Do you have to have meetings during school?

[StephandOwen]

We've been trying to set up a meeting with the school over ds's behavior issues for a couple weeks. Right now they are basically telling us that we can meet at 7:15am (which we've tried before and means that it's at least 7:30 before everyone is in the room), 8:40am or 10:30am (those 2 are the teachers breaks during the day so they're like 30 minutes long). The problem is that I work or go to school. Every single day. I need to be at work or school at 8am, so need to leave ds's school by 7:45. 15 minutes is not even close to long enough to discuss what we need to.

I gave in and agreed to a 7:15 meeting next week on Monday (and am hoping my boss is okay with me being an hour or so late to work... I'll know tomorrow) to discuss some other things (pragmatic assessment results) but I cannot do that twice, ya know? I kinda need my job!

We've told them that we can meet any day after school, but they are saying that doesn't work for them. We told them we can meet anytime in the evening or weekends (hehe.... grasping at straws there) but they laugh and say they can't meet then because "everyone has personal stuff to do". Oh, I just sent an email telling them if they want to meet at 6:30am that should give us enough time to get through everything before 7:45 when I have to leave.

What the heck?? They can't seriously force me to have meetings just during school hours... can they?

[2boyzmama]

I'm wondering the same thing. I also work, and I work 20 minutes from the school, so for me to go to the school for an hour-long meeting, it's really almost 2 hours. I'm already taking off a lot of time for all his appts and illnesses!! Thankfully I have a really flexible job and an accommodating boss, but still...I worry.

SO...I don't know! I'm considering asking for a late-afternoon appt next time, that way I can go to work early and get off early then go to the meeting.

[KCMichigan]

It may vary, but in our area 90% of meetings were held during school hours.


Several reasons:

1.Teachers are not required to be at the school past the written school hours + the contractual times written before and after the students arrive (this is the biggest issue).
2. Specialists (OT/PT/Speech/etc) that may be involved often are not available outside of school hours and may only be in the area on certain days.
3. Building space is often used for other events before/after school.
4. Childcare for students is difficult for parents if it is not during school hours.


That said, we often would hold IEPs (quick ones that did not involve 'extra ' staff--OT/PT/etc) before school or after school. We did it as a professional courtesy to our working parents (they were usually at 7-8 am or from 4-5 pm) BUT all parties had to be available around their own personal lives so it often took a while to schedule.

I think the 30 minutes during daytime teacher planning time is NOT reasonable, especially if you are doing an IEP. The districts do this in order to avoid paying a substitute teacher. I would see if they have a cluster of IEPs (therefore sub coverage) that you could meet before or after when the teachers/staff may have more time to talk.

Could you talk with just a few people early in the am or right after school? (teacher/Principal??)

It is hard and I sympathize. I know some districts 'paid' teachers and staff to stay after hours (although many teachers work in their classrooms in the afternoon w/o pay or take home work), but not our area.

[Momily]

I'm a special educator, and I've also been a single parent of a child with special needs (still a parent, but he seems to have outgrown the needs), and I'm going to go out on a limb and say, yes, the meetings probably do need to happen during the school day the majority of the time.

I know it's a hardship for parents, and I feel bad when I ask it, but I have a caseload of about 20 kids that I work with to varying degrees (I'm only case manager of 2, the rest all have other special educators as well). I've also got 40 other kids in the two classes where I'm the lead special educator and will be invited in to any PT conferences etc . . . where there are concerns about children. On average, I'd say that I attend 3 - 4 parent meetings of some kind or another during the week.

