening, BUT a later bedtime? Sometimes though, I just choose to push through a cranky afternoon/evening to I can get them in bed at 7!

I guess the point is that at this age, I don't think naps have to be all or nothing. But you do have to realize the trade off. On those daycare days, I think you should just plan to start bedtime at 8 instead of 7, knowing that she won't be asleep until 9. I personally, cannot stand the struggles of bedtime, so I would rather it be easy at 8 than hard at 7.

Also, on the no nap days, I always insist on them having "quiet time." I need it and they need it. I set them up with some books or quiet toys in their beds and they must play quietly for an hour or so.

Oh--and about the 6:30 wake-up thing...right, my kids wake up at 7 or a little before, NO.MATTER.WHAT! That means, that if we have a late night before, then they wake up at 7, it almost necessitates a nap! Thus throwing us back into a different routine. I HAVE to look at it like this: Some days, I get a break when they take a nap, and some days, I get the benefit of a very easy/early bedtime.

Good luck, I know it's hard!

[staceychev]

I've read that there's actually a window of opportunity to get kids to bed that is done by 9 pm (something to do with circadian rhythms or something). Perhaps getting her to bed a little earlier will actually help her sleep more. ETA: Oh, sorry. Just read that you start bedtime at 7 and she doesn't go to sleep until 9. OK. Nevermind that one!

As far as the nap goes, I don't know what to tell you. DD doesn't nap for me, but did for daycare, but she was there 5 days a week, so it was less disruptive. I do enforce a quiet time in the afternoon, though, whether or not she naps.

As far as reading your post, I see that there are actually two problems: behavior on her days home, and getting to bed at night. As far as her behavior on home days goes, is it possible that it's not sleep related at all, and that she thrives on the routine of daycare? How structured are your days at home? As far as getting to bed, what is your pre-bed routine? I know that at one point we sat down and drew a comic book version of all the things that were going to happen in the evening, from dinner, to jammies and bath, to stories and bed. This structure helped immensely. We're not as structured now, but in the first few months after we implemented it, it was really helpful.

[Masel]

Transitions are bad everyday, not just the days she's with me. I've tried to mimic the structure of daycare as much as baby will allow. I do think she could use more structure and we are going to send her to a more school like preschool (as opposed to her her current one which was also her daycare when I worked) but that doesn't start until September.

She's just seemed so out of sorts since the beginning of the year and I've been trying to figure out how to help her make it right. I could live without naps entirely if she'd just sleep at night.

[fritz]

My 4yo DS gets 10 hours of sleep at night, and that seems just right for him. He's been nap-free for almost a year (and he's actually almost 5). Back when he did take regular naps, he'd still total around 10 hours of sleep for the day. However, he didn't regularly sleep a 5 hour stretch at night until he was well over 3 years old, so I'm loving the solid ten hours.

Even while he was phasing out the naps, his behavior/mood never suffered when he looked tired. I got super cranky until my body adjusted, but DS was fine.

DS also fluxuates between waking up at the same time every morning (which he's been doing for a couple months now), and waking up 10 hours after he falls asleep. So right now, some nights he only gets 9 1/2 hours, but a couple nights later, he'll get 11 to make up for it.

Kids' sleep patterns always seem to be in flux; good luck figuring out what works best for your family.

[staceychev]

Originally Posted by Masel

Transitions are bad everyday

This might be just what's on my mind now because I'm halfway through it and it's already a revelation, but have you read Mary Sheedy Kurcinka's Raising Your Spirited Child? It's giving me some really great insight and tips.