Is it stupid to go screen-free with an electronics obsessed Aspie?

[earthmama4]

I cannot take it anymore. His desire for either purchasing or using electronics in our house is the number one source of conflict in our home. I had the police here tonight because I would not allow him to have his Ipod and he was flipped out and started threatening me and his own life! His use of media has caused him to commit crimes, including stealing our CC # to fund online memberships, stealing his brothers video games to trade in for new ones he wants, and recently he started viewing sexually explicit material online (even after a very nice, respectful talk about why that is not ok here).

We have strict rules for computer, internet, and video game use, but he doesn't follow them or is constantly pushing the limits. As soon as I am not right there, he's off doing something he shouldn't! I am so tired of being the video game/internet police. WHERE IS IS WRITTEN THAT TEENS HAVE TO HAVE THESE THINGS NOWADAYS!!!! We are actually a Waldorf-inspired family. I don't WANT this stuff here. I caved in and let it be here because his counselor from day treatment said it would be pretty hard for me to motivate his behavior without incentives that are important to him. I get that, but ya know, the incentives are also the TRIGGERS for the very behaviors we are trying to eliminate! So its kind of a double-edged sword.

Our current counselor is supportive of the idea that maybe there is no gray with him and we might need to be black and white on this issue. Our counselor is familiar with, but not an expert on Aspergers and I just don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Everything I have read says you can't change a Aspie's obsession, you have to just go with it. But I can't anymore. Its making me insane. We are going to talk about it and counseling tomorrow and help him brainstorm some new hobbies, but he is sooo obsessed I seriously might have to hospitalize him if/when he learns no more Ipod/Xbox/Internet. Its like taking crack away from an addict.

[wytchywoman]

Perhaps you need to approach it from the viewpoint of taking things away until you see acceptable behavior and he can start earning them back for limited periods of time. A token economy system perhaps? Good behavior earns a chip that he can trade in for one hour of supervised electronics time. Poor choices earn him nothing or extra chores. Catching him viewing things that are inappropriate means an automatic suspension of computer priveleges for a certain amount of time. As for the credit card use, this may be hard core but I'd have either withheld an allowance or sold one of his possessions to pay me back for the money spent on the cc. Like I said, probably not very gentle discipline like but with things like that I'd have a very firm undesireable consequence take place.
I think maybe there might be a compromise in there somewhere....but I'de definitely make him earn those items. They are priveleges after all, and not necessities.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by wytchywoman

Perhaps you need to approach it from the viewpoint of taking things away until you see acceptable behavior and he can start earning them back for limited periods of time. A token economy system perhaps? Good behavior earns a chip that he can trade in for one hour of supervised electronics time. Poor choices earn him nothing or extra chores. Catching him viewing things that are inappropriate means an automatic suspension of computer priveleges for a certain amount of time.

This is what we do. Its constantly going back and forth, he loses it, he earns it back, he abuses it, he loses it, he earns it back. I have to check and make sure everything is in order with grades and homework and chores and whatnot so that he can have his 30 minutes of internet or video game time. The other night he wanted to play xbox and I checked his tracker and he had an assignment to do and so I told him he needed to do that first and he flipped. Called his teacher a B and threw his binder against the wall. He is so h***-bent on playing these things that anything that gets in the way becomes an object of his fury.

[karne]

I wonder if the electronics "do" anything for him? I know for some they function as a way to soothe, or regulate difficult emotional states.

[RiverTam]

Originally Posted by karne

I wonder if the electronics "do" anything for him? I know for some they function as a way to soothe, or regulate difficult emotional states.

I have a couple of friends who have ASDs and are pretty high-functioning. They love to socialize on line, because it allows them to have social relationships that aren't dependent on reading facial expressions, or body language, or on interpreting hidden meanings in verbal communication. Online, a person's intent and meaning has to be spelled out explicitly.

It's much easier for them to talk to people on-line.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by karne

I wonder if the electronics "do" anything for him? I know for some they function as a way to soothe, or regulate difficult emotional states.