Every so often something will come up where I feel so strongly that we need to meet, that I'll do it on a weekend or an early morning or late evening. Usually that's when there's really extenuating situations (e.g. child is returning from psychiatric hospitalization, this is the 20th time we've met on this kid this year and parent's job is on the line, etc . . . ). On those occasions the person making the biggest sacrifice is my own child, because it means that I'm begging a friend to let him sleep over (so he can ride to school with them) which means 2 sleep deprived kids for the rest of the week, or I'm paying out of pocket for childcare, or my child is spending hours playing alone in the empty classroom next door to where we're meeting, and is getting home at 8 p.m. without homework started or dinner eaten. In addition, if I stay longer than the 9 1/2 hours I usually spend at work I'll need to pay for dog daycare, which isn't cheap. As I said, there are times when I'm willing to do this, but generally that's an emergency, not adding goals to an IEP. If I consented to meetings being scheduled outside of school hours every time a working parent asked (I'd say 80% of my kids don't have SAHPs) I'd be doing that to him 2 or 3 times a week, and that's just not fair to him, or to me.

I get that it's hard. I'm sorry that it's hard. I'm a teacher who tries her best to go above and beyond every single day. My parents have my home phone number, I respond to emails, I get paperwork out in advance and you can call me at home on the weekends and I'll go through it line by line with you so that our meeting can be brief. However, the one thing I ask is that meetings be scheduled so that they don't interfere with my ability to get my child to school on time, well rested, help him with his homework, and spend some time together in the evenings.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by Momily

Every so often something will come up where I feel so strongly that we need to meet, that I'll do it on a weekend or an early morning or late evening. Usually that's when there's really extenuating situations (e.g. child is returning from psychiatric hospitalization, this is the 20th time we've met on this kid this year and parent's job is on the line, etc . . . ).

This is pretty close to the case here. We've had no less than 12 meetings since August (and I'd guess if you count all the informal ones we'd be closer to 30). I have a very nice, understanding boss. But the truth is- my job *is* on the line. As nice as she is, I still have a job to do (and I work in a daycare so if I'm constantly coming late or leaving early that puts other children at risk of not being supervised properly because we're shorthanded.... and puts my boss at risk if the state were to come in and see that). Every other meeting I have done it either right before school (7:15, which we've done twice and neither time worked well) or during school (with me missing work). They have called me dozens of times while I'm at work to come to the school ASAP for a "meeting" (basically when ds gets out of hand and they don't know what to do). This is the first time I've put my foot down and that's only because it pissed me off that his teacher said she couldn't do any after school times this week or all of next... yet she's quick to b*tch about how bad ds's behavior has gotten

This is not just adding goals to an IEP (*that* meeting I did agree to have next monday morning, forcing me to be at least an hour late to work again). This is dealing with violence that is getting so out of control that nobody knows what to do. He's throwing desks, punching other kids and adults, throwing chairs, pencils, punching walls, running away (he's a runner and he won't stop when he gets to the doors of the school). This is serious and other kids are paying the price for it. If it is not stopped then I have no doubt either Owen or another person will be seriously injured.

DS's teacher is the one not willing to meet after school.... which I could understand if she had kids to get to. But she doesn't. Her child is grown now. I know a couple days a week she has therapy after school (she has an injured back) but there is no reason for her to basically say for the next 2 weeks she can't have a meeting. She gave us 2 options- both were during the school day and both were 30 minutes long (20 minutes once you take out time for her to get to the meeting room and time to leave early to get back to her room). I'm sorry, but 20 minutes isn't going to cut it.

ETA- it's actually been over a week since we requested a meeting so it will be 3 full weeks that ds's teacher has refused to find time for a meeting. She also has parent teacher conferences coming up, and she wanted us to just skip it and she wants to go over that stuff at this imaginary meeting that she can't even find time for. Yet she thinks she'll get to the other stuff too. Huh.

[Momily]

Steph,

I'm sorry this is so hard right now. I did misread your OP, and I can't honestly say whether I'd make an exception to my no meetings outside of school hours policy for you -- as I said I do make those exceptions, but it's something I need to think long and hard about.

A few thoughts

1) From reading your other post, this sounds like it needs to be an official IEP meeting, with whatever plan you put in place carrying the legal weight of a signed IEP. For that you need the whole team present -- it really doesn't sound like a teacher/parent meeting is going to be the solution. Is the rest of the team available to meet afterschool? I'd find that out before I gave all the blame to one teacher.

