Honeymoon is over

[daisymama12]

We adopted a lab mix 10 days ago, and he was so calm and good at first, and I knew there would be changes, and sure enough, they're happening.

1. He is not too bad on the leash, but all bets are off if he sees a dog close by. He starts pulling hard. I am trying to re-direct, but the woman at our dog-training course advised me to get a gentle leader. Will buy one tomorrow and make sure it is fitted correctly.

2. The woman at the training said he looked like he has pitbull in him, which freaked me out a little bit. I was told he was a lab mix, probably with shepherd and who knows what. He is 48 pounds, and thin, but I guess his head is wide. As I said, it freaked me out a little, just because of all the hype about pits. He really looks mostly lab-ish to me, webbed feet and all. I know they can be dog aggressive, and that concerns me.

3. He is VERY excited around other dogs. Despite having a glowing behavioural evaluation from the SPCA, I would say he's both an adolescent and poorly socialized. In obedience class, he really wanted to get to the other dogs, and barked and whined some of the time. He did settle down at some poitns, which gives me hope. After smelling them, he wanted to play, or engage, and when he couldn't, he was whining, & agitated.
He's played with other dogs twice, and it went ok, but before the class, he got all worked up milling with the other dogs, barking, wanting to go at it.

I think this can be worked on, through exposure, but I hesitate to go to dog runs, aren't they kind of free for alls? Are there any rules or resources I can look at to socialize him at dog runs? Also, I am still working on basic commands, like sit, down, and walking on leash - have not worked on recall yet. Is it ok for me to take him to a dog run without really good recall?

So many questions!
thanks in advance...

Oh, and he is very quiet and calm at home, for now, anyway. He is affectionate and pretty mellow, doesn't chase the kids when they run, and listens well. He rides well in the car. He waits for his food, he sits for his leash to be put on, etc.

While I should be so excited about this pup, I'm now feeling overwhelmed, and I have to admit, most of all because of the potential that he has pitbull in him. Can this still work? I am willing to put in time training, but I hope I haven't done something foolish by adopting a dog with pb in his lineage.

[greenmagick]

First off...pitbulls are great dogs so dont worry about that. Dog aggression can happen in any breed and it can be modified as well if that if that is what you are worried about. And in a mix its a total gamble as to what you are getting so it really doesnt affect how you would train or act around him.

I would not take him to play with a bunch of other dogs yet....that can happen down the road when you guys are more comfortable with each other and you can read him better. Being in class is a great start...have your trainer help your read his body language.

There is a book called click to calm that is for dog aggressive dogs...I realize your pup isnt but he sounds to be overly excited...I think the exercises in there would still be very beneficial. Exposure will help, but it needs to be controlled and he needs to learn to be calm before he can play. A hyped up dog can start a fight as it puts other dogs on the defense sometimes.

[daisymama12]

Originally Posted by greenmagick

First off...pitbulls are great dogs so dont worry about that. Dog aggression can happen in any breed and it can be modified as well if that if that is what you are worried about. And in a mix its a total gamble as to what you are getting so it really doesnt affect how you would train or act around him.

I would not take him to play with a bunch of other dogs yet....that can happen down the road when you guys are more comfortable with each other and you can read him better. Being in class is a great start...have your trainer help your read his body language.

There is a book called click to calm that is for dog aggressive dogs...I realize your pup isnt but he sounds to be overly excited...I think the exercises in there would still be very beneficial. Exposure will help, but it needs to be controlled and he needs to learn to be calm before he can play. A hyped up dog can start a fight as it puts other dogs on the defense sometimes.

Thanks for your post greenmagick, it is very reassuring, re. his breed, or potential breed.
I am going to order that book today.

Oh, and the other thing that he does that concerns me is that his hackles go up a lot on walks. It's happening less now, even within the 10 days we've had him, but it's at trucks, or dogs, or people walking by, today it was at a mum crouched down with her toddler.

The trainer told me (confirming what I read) that it could mean a number of things, including anxiety, curiosity, fear or aggression, and I have to read the rest of his body language. In the case of meeting other dogs, it starts with hackles up, then when he gets closer, he starts wagging his tail. I've been redirecting him.

How do I socialize him without going to dog runs? Or should exposure/socialization come later, is that what you mean?

[Ola_]

I agree with greenmagick to not worry about potential pitbull in his heritage. Honestly it's very easy to look like a pit without actually having any in you. A friend of mine has a mix and they actually know who both of his parents were - the mom was a lab and the dad was a boxer. Here's his picture: link - he gets called a pitbull a lot. Going by how the dog looks just doesn't give you the full story.