I am sure they do. I think they are an escape for him. He is also extremely bright and easily bored. Its an easy solution. I get that. But its reached a really unhealthy level. He has no ability to regulate himself, and when *I* regulate him, I become a target of his rage. I can't be in that position anymore. We are doing everything we can to help him with medication and therapy, providing structure, alternatives, and its not working.

Originally Posted by RiverTam

I have a couple of friends who have ASDs and are pretty high-functioning. They love to socialize on line, because it allows them to have social relationships that aren't dependent on reading facial expressions, or body language, or on interpreting hidden meanings in verbal communication. Online, a person's intent and meaning has to be spelled out explicitly.

It's much easier for them to talk to people on-line.

I am hoping with help and therapy he will get to this point and be able to use technology to enhance and enrich his life. I can see where that would be of great benefit to him down the road when he can regulate himself better.

Well, we had our therapy appointment, and in the end, we made the decision to eliminate the electronics based on his chronic misuse of them and their triggering aggressive episodes. He freaked, I knew he would, but eventually came around it seemed. We gave him time to rant and rave and cry and whatever, and then when he started just repeating the same thing over and over the therapist told him "You have made that point, and we are not going to talk about that anymore." It took him a few minutes, but he did eventually "switch" and start thinking and brainstorming with us about new hobbies. He is interested in guitar and skateboarding. He is going to spend his b-day $ on fixing up a guitar he has and buying some wristguards so he can try skateboarding. He also wants some namebrand clothes. So we made some progress. I am sure the storm isn't over though. But I am hoping, though it seems harsh, that eliminating media will free him to explore other things and get some balance in his life, and some peace in our home.

[*~Danielle~*]

My son is 5yrs old and I can totally relate with you about his obsession with electronics being our number one conflict. I hate it too. He has not been diagnosed with anything, but I starting to clue in on certain behaviors and making links to asperger's. I don't know anything, except thank you for letting me know I am not alone in this. I'm trying the reward and earning thing with the electronics, but it is so hard when he just wants his games and they are more important to him than being kind to me.

[Kailey's mom]

I would let him keep at least one, how about the video games. I have Aspergers, and it's like we NEED something to zone into if that makes any sense to you. I'm saying the video games because at least you don't have to worry about the porn and you can censor what he plays to a point. He's going to freak, but if you stand firm he'll adjust.

[earthmama4]

Bad, bad, bad night. Police here again. He was ok for most the afternoon, but started ruminating on the issue just before dinner and was soon in full meltdown mode. Tantrums by 5' 7" 185 lb kids are not fun. I can't do this anymore!!!! I almost had him transported to our psych hospital, but the cops talked him down and he took his ativan and eventually zonked out. I talked to the crisis worker at the hospital who was very helpful, but since he was calm at that point they wouldn't take him. We are calling the psychiatrist in the morning and I think we are looking at inpatient...or at least back to day treatment. The crisis worker also mentioned group home. Are we really at that point? When do you get to the point that you say, hey, I can't take care of my kid anymore? When you are exhausted, walking on eggshells, wondering what this is doing to your other kids, having no energy for anyone or anything else, wondering how in the !@#@$ to get some peace and sanity? When you are afraid to be home alone with your child without your DH? When you can't set boundaries without all hell breaking loose? Well, then, yeah, I am probably there.

Thank you Kailey's mom for that insight. I just don't know. He pushes the boundaries on everything. Its not enough for him to just play and zone out, it has to be more and more, he will steal, beg, borrow, and plead to no end. And just FYI, the new systems have WiFi and I know moms whose teens have accessed porn through video game systems! I do understand he has a need to soothe himself, but he can't stop it at that, yk? There is more at play with him than just ASD though. Personality wise he is a very entitled, narcissistic thrill-seeking type kid. Its hard.

Danielle It started very young with us. I clearly don't have the answers on this, but I encourage you to do what you can while your child is young. We went about a year screen-free around that age and it was helpful for managing aggression, though he often got into other mischief during that time - dumping cosmetics and making a "potion", coloring on walls, etc. The impulse control is more of an issue when he isn't zoned out with media. That is why I have allowed it, its a tempting tool for me because at first glance it seems to make him more manageable. In the end though, its a trigger for aggressive behavior and conflict. I still wish I would have broke the addiction when he was young and more easily managed.

