Help, please! Pottying - need a bullet, either magic or to shoot myself

[kcparker]

At 31 months (that's over 2 1/2 years old), my son STILL has potty accidents just about every day, and we have tried it ALL - witching from diapers to undies, timers and going by the clock, asking if he needs to go or not, telling him "let's go, it's potty time" instead of asking (because the answer is always NO), totally backing off and letting him be in control (unmitigated pee pee disaster because he just doesn't care about being wet, pleasing us, or being independent), giving him responsibility for putting on new pants and cleaning up any pee that leaks onto the floor, lectures (yes, mama has HAD IT with pee on the carpet and couch when there's a potty sitting two feet from his tush), chiropractic adjustments (worked great at first, but we were back to baseline by the third adjustment), eliminating dairy and wheat from the diet for a few weeks. Nothing has gotten him over the hump.

I am so angry at my son right now that I don't want to make eye contact with him, don't want to nurse him, don't want him sitting on my lap or going onto the carpet or furniture in our house. We practiced EC with him from birth, and he's old enough now that he can talk and understand us, and he KNOWS where pee is supposed to go. He just doesn't seem to give a rat's patootie about actually getting off HIS patootie to move the short distance from his current location to any of the potty receptacles we have in the house (bathroom, baby bjorn potty, large yogurt buckets). We have been stalled out on pottying for the last 6 months. Can anybody who has successfully potty trained a boy in less than three years tell me, what the h3!! is the secret?

I know, most people will say this is MY problem, but it's gross - peeing in your pants is gross, and peeing on the carpet makes the house smell gross, and this is a kid who can make his own PB&J sandwiches, follow directions for 50 minutes at a children's yoga class, and sit for 90 minutes straight drawing or playing with blocks - he's not dumb, and I would like to believe that kids are not naturally lazy.

Some days are great and he is dry all day, but it feels like a minor miracle. Once in awhile, he actually takes himself to the potty and my jaw falls on the ground. I am at my wit's end and just want him to be a little bit responsible for himself - is this an unreasonable expectation? He likes a lot of babying - likes to be held, still nurses, asks us to feed him like a baby bird sometimes, still needs help getting dressed. I do recognize that he's still a little guy, but I think most kids should be potty trained by this point in their lives (I know not everyone agrees with this).

[lara1828]

Originally Posted by kcparker

I am so angry at my son right now that I don't want to make eye contact with him, don't want to nurse him, don't want him sitting on my lap or going onto the carpet or furniture in our house.

This is a power struggle you can't win, mama. Potty training is a process and not every 2.5 year old is going to get it every time, even if it hasn't turned into a power struggle. Sorry, no links, but I know there is some thinking that many boys are just not developmentally ready until age 3. This was true of both my highly verbal, very focused, easy tempered, likely gifted boys.

Not what you want to hear, I know. I know it's GROSS to have your stuff peed on. Hopefully some other EC mamas here will have some tips for getting through the next few months until your son is ready.

Lara

[cloe]

We found that we got most with my son at that age but sometimes something would happen and then for months at a time pee was everywhere. I found it usually came with some developmental stage. Often teeth or an explosion in talking ect. We definatly took him without question after naps and found that when he was constipated he was far more likely to have an acident on the floor. It will get better and he will go in the toilet before long and this time of terrible frustration will come to an end.

[cappuccinosmom]

Having been someone who once upon a time turned up her nose at parents who still had kids in diapers at three....

Some kids just aren't going to do it on our timing. My youngest turns 3 in 9 weeks and he still won't poop in the potty and often wakes up soaking wet.

My advice: Get some heavy-duty pullups and back way off. Change him when he needs it, bath him when he's stinky, and leave it there. You need to cool way off. You need to re-establish your relationship with him. You need to let go of any ideas of being a "perfect" EC success. If potty training has reached a point where the parent is angry and rejecting of the child, it doesn't matter how wonderful the method is, it's not working and shouldn't continue in that vein.

If you feel like he's milking the "baby" thing, work on things that aren't a power struggle first.

[PGTlatte]

Personally I would put him in pull ups and let it go until he is ready - meaning interested and willing to participate in the process.

2.5 was waaaaaay too young for either of our boys. It sounds like this is becoming the source of a lot of negativity in your relationship with your son. It is not worth it. IMO nothing is more important than a close loving relationship with our kids, and that they feel accepted and comfortable with us. He will use the toilet in his own time. This is not worth hurting your relationship with him, or having him feel like he's failing you. And it is not uncommon at all for a boy to not be toilet independent at this age, or even a year beyond.

Our oldest did not get out of pullups for pee until a month after his 4th bday. He was pooping in the potty at 3.5, but didn't start consistently and willingly using the potty for pee until 4. It happened one day we were headed to an open gym, and he said he did not want to wear a pullup. I said "then you have to use the potty at the gym." He said he would, and I held him to it, and he never went back into them in the daytime. Now he is almost 7, still in pullups at night, and still has occasional accidents during the day when he waits too long and doesn't quite make it. He is interested in not having these accidents and is doing his best. He was born with a birth defect in his urinary tract, had surgery at 4 months, and is doing his best.