2) I think you probably need to prioritize. Adding pragmatic language goals is something that can be done largely over the phone/email (google docs is actually a great way to do this) with a quick signature when you drop him off one day. This is a much bigger deal. If you can make one 7:15 meeting this month, I think it needs to be this one, and not the other. Given that, I'd reschedule the other meeting.

3) I'm assuming you don't work for a childcare chain, or a center that's part of a larger organization, which means that FMLA doesn't apply to you. If that's true, then I think you need to have your boss write you a note stating that you will be fired if you miss work again for a meeting -- obviously only if that's true, I think you need to find that out.

I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it's got to be incredibly hard.

[StephandOwen]

To make it easier, I'll just write in a different color in your post

Originally Posted by Momily

Steph,

I'm sorry this is so hard right now. I did misread your OP, and I can't honestly say whether I'd make an exception to my no meetings outside of school hours policy for you -- as I said I do make those exceptions, but it's something I need to think long and hard about.

A few thoughts

1) From reading your other post, this sounds like it needs to be an official IEP meeting, with whatever plan you put in place carrying the legal weight of a signed IEP. For that you need the whole team present -- it really doesn't sound like a teacher/parent meeting is going to be the solution. Is the rest of the team available to meet afterschool? I'd find that out before I gave all the blame to one teacher. I agree. I was told by the coordinator that we would be able to get a quicker meeting if it's not an ARC/IEP meeting. The goal is to get a meeting ASAP. Anything that's discussed in the informal meeting we can just have a quick meeting (15 minutes before school) with the whole team to write it up and sign. The meeting we're trying to get would be us, the teacher, the special ed teacher, the principal, and at least one of the 2 autism specialists for the district are trying to come. There's been emails going around all day between all of these people and the email from his teacher is the only one with such restrictive times. Everyone else is willing to meet after school.

2) I think you probably need to prioritize. Adding pragmatic language goals is something that can be done largely over the phone/email (google docs is actually a great way to do this) with a quick signature when you drop him off one day. This is a much bigger deal. If you can make one 7:15 meeting this month, I think it needs to be this one, and not the other. Given that, I'd reschedule the other meeting. Again, I agree. And if it were up to me then Monday morning's meeting would be for the behavior stuff. But the pragmatic stuff is on a timeline (they had whatever number of school days to get the assessments done and get a meeting in.... the last day for that is Tuesday. I don't know the legalities of missing that deadline). If we could just do it all in one morning I'd be even more thrilled (I would just ask my boss for the whole day off) but they aren't willing to do that because they would have to hire a sub teacher for ds's room (since his teacher would be in the meeting with us). It's all about the money, isn't it?

3) I'm assuming you don't work for a childcare chain, or a center that's part of a larger organization, which means that FMLA doesn't apply to you. If that's true, then I think you need to have your boss write you a note stating that you will be fired if you miss work again for a meeting -- obviously only if that's true, I think you need to find that out. You're right, I don't work for a large chain or anything. Just a family owned daycare (I've been there for almost 2 1/2 years). But that's a good idea. I shouldn't *have* to resort to giving the school a letter saying I'll be fired, but if it comes down to it. To be honest, my boss has been so wonderful for the past 2 years with all this (ds was in preschool last year at the same school he's at right now). When they call from the school telling me I need to get there ASAP because they can't deal with him, my boss lets me. I've been late to work more times than I can count. I've had to leave early more times than I care to remember. Honestly, I'm kinda surprised I still have a job. I am very lucky, especially in this economy, and considering my boss currently has a huge stack of applications on her desk. She could replace me in a heartbeat.

I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it's got to be incredibly hard.

Thanks for all your thoughts!

[queencarr]

Would a conference call by phone be an option. It could avoid the everybody get to the room time delay, maybe. We were lucky that our school was great with making time. I had unexpected surgery and was in the hospital when my oldest ds had his first IEP going from early intervention to PPCD. They held the meeting at the school and dh attended, then came to the hospital, explained the highlights, and had me sign, too.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by queencarr

Would a conference call by phone be an option. It could avoid the everybody get to the room time delay, maybe. We were lucky that our school was great with making time. I had unexpected surgery and was in the hospital when my oldest ds had his first IEP going from early intervention to PPCD. They held the meeting at the school and dh attended, then came to the hospital, explained the highlights, and had me sign, too.