My Chaos girl did the exact thing that you describe shortly after we got her. In her case she was also an adolescent (around 8-10 months when this started) and she was not getting enough interaction with other dogs. Because of this each time she saw another dog she would get over-excited. I would pull her away, and that would just get her more interested and she'd get even more excited the next time. Eventually she was jumping and spinning at the end of her leash when she saw a dog.

Personally I would start greeting other dogs that you encounter (as long as they don't seem aggressive or out of control). One good exercise we did in training class is to have the dog sit beside you, ask him to make eye contact (teach a command for this, we used the word "look", let me know if you want some tips for this), and then release him to greet the other dog. Keep it short so they don't get over-excited and then continue on your walk. I wouldn't go to the dog park for now until you have a very good recall around distractions. Another option to socialize would be with someone from your dog training class - perhaps you could meet up at another time?

[ShadowMoon]

Any breed can be dog aggressive, so don't worry too much about what the dog is mixed with. I have a staffordshire/american pit bull terrior mix and she is wonderful around all animals. My best friend has a lab/boxer mix that can be extremely dog aggressive and cannot be off leash around dogs he hasn't met and accepted.

It definitely sounds like he needs a lot of exercise. I would also continue with obedience training to get the basics down. My dog gets very excited when she sees other dogs because she can't wait to play. Her excitability and general hyper personality has definitely decreased with age, (she is 5), proper exercise, and continuous socialization with other dogs.

The younger a dog is exposed to other dogs and different situations, the better. You also need to keep up on it and it is also not guaranteed that your pup will thrive in all social settings. I stay away from dog parks/runs completely and multi-dog settings if I don't know all of them. I would do this even if I didn't have a pitbull companion because you can never be sure about other dogs you don't know.

Do you know his age or what his previous situation was? It sounds like he is anxious and it's definitely something you can work through with the right trainer or behavior specialist. Good luck, and he sounds like a sweet dog overall.

[daisymama12]

Thanks for the advice about his lineage, I think he's lovely, it's just that hearing the words pitbull made me look at him differently, and it scared me. I have to get those thoughts out of my mind, and look at his behaviour, which all things considered, is pretty good for a dog we've only had 11 days.

The SPCA said he was 9 months old, but I would venture a little older. His back teeth have some yellowing on them, and he is very calm at home. Even when my boys are running around, he doesn't try to get in the action. My old dog would have gone berserk over that kind of stuff, even in his old age. So, I would say between 1 and 2? Or a very calm 9 months.

He was apparently found on the street, but it's obvious he has had training. He came walking pretty well, and last night and this morning was great using the method I learnt last night - walk 3 big steps back if the leash has tension in it. He really really gets it, which is encouraging. Today there was a dog across the street, and I kept up with our strategy, and his hackles didn't raise. He whined, and then I distracted him by making him sit. He did pretty well. I'm still going to get the gentle leader, I'm sure it can't hurt to have.

He also knows to sit for his leash to be put on, to wait for his food, etc. So I don't know his history, but I know someone trained him somewhat, but my guess is that he wasn't socialized enough.

How do I continue socialization without going to the dog park?

The one up the street from me is small, but there is often only one dog in there (often us!). What about asking the owner if their dog is friendly, if there is only one dog?

Do I just keep letting him greet dogs in the street and that's it until I know him better and have more control?

Thanks if you've read this far, I really want to make this situation a success for all of us.

[AkRotts]

Originally Posted by daisymama12

How do I continue socialization without going to the dog park?

The one up the street from me is small, but there is often only one dog in there (often us!). What about asking the owner if their dog is friendly, if there is only one dog?

Do I just keep letting him greet dogs in the street and that's it until I know him better and have more control?

I would NOT take your dog to a dog park. He will get better socialization in a class. I also wouldn't let him meet/greet dogs on the street. A lot of people think their dogs are *friendly* but they are actually clueless and you could be setting your dog up for disaster. My dogs are not allowed to come in contact with other dogs unless I know the owners.

I have Rottweilers and I am VERY protective of them. I know that if something were to happen between my dog and another, because mine is a Rottie he/she will automatically be blamed (totally unfair, but that's just how it is). My dogs are NOT dog aggressive and are frequently used to help others overcome dog aggressive issues, so they are definitely not the issue.

[daisymama12]

Originally Posted by AkRotts

I would NOT take your dog to a dog park. He will get better socialization in a class. I also wouldn't let him meet/greet dogs on the street. A lot of people think their dogs are *friendly* but they are actually clueless and you could be setting your dog up for disaster. My dogs are not allowed to come in contact with other dogs unless I know the owners.