Our younger son was consistently peeing in the potty by age 3.5. He did not want to poop in the potty for a few months after that though. Oh, that drove me nuts. When my mom was visiting, he said "Grandma, I want to tell you something" and led my mom off away from me. He told her "tell my mom I will poop in the potty when I am ready". It went straight to my heart. I left him alone about it. And when he was ready, he did it.

I know that at this point his potty independence is important to you, but it is not something your son is wanting to make his own at this point. I would just love him and wait on it, with nothing but gentle encouragement, no negativity about it. And when he is ready and does it, let him own it and be pleased with himself.

[Mama Mko]

I would also back off. He's in control and you can't make him pee on the toilet. I wouldn't make it a big deal. He'll do it eventually.

[kcparker]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

My advice: Get some heavy-duty pullups and back way off. Change him when he needs it, bath him when he's stinky, and leave it there. You need to cool way off. You need to re-establish your relationship with him. You need to let go of any ideas of being a "perfect" EC success. If potty training has reached a point where the parent is angry and rejecting of the child, it doesn't matter how wonderful the method is, it's not working and shouldn't continue in that vein.

If you feel like he's milking the "baby" thing, work on things that aren't a power struggle first.

He's been wearing undies for awhile now, so going back to diapers (we use cloth) feels like the wrong thing to do. He generally stays dry at the daycare he goes to, and he does sometimes potty on his own initiative. I feel like he is so close, and I don't understand why he won't be consistent. At this point, I we are way beyond ECing; ECing served its purpose of giving us good communication and intuition about his potty needs (I still get phantom pee on my leg right before he pees), and at this point, it's not about potty learning because he KNOWS. He is potty learned, just not potty compliant. And I don't know how to let go of this because I am constantly wondering when I am going to be peed on, and it's hard to enjoy playing with him or watching him at the park or going to yoga class because I am expecting him to be wet when he is done. I am happy to continue all the other baby stuff, but this is coloring our entire relationship, and I don't know how to stop being mad at him about it.

So, how do I make this NOT a power struggle? Is putting out a basket of dry undies and pants and telling him it's his gig and ignoring it the best I can do?

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

First, I sympathize I was SHOCKED by how upset and frustrated I was the first time my DD had an accident that I knew she could have avoided if she had not been so absorbed in playing w/ toys.

If I were you, I would just put him in diapers. Personally, I hate pull-ups (putting them on and off), so I wouldn't go that route (and they are so expensive! goodness!)
It's causing stress for you, and there's obviously something going on with your son-- laziness, power struggle, sphincter control, etc. I have a friend whose son is BRILLIANT (like, reading at 3, chapter books at 4), and to my knowledge, he only successfully potty-trained around 4. He was just so focused on his other development (and maybe smart enough to realize he didn't really need to put forward the effort) that the potty-learning lagged behind.

[berry987]

I didn't read all the the other responses, because I just had to quickly tell you -- 2.5 is still very young for potty training!

Just stop - put him back in diapers. My kids both did it very easily once THEY were ready. For DS1 that was 3 years and a few months and for DS2 that was exactly 3 years old. Boys do this later than girls, so be patient.

Once it becomes this awful struggle there is no way he is going to do it. I tried with DS1 too young and found that out the hard way. So just relax, put him back in diapers, and try again when he is 3.

[PGTlatte]

Originally Posted by kcparker

He is potty learned, just not potty compliant.

This is not something you can force him to do. Perhaps he is letting you know that.

And I don't know how to let go of this because I am constantly wondering when I am going to be peed on, and it's hard to enjoy playing with him or watching him at the park or going to yoga class because I am expecting him to be wet when he is done.

This is why I suggest pullups, even if you've only been EC and/or cloth until now. Both our kids went from cloth to pullups. Pullups were for me, not them...so I could allow myself the freedom from being obsessed about their bodily functions.

I am happy to continue all the other baby stuff, but this is coloring our entire relationship, and I don't know how to stop being mad at him about it.

In the grand scheme of things, this is just not worth messing up your relationship with him. He will use the toilet eventually no matter what, regardless of whether you experience this time as positive and relaxed or negative and stressful. Your relationship with him is built day by day, and is so much more important.

So, how do I make this NOT a power struggle?

The way out of a tug of war is to drop your end of the rope.

[Tofu the Geek]

What about cloth trainers?

[maplesugar]

Just echoing what othersd have said: when he is ready it will be so easy. Dd was not potty trained at all at that age. It was very frustrating. She was so smart at that age and I compared he to ds, who was diaper free by his second birthday.

A little after her third birthday, she was ready and it was easy.

[Drummer's Wife]

I agree that 2.5 is young for little boys, especially, to be using the potty all the time.

In fact, I would guess that the majority of boys his age are not using the toilet. I would put him in diapers/pull-ups and follow his lead.