DP and I were just talking about this option. I could do a conference call anytime between noon and 2 on Mon/Wed/Fri (that's naptime at the daycare so I have flexible time right then and my boss wouldn't mind if I did the call from work). Tues/Thurs I could make time and just miss some class, as long as I didn't have a test. DP can go to the meeting and I could be on the phone and then I could just sign the papers when I pick up ds that day (dp can't sign legal stuff because he's not ds's bio-dad). I will throw that out to the team, but I have a feeling they aren't going to do it because it's not during the teachers 30 minute planning time (those are in the morning). But it can't hurt to offer, right? Thanks!!

[queencarr]

Definitely worth a try! Hope that you can figure something out. Is lunch in the classroom or supervising kids, otherwise, could they do a call or even informal meeting during their lunch time?

[Momily]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

DP and I were just talking about this option. I could do a conference call anytime between noon and 2 on Mon/Wed/Fri (that's naptime at the daycare so I have flexible time right then and my boss wouldn't mind if I did the call from work). Tues/Thurs I could make time and just miss some class, as long as I didn't have a test. DP can go to the meeting and I could be on the phone and then I could just sign the papers when I pick up ds that day (dp can't sign legal stuff because he's not ds's bio-dad). I will throw that out to the team, but I have a feeling they aren't going to do it because it's not during the teachers 30 minute planning time (those are in the morning). But it can't hurt to offer, right? Thanks!!

Honestly, given what you've said about this teacher's problem solving abilities, I think it's more important that YOU be at the meeting than that she is (if it was otherwise, I'd say you're both equally important given that you can offer insight into Owen, and she into what's going on).

If you hold the meeting afterschool, sans teacher, could his aide be there? If so is he a reliable reporter on what happens in the classroom? Are there others like a special educator who are there often enough to report?

I think the other option is to say that you want Monday to be about behavior. If they counter with the fact that there's a compliance deadline, then hold firm. The compliance deadline is their problem, not yours. They should work with you, if they expect you to work with them.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by queencarr

Definitely worth a try! Hope that you can figure something out. Is lunch in the classroom or supervising kids, otherwise, could they do a call or even informal meeting during their lunch time?

The teacher does not supervise lunch (in the lunchroom). The assistant teacher and ds's para supervise lunch. The 10:40 break (I think I wrote 10:30 in another post, but it's really 10:40) is actually the lunch period (10:40-11:10 is ds's lunch). But, again, 10:40 is too early for me to do a conference call when I'm at work. That's right in the middle of my busy period (cleaning the room, feeding the kids lunch (at 11) then doing potty time, clean up and getting beds ready for naptime at noon). I would probably be able to do it on a Tues/Thurs (again, I'd just miss some of my class but most of my teachers are fairly understanding).

ETA- the only problem that I see with it is that 25-30 minutes is not going to be long enough to discuss all of it. We've been down this road before where they call off a meeting because it's at the 30 minute mark but nothing has really been accomplished. Hence where we are right now.... 6 months into the school year and they still don't know how to deal with him.

[wytchywoman]

Have they conducted the FBA yet? Are you meeting to get those results or is this more of a "crisis" meeting? I am a special educator and I rarely meet during school hours. It's usually after the kids get out as I am busy in the classroom when school is in session. It really seems like you are getting stonewalled here. What reaction would you get if you contacted the principal or brought in the assistance of an advocate? I'd stick to your guns on this one if I was you, and go over her head if need be. You've had some pretty major drama this year and the teacher doesn't really seem too invested in getting it worked out. If she was she'd be willing to meet for an hour after school one freaking time.
Also, all these trips to the school when Owen misbehaves are eyebrow raising to me. First off it seems like it would be slightly rewarding to him. I know you've mentioned that he's straightened his act out right quick when you've shown up at the school, but he still gets to see everyone run in circles and then call Mom down to the school when he decides to snap his fingers and run the show by misbehaving. Obviously it's ineffective anyway. I've also heard of schools calling parents and requesting that they take the student "home for the day" sometimes. Most SN parents don't realize that a school can only suspend a child with an IEP for 10 days in a school year, and asking you to remove him from school is in essence a suspension. I am just appalled that a school is asking you to come get him because they don't know what to do with him. That's really unacceptable.

