No PL 'til 3?!

[Megan73]

I like my DCP provider and think she tends to have fairly realistic expectations for her little charges but I was shocked when she told me she doesn't think boys are "ready" to PL until age 3. I'd heard boys were a little slower than girls but 3? Really?

[*jeanine*]

My ds was potty trained (daytime) by 2y 3m. He pretty much did it himself. We just had a potty available for him. No books, no rewards, etc. And he was in sposies, too, which is supposed to make them learn later.

[Red Pajama]

My twins were day trained before three, but we did have accidents. A friend of mine has a son that trained himself well before two.

Boys do seem to tend toward later, and I think forcing the issue early is much worse than starting late... I guess I can kind of see the doctor's point.

[SeekingSerenity]

Both of my older boys were past three when they PL'd, but my Lil' Man is 20 months old right now and showing definite signs of wanting to PL. I think it depends on the child.

Conversely, the twin girls I am babysitting right now are almost 4, and one of them is not completely PL'd. Most days I have her in pull-ups and change her as often as I change Lil' Man. It sucks, mostly because her mom didn't tell me about this when I agreed to watch them every day. But these are girls, and none of my girls took this long to learn.

[Bokonon]

Most of the boys in my moms' group PL'ed between 3 and 4 - this is out of a group of about 100 kids born within a couple of months of each other. There were a few that PL'ed between 2 and 3.

My son refused to have anything to do with a potty until he was 3.5, and wasn't diaper-free during the day until 4y3m. And he wasn't even the last kid out of our group to be done with diapers!

[rlandnl]

My son was 3 years old and a couple days. He wanted Cars underpants that he saw in the store (we had just seen the movie) I told him sure when you pee and poop on the potty. And that day he did without accidents.

I had tried several times putting him on the potty starting at about 2 but nothing. He was not ready till 3... that being said, he's 6.75 and still not night trained for pee.... 9 nights out of 10 he's wet.

[kittykat2481]

DS was day time trained by 23 months and we didn't really do anything. All we did was put him in underwear once because he was out of diapers at grandpa's house. He didn't like feeling wet, so he used the potty. I won't say that ALL children will be potty trained before 2, but neither will I say that ALL boys should wait until they're 3. It's different for every child, and if your child is ready now, it doesn't matter their age.

[RosemaryS-F]

Ds is potty trained; he's 23 months old.

[triscuitsmom]

With one exception during a hospitalization when he was on IV for his hydration/nutrition and couldn't make it to the bathroom at 22 months old the last time my oldest was in diapers was when he was 18 months old. He's 3.5 years old now and so he's been out of diapers for more than half of his life at this point.

My second son is 13 months now and uses the potty about half the time during the day I'd say. We are dealing with a chronic illness with him but until he got sick he was dry at night too.

We part time EC (starting from two weeks with the second, but not until about 8-9 months with our first) so the potty is available if they want to use it, but we never coerce or offer bribes or punishment.

[Fujiko]

my dd will be three in a few weeks and she has no interest at all in using the toilet. I'm not pushing it. It's fine with me because changing her diaper is easier than taking her to the toilet frequently--she's too short to climb up herself and she hasn't learned to take her pants off yet (probably only because she hasn't tried though). I have a newly-born baby to take care of so I can't always be there for her immediately.

[Alyantavid]

I think it depends alot on the kid.

Both my boys were potty trained just past 2. It was incredibly easy and they were completely ready.

[MeAndVee]

DS has been potty trained since 26.5 months. And everyone I know who had a boy told me to wait until he was atleast 3 too. Even my mom and she had 4 girls and no boys. We used the 3 day ebook method and although it took 8 days it worked and really wasn't all that bad. For the most part he is also dry all night. But we didn't do what the book said because I read some where that taking your toddler to pee at night can actually delay them in being able to wake on their own to use the bathroom. Its a maturity thing...just like any other milestone. We use pull-ups at night. Would be nice to find something in cloth that isn't bulky but is absorbent enough to hold a night accident.

[ChinaDoll]

Sounds like she follows, "Start PL at 2, end at 3 ... start PL at 3, end at 3" like me

I know there are exceptions.

BUT, PL before a child has the manual dexterity to always get to the potty on his own, on time, and get his clothing off in time and get on the potty in time seems much more about training the adult to be hyper-vigilant and to run said child to the potty on time than about actually training the child. IMO.