Here's the thing: toileting should not be a struggle. When parents complain about potty training troubles - I tend to think they brought it upon themselves. When the child it truly ready, potty "training" will be a breeze. I mean sure, you might have accidents and messes to clean up from time to time, but it most definitely won't be something that has you angry with your kid. It is, afterall, their own bodily function. There really is no way, outside of a bunch of praise, threatening, bribing, begging, etc., to really control it. Encouragement is okay, and even a reward if you choose to go that route (particularily for an older child, I guess)... but having had four kids - 3 boys, and 1 girl - whom all went about toileting slightly different (and were potty trained between 24 mos-4 years, respectfully), I have to say that I would definitely relax, back-off, and know you won't have a kid in diapers until middle-school.

[~Boudicca~]

Let it go mama. He's obviously not ready. Put a pullup on him and he will one day be ready. That day is not now.

[orangefoot]

I've ED'd two small people and I think this is a potty pause. Just the word pause tells you that this won't go on forever and it will change. No assurance about *when* bit this won't last forever.

Potty pauses happen when there is other stuff going on. You say he can do all sorts of things himself as well as do yoga class. He is probably very busy in his head right now and that is why the wee in the right place thing isn't happening consistently.

I get your revulsion for stuff being in the 'wrong' place. Once you have ECd, anything else seems odd and I think it does move our tolerance/acceptance for pee on the carpet and elsewhere. My 3.5yo has misses occasionally which are related to grapes or crossness or laziness. We lean up and move on just like we did when she was 12mo but it does irk me.

Have you posted about this in the EC forum? Go over there for some other perspectives.

[mamadelbosque]

I'd go back to diapers. DS1 will be 3 on monday and is more or less potty trained - as long as he doesn't have undies/pull up/diaper on!! But, he had *zero* interest till he as 33+ months. Zero. Zip. Nada. I made a handfull of attempts before then every couple months with zero success, so we'd just go back to diapers. Its not worth the stress. Its really not. Get some good pull ups or just go back to diapers and don't stress. He'll figure it out. Eventually!!

[sapphire_chan]

What happens if you tell him it's time to use the potty?
What happens if you help him to the potty like you used to do before he was a "big boy"? (In case it is a matter of him wanting the connection like he had as a baby.)

How about fleecy pants with elastic cuffs to help catch the pees further?


And, I know you've said you're past ECing, but what is he communicating? Is he scared to be the one in charge of the potty? Is he needing to touch base with you?


Oh! Are there too many potty choices to decide between at home? Just thought of that since he's using the potty consistently at daycare. Maybe if you tell him "if you need the potty, here is a potty to use" when he settles down to play in a given room. Or if you take away all the other potties and tell him to go use the toilet everytime.

[sapphire_chan]

Oh dear, I just read your first paragraph more carefully.

A puddle pad on the floor under where he sits to play could help you relax.

Unfortunately, although I don't think this is what caused the peeing problems, pulling away from him is probably prolonging them.

Did the peeing problems at home correspond to starting daycare by any chance?

Just throwing ideas out there in hopes it gets your mind unlocked. Even if just thinking "no, Sapphire, we did that and it didn't work because..." might give you some inspiration.

[dogretro]

Yeah, my daughter is like that. We also EC and she has been poop trained since a ridiculously young age. Never ever ever cared a lick about peeing herself. She is 22 months & has known since forever that pee is supposed to go in the potty. She will pee in the potty, but only if we take her, & she is also wet almost every single time. I tried not too long ago to march along towards graduation, but it's just not happening right now. The added plus is that she likes to fight me when getting her diaper changed. We also use cloth & I refuse to spend $40 per month on PullUps. Anywho, what we do is always have her in something waterproof (diaper OR waterproof trainers). If your son knows what is supposed to go on, waterproof trainers are probably your best bet. I, too, am not interested in any pee getting on anything, so that has always been our route I would rather dd spend a longer stretch of time in diapers or trainers than to not be able to enjoy playing w/ my baby.

[waiting2bemommy]

I would take him every hour, whether he likes it or not. As I'm discovering, 2 year olds always want to do the opposite of whatever you want and usually when it is least convenient. Also, my son really enjoys getting a reaction out of me. If I got really pissed he would probably be entertained enough to keep the behavior up. It's an attention thing. He doesn't like hurting my feelings and will stop immediately if he thinks I'm crying or hurt or something, but I dont' believe in guilt trips, so I wouldn't do that.

Just make it non negotiable, with a consequence to back it up. Ds has had a couple pants-pooping phases that were clearly just to piss me off and not due to any medical/developmental problems, so I took him and sat him ont he potty every hour whether he protested or not. I made it as non negotiable as sitting in the carseat and brushing teeth. If he refused I told him matter of factly that he could sit in xyz boring spot until he was ready to go potty. Mind you this is not how I actually potty trained him, this was much after the fact when he was fully potty learned and knew exactly what he was doing. He did of course complain very vocally at first but I ahven't seen any long term trauma