[StephandOwen]

Yes, they have done an FBA. And we had some stuff set up with that.... that the school is not following. This is more of a "crisis meeting", because every day it just gets worse and worse.

Sadly, both dp and I have sat down and talked to the principal (separately) within the past 1 1/2 weeks. When dp sat down and talked to her she had NO IDEA they were having that kind of trouble with ds. She was under the impression everything was going great. So they are quick to tell ME that ds is throwing desks/chairs around, hitting people, etc but they aren't even telling the principal?? I was pissed at that and sat down and talked to her a couple days later. She IS involved now (which is scary that things still aren't moving quickly). I am thinking it's time to go over their heads now.

And you are right on with the rewarding by me going to the school. And that's exactly what I told them when the para called me and told me ds was having a really bad day about a month ago. I could hear ds in the background asking the para "are you calling my mama? Is she going to come see me?" and not in a sad, pitiful voice either He knows that if he gets to a certain point then they'll call me so every day he pushes the envelope a little farther.

As for the 10 day thing.... I'm a mean mom and never take him home when they call me to the school I know that trick and I am not falling for it. He's not sick? Then keep him at school. I have also told them during one of his "fun" moments that if they don't know how to handle him then they need to call in the resource specialists to come to the classroom. But that would mean admitting that they aren't the smartest thing ever.... and they would never do that

[pixiekisses]

Man, that sucks.
Here, all meetings with the school are after school time, evenings/nights.
We've even done Skype meetings to not have to go to school physically. (We all think that's fine sometimes, depending on what the issues are.)

[StephandOwen]

Thanks everyone! We finally got a meeting scheduled- next Tuesday morning at 6:45. This will give about an hour before I need to leave (and it's a school day for me so if I'm a little late it's okay). We won't have everyone there, but we'll have some people (DP and myself, ds's regular teacher, the coordinator, the resource specialist and the principal).

[logan&jordansmommy]

I know you have it figured out but wanted to add that I have after school meetings all the time. Actually one of my son's teachers prefers them.

[CarrieMF]

We won't have everyone there, but we'll have some people (DP and myself, ds's regular teacher, the coordinator, the resource specialist and the principal).

DS's para needs to be there too.

I'm a para & attend all meetings, sometimes outside of my paid time(though I push to get paid for that). the para that takes over in the afternoon is at all meetings too. It's pointless for them to have a meeting without the paras there. The meetings are all during school hours. In the IEP meeting on Friday they did the parent/teacher interview at the same time. We were in there for 45minutes. In the original IEP meeting in the fall we were there for 2.5 hours.

I would push the principal to get the teacher to agree to the after school meetings, especially since she is the only hold out & it works for everyone else. It may not work but the principal should be able to find a way to get her to agree to it.

I'm surprised at the para calling you so often about his behaviour. If I called the mom every time my guy wouldn't do anything, fought me on anything, etc he'd never be there.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

DS's para needs to be there too.

He is invited, but I don't know if he'll be there. I agree that he NEEDS to be there, but apparently they are refusing to pay him for time outside of his contracted hours (7:15-2:45). I can't really blame him for not wanting to get up that early and come in without even getting paid (he lives about an hour away from the school too so a 6:45 meeting means getting up pretty early). He's not been at any meetings this year, except one quick one on the second day of school (but that was because of an injury ds sustained on the first day of school while in the para's care).

[SoCaliMommy]

That sounds like they aren't working around everyone's schedule at all, since that doesn't sound very convenient for everyone.

We had a meeting set for 2:45 to go over the results of the evaluation the school has done on my daughter but it ended up not working for everyone and was then asked if 8am on a totally different day works. We went from meeting on march 8th to now meeting on march 17th.