Both of mine showed no interest (despite bribes, LOL) in the potty until after age 3; both were trained by 3.5. And by trained I mean, yes, making it to and onto the potty in time, able to get clothes up and down on their own. Wiping took a little longer, but it was so much less work AND STRESS than running them to the potty every hour or worrying about constipation from withholding/accidents/etc. my friends dealt with. Really.

I'd like your DCP. And let's face it, she probably doesn't have time to run every kid to the potty every hour, or to drop everything and clean constant accidents, so her policy seems fair for a daycare situation.

[MJB]

I have 2 boys who both potty trained fairly easily around 20-21 mos. without accidents. I expect my third to be out of diapers by 2, also. I think there is a window of opportunity around 18-24 mos. that, if missed, leads to kids who are in diapers until 3+.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Perhaps she was misunderstood?

The asst director at my DCP, who is also the "teacher" in my DS1s "toddler Room" has been there for 20 years. She told me about 75% of boys are trained around 3. Now whether she meant they are DONE at 3, or start at 3, or still in the middle of training at 3, I dont know. She didnt elaborate. But I take her advice very seriously, since shes been doing this a very long time. She has succesfully helped train hundreds of kids. I figure she must be doing something right.

ETA, I started trying with DS1 when he was 17-18 months. The kid has just not been interested. And habitually will take 2 steps forward, 1 step back. PERIOD.

[RunningMomTegan]

My DCP makes the potty available before all diaper changes to the "older" kids in my son's class. At 21 months, he's the only one who "gets it". He loves to try and make "bubbles" in the potty. I think it's great. He'll decide when he's ready, but it's there if he wants to try.

I think it's appropriate to make it available, but to keep realistic expectations. It sounds like she has realistic expectations, but isn't making it an option.

[MeepyCat]

There's a lot of individual variation between kids. In daycare situations, what I want is to know that caregivers won't push the potty before the kids are ready and will be willing to deal with potty learning when kids are interested. IF what she means by her statement is "I'm not worried about your child's level of interest, which seems appropriate to me, and I'm dealing with whatever pottying and diapering strategies seem to work best," then it's fine.

[JBaxter]

EVERY boy in my family were out of diapers before 2 1/2. I couldnt imagine changing a diaper on a 3 yr old. Mine were in preschool at that age. I would let your DCP know that you will be starting earlier than that.

[MissE]

Originally Posted by *jeanine*

My ds was potty trained (daytime) by 2y 3m. He pretty much did it himself. We just had a potty available for him. No books, no rewards, etc. And he was in sposies, too, which is supposed to make them learn later.

I had to check wether I had written this or not LOL. DS did exactly the same thing. At 27 months from one day to the other he went potty, no rewards, toys, treats etc..it just kinda happened.

[tankgirl73]

BUT, PL before a child has the manual dexterity to always get to the potty on his own, on time, and get his clothing off in time and get on the potty in time seems much more about training the adult to be hyper-vigilant and to run said child to the potty on time than about actually training the child. IMO.

I used to think the same way. That it was "parent-training" more than child training.

But then I had a few realizations. Is it "parent-training" if, before they're able to get themselves a slice of bread out of the pantry, toast it, get a knife, butter it, get a glass, pour themselves a glass of milk, and wash the dishes when they're done, we watch them for signs that they're hungry and help them get something to eat?

Is it "parent-training" if, before they're able to change into their pajamas by themselves, brush their own teeth, tuck themselves in and fall asleep on their own before they're overtired, we watch for signs of them getting sleepy and help them go to bed?

From the moment they're born, as parents we watch for signs that they need our help with something they're not able to do yet, and we help them. As they get older, they gradually take over more and more of the processes themselves. It's not 'parent-training' to be vigilant about when our babies are too hot, or need the boob, or need a cuddle, or need space... why is it so often called "parent-training" when we're vigilant about when they need to pee?

I've also come to realize that the ability to dress or undress oneself in modern, western clothing, is completely unrelated to the ability to control one's elimination. Early humans did not have snaps, buttons, zippers, elastics, and multiple layers of undies+pants to work through. There's no evolutionary connection between the dexterity to dress oneself and the muscular sphincter control and the awareness thereof.