In class, they don't really interact much. They are practicing their commands in a church basement. They see each other, but don't play.

If I don't meet and greet on the street, and don't go to the dog run, how will he get to know other dogs?

Should I be setting up playdates? I did that with a friend who has a 4 yr old dog, and she didn't want to play with my dog. Mine respected her, then tried again, etc. but I think he really wants to play, and I'd like to give him that opportunity.

I suppose I could ask the people in the class next week, but I'm so shy to do that! I guess I can do it if that's the best option.

Any suggestions?

[ShadowMoon]

I think playdates are a great idea, I do them often with friends.

I also do limited meet and greets when I'm out walking, etc. As long as both people have control over their dogs, both dogs have non-threatening body language and both dogs are on leads of some sort.

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by AkRotts

I also wouldn't let him meet/greet dogs on the street. A lot of people think their dogs are *friendly* but they are actually clueless and you could be setting your dog up for disaster.

I hear you on this, definitely. Personally I don't take anyone's word for it that their dog is friendly, I'd rather go by the dog's body language because that's more accurate in my experience. As long as the dog is not out of control, or stiff (including slowly wagging a high stiff tail), I am okay with approaching strange dogs.

Everyone sort of has to decide for themselves based on their comfort level, and to a certain extent based on their dog as well. For us, I think Mayhem would be just fine with not interacting with other dogs. Chaos however is my slightly reactive dog and it's a continuous effort to keep up her socialization. We very frequently "greet" other dogs on walks (one dog at a time, not multiples, that's too hectic for me). It works well to keep her mellow around other dogs, since we do it all the time it's not much of an event anymore. That is just what works for us.

[rhiOrion]

If the dog park is frequently empty, then I'd say that setting up a play date is a great idea.

In your dog's case I wouldn't take him to the dog park with lots of random dogs for a while because he is so other dog interested. I mean it more for his own safety. If another dog is acting really aggressive then you want to be able to call him back and have him listen. I don't think recall is the most important thing about the dog park in general, though... my dog is deaf, so obviously her recall isn't very good! But she also is more interested in playing by herself and running in big circles. If she was all over the other dogs, I'd feel differently.

If you have any friends with dogs who would go to the dog park with you, it would also be a great time to work on his recall, especially while he's distracted by the other dog.

You could also find someone to work with you outside of the dog park with both dogs on leashes. Maybe somebody from your class would be good for this. Practicing not pulling on the leash at the first sight of the other dog, etc.

[daisymama12]

An update

We just had a playdate with my friend's mothers golden mix (3.5 yrs old)!
My dog had his hackles up at the beginning, and peed right away, but his tail was wagging; anxiety & over-arousal?
After that, the hackles went down, and he followed the dog everywhere, trying to engage him in play at all times.

It went pretty well, all things considered. He was submissive when appropriate, but not afraid to initiate different kinds of play. I think he needs a lot of practice, but his attitude was good.
He's definitely eager, maybe over eager, but hopefully he will see other dogs as normal, and that high interest will subside over time.

We're meeting again tomorrow AM. Keep your fingers crossed that this dog will be a great canine citizen!

[ShadowMoon]

Good luck!

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by daisymama12

My dog had his hackles up at the beginning, and peed right away, but his tail was wagging; anxiety & over-arousal?

You mentioned wagging tail a couple of times now, so I just wanted to point something out. It's not necessarily a good sign, depending on how the tail is actually wagging. Soft, sweeping wags are relaxed, stiff and slow ones are very tense. Also the carriage of the tail matters - low is uncertain or even afraid while a high-up tail would indicate a very assertive attitude.

Of course this is dependent on how your dog naturally carries their tail. For example my greyhound has a hanging tail so for him tail down is neutral, tail halfway up is excited/tense, and slightly tucked under his body is unsure/scared. The difference between the neutral and scared is not that easy to see. My mixed breed has a tail that curls over her back, so that's her natural posture and when she is being assertive she pulls it up a little higher and holds it stiff, so it's not that easy to tell between the two if you don't know her. Don't mind me, I love reading doggie body language. But I think this stuff is very useful to observe both in your own dog, and in others that you encounter.

[daisymama12]

Interesting Ola! I am trying to be mindful of his body language.

I think he needs to build up his confidence, maybe through repeated exposure to other dogs in various situations. He played for an hour with the retriever mix, and it was great. He looked SO happy, mostly wrestling, taking turns being "on top".

Also, the gentle leader is helping ME. When we pass people on the sidewalk, I feel more confident in dealing with his anxiety, because I know I can handle him. I think my confidence eases his anxiety, too, if that makes sense. I don't think it's a permanent solution, but good for this transition time.