[mrsfru]

Mama,

Is "respite care" available in your area? That might be a way to *give you all a break* from each other and the situation, without having to hospitalize him or commit to a group home right this minute. He may also be able to be more rational w/another trusted adult, and that may help all of you as well--esp if the same respite care people were available on a regular basis. Then, he could develop a real relationship w/them.

GL!

(And thanks for posting this--my 4.5 yr old has a tentative dx of Asperger's, pending results of bloodwork and genetic screening to rule out some things--and we deal w/huge tantrums over screens, too!)

mrsfru

[*~Danielle~*]

Thanks, Earthmama, for the insight about trying to help my 5 yr old through this now and not wait. I do tend to use the electronics as a cruch for making things "easier" in the moment. I know I'm just avoiding the interaction and letting the electronics interact with Max for me. This is so hard.

I'm so sorry you had the police again. Hugs.

[wytchywoman]

I'm sorry earthmama I hope things improve quickly. Has a psychiatrist investigated the possibility of Bipolar or something else besides ASC? It does something like there might be some sort of co-existing condition.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by mrsfru

Mama,

Is "respite care" available in your area? That might be a way to *give you all a break* from each other and the situation, without having to hospitalize him or commit to a group home right this minute. He may also be able to be more rational w/another trusted adult, and that may help all of you as well--esp if the same respite care people were available on a regular basis. Then, he could develop a real relationship w/them.

I don't know, I'll ask the psych what my options are. Our insurance won't pay for anything related to autism right now (yes, you heard me right ) so I don't know. Our county has a "time-out" facility for juveniles staffed with counselors which he can go to for a few hours or even overnight, but the cop said they won't take him if he's violent or suicidal. He said this in front of DS too so now I fear that option is out now that DS knows the secret of avoiding it.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by wytchywoman

I'm sorry earthmama I hope things improve quickly. Has a psychiatrist investigated the possibility of Bipolar or something else besides ASC? It does something like there might be some sort of co-existing condition.

One psych dx him with Mood Disorder-NOS, which is like an atypical bipolar, about two years ago, but they dropped that dx after day treatment and all his evals there. His dx is Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Major Depressive Disorder, and Aspergers Syndrome. He is on a mood stabilizer, Abilify and two antidepressants. His psych wants him tested for ADHD because his organizational skills are so poor and was talking about adding a med for that. He has all the characteristics of Oppositional Defiant Disorder and I am sure would qualify for that dx. Our therapist sees some narcissistic personality traits, and unfortunately, that is not something you can medicate. We are addressing it through therapy, trying to get him to see the other person's perspective and have empathy, learn delayed gratification, putting others first, etc. A narcissistic personality plus Aspergers which makes it hard for him to connect anyway....its not a good combination. His good behavior is ALWAYS connected to getting something for himself, and when the payoff is removed, he loses it. He is cruel when he is angry too. Its not just the physical tantrums, its the emotional abuse I endure when he is angry that I can hardly take anymore. He pays attention when he is calm and picks up on things, then uses them against you when he is angry. TBH, he is like his bio-dad who is also narcissistic and abusive, and who knows, probably ASD too. We are addressing it through therapy but I am starting to lose hope that this is something we can change in him. Its just getting worse and worse through the years despite our best interventions.

ETA: I was wrong, they did not drop the Mood Disorder NOS dx. Its still on his discharge sheet. I missed it for some reason.

[philomom]

I'd talk to his psych about a treatment center where he can have some very extensive in-house testing. There are generally one or three in a city of any size. Your insurance should cover most of it. I know, it sounds cruel, but its a step above jail.

a) you get a week to ten days without him to rest and restore the rest of the family

b) your son will know that you are serious about this behavior.. that he cannot act this way without dire consequences

c)the testing may give you some further insight into how to help him

d) he won't have access to a lot of electronics while's he's there.. so he may come back and be appreciative of what he does own

e) if he is socially aware at all .. he'll meet kids who have no loving home waiting for them.. it might help him to see life more broadly

Good luck.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by earthmama4

His good behavior is ALWAYS connected to getting something for himself, and when the payoff is removed, he loses it. He is cruel when he is angry too.