Once I realized that, it was a no-brainer for me. The choice is to wait until the child has that dexterity, at which point they're quite thoroughly "diaper-trained", and so you also have to wait until they have complete willful self-motivation to WANT to use the potty instead, in the meantime allowing them to continually pee in their clothes (diapers are just absorbent clothes) and walk around with portable toilets, sitting in their own waste... Or, help them with the dressing tasks while they're young, and spare yourself the trouble of diapers, toddlers resistant to being changed, poop messes smeared all over their privates... and just giving them the respect to not have to pee in their own clothes.

Oh, I'm not trying to be all judgmental on those who choose the first option. My first son was trained that way, wasn't 'finished' till he was good and four... I thought there HAD to be something wrong with that paradigm.

I didn't realize that kids were born with an instinct to eliminate that can be perceived and developed, and if ignored or just left to pee in diapers, their instinct will understand that diapers are where they are "supposed" to pee, thus, "diaper-trained". Having to change from that, to peeing in a toilet, after several years, is a life-altering experience. Just think about what it feels like to pee in the open air, compared with peeing in clothes pressed against your body. VERY different, very strange. So it's not surprising that since our society became disposable-diaper-dependent, the age of potty training has steadily gone up, and up, and up.

Of course, there's no real long-term harm in waiting. Kids by the age of 6 or so pretty universally are peeing in toilets, no matter how you've approached it. I just see so many parents frustrated and not understanding why their kids just aren't showing any interest and they're pushing 3, 4 years old. You just have to understand that if you've told them their whole lives to just pee in a diaper whenever they need to (no motivation to hold it, or control it, or even pay attention to it), then there's a good chance that it will be very difficult for them to change that habit. Sometimes you get lucky and you get that kid who suddenly decides, at age 27mo, to go to the potty. Other times, you're not so lucky -- like I was with my son!

Anyway. This is much longer than I'd intended, but I had to respond to that comment. As I said, I used to believe it myself. But then after my son, I tried EC with my daughter, and that cemented the understanding for me of "how it works". The "hyper-vigilance" was no more than with any other kind of parental vigilance, and in fact it gave me another option, another tool, for figuring out what was going on when she was being fussy - "is she hungry? Is she sick? Is she tired? Is she hurt? Does she have to pee?"

And contrary to the common misperception that EC is 'parent-training', she was most definitely being "trained" along at the same time. Nearly ALL forms of child "training" -- when they learn a new skill -- first involves the parent helping them to do it, sometimes almost completely doing it for them. As they figure out the patterns and the steps for themselves, they become "trained". As my daughter grew into toddlerhood, she started taking more control of the process, and instead of me watching for subtle cues and timing, she started TELLING me "I need to pee", or she'd run to the toilet herself.

"Training" a child simply means having them become accustomed to a particular habit, a particular way of doing things. It often means practicing the habit over and over, with a parent's help and guidance until they are able to do it by themselves. Responding to a child's need to pee by taking them to the bathroom is no more "parent training" than is taking out your boob when responding to their need to nurse!

Anyway... Feel free to potty-train your child in whatever way works best for your family, but please don't criticize early potty-folks by saying we're "parent-trained". Babies DO have the ability to control their elimination long before they have the ability to undress themselves, so why criticize those of us who choose to not continue to make them wear diapers? I actually found helping her to potty LESS work than dealing with diapers (I've done it both ways so I can compare), certainly much less cleanup, less laundry, less garbage... and I also got a happy girl with loads of self-assurance and confidence.

(FWIW, my daughter was completely independent in the bathroom -- going on her own initiative, undressing, wiping her bottom, washing her hands, and flushing, WELL before age 3, more like 2.5... )

So yeah, to the original poster... the 'magic' number 3 comes from studies that show that the AVERAGE age for potty-training these days has become 3 years old, which is much higher than it was before disposable diapers were commonplace. Notice that 3 is AVERAGE, not a MINIMUM. It means lots of kids are trained at 2, and lots at 4. And those 2yo are almost exclusively trained the 'usual' way, we EC'ers are still a slim minority. Waiting until they're 3 before even CONSIDERING potty-training is IMO just asking for it to be drawn out to age 4 -- the longer they're diaper-trained, the harder it is to change the habit. There seem to be windows of opportunity, around 18mo is one, around 2 years is another. If you miss those, odds are you will have to wait until they're over 3. Like I said, either way they'll be fine in the long run, it's not something worth STRESSING over. But yeah, 3 is NOT a minimum, it's the current average.