Is this directed at other people as well? I'm very concerned as I read about him that he could become dangerous to others and end up in criminal trouble. I'm very sorry as I write this, but I think that you should consider what your options are long term, to keep him from being a danger to himself or others, such as a group home. It might not be time to take such a drastic action yet, but but it seems worth looking into and beginning to make plans for the future. Where would he be safest? Where would he be less likely to do something that could land him in court, and possibly prison?

I'm very sorry and I mean this post compassionately, both for him as a human being and for you as his mother.

[joyluc]

I am so sorry, couldn't read without posting. What a hard situation to have the crisis worker suggest a group home. But you have to think about what your whole family needs. And maybe your DS would benefit from a place that would have a lot of structure and clinical staff? My DS has major depression with anxiety but no Aspergers, he can get really focused on not be willing to move on to something but he has never raged about it.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move

Is this directed at other people as well? I'm very concerned as I read about him that he could become dangerous to others and end up in criminal trouble. I'm very sorry as I write this, but I think that you should consider what your options are long term, to keep him from being a danger to himself or others, such as a group home. It might not be time to take such a drastic action yet, but but it seems worth looking into and beginning to make plans for the future. Where would he be safest? Where would he be less likely to do something that could land him in court, and possibly prison?

I'm very sorry and I mean this post compassionately, both for him as a human being and for you as his mother.

Its primarily directed at parents, sometimes at siblings, though not the baby, thankfully. He is fairly well behaved at school and in other social settings. He saves it all for home and always has. Our therapist who works primarily with troubled adolescents feels that DS does have a conscience and empathy. But as I said, we are doing everything we can for him and its not working. I agree, we need to consider some long term solutions. It could go either way at this point.

BTW - It was an ok night. He spent most of it in his room for poor behavior, mouthing off to me like, "Why should I respect you? There is nothing to respect about you." He didn't yell this, just said it with calm distain. The one time of the night he was allowed to be outside with his brothers he wiped a booger on one of their faces and later swore at the other one. I told him at the beginning of the evening that I was absolutely not going to tolerate any more violent behavior and that if police were called he could be assured he would be leaving with them. So he did comply without any physical violence each time I send him to his room or placed limits on him. These are the things that make me and his therapist think he actually has much more control over his behavior than he lets on. His psychiatrist did not get back to me today so I will call again tomorrow but I talked to his therapist (different office) and we have an appt in the morning.

[Kailey's mom]

Maybe time for a med adjustment? I see you mentioned antipsychotics and antidepressants, but what about benzodiazapams? Zanax, ativan, klonopin?

I go to A.S. support group meetings, and I hear a lot of moms talking about how the behaviors get worse during puberty.

A few of my friends say that adderol has helped them with their mood.

Maybe having ativan or something similar on hand would help for when he's melting down.

[earthmama4]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

Maybe time for a med adjustment? I see you mentioned antipsychotics and antidepressants, but what about benzodiazapams? Zanax, ativan, klonopin?

I go to A.S. support group meetings, and I hear a lot of moms talking about how the behaviors get worse during puberty.

A few of my friends say that adderol has helped them with their mood.

Maybe having ativan or something similar on hand would help for when he's melting down.

Yes, we do have ativan. Without it I have no doubt he would have ended up tranported to the psych hospital on Wednesday. I don't want him to have to use it too often though due to its addictive properties and our strong family history of addiction. Impulse control seems to be a huge issue right now - that along with the disorganization at school...maybe adderol would be helpful. The psychiatrist wants him evaluated by the school for ADHD and gave me questionaires for his teacher. I don't get why she can't just dx him though. I will call again today and hopeful be able to get a hold of her.

He was gone this morning when I woke up. Walked to the store, in the snow, to buy me a rose and chocolates. Very sweet yes, but it scared the crap out of me. I have been asking myself, how can a kid this smart be so stupid?!?! (please don't take that the wrong way, I am just so frustrated and its something I have been thinking and not wanting to say outloud to him so I will just say it here! )