dr says CIO at bedtime for toddler, are there other ways??

[outerspacemama]

DS is almost 19 months and sleeps pretty well IMO - he goes to bed around 830 and nurses 2-3 times during the night but really briefly and falls right back asleep till 7am. We co-sleep but we put him down in his crib until he wakes up, usually around midnight, and then he comes in with us.

The only issue is that sometimes it takes him a loooong time to go to sleep. We usually put on PJs, pick up toys, & read stories for 1/2 hour. Then we nurse and sing and then I basically just lay with him while he goes to sleep. This period could be as short as 20 mins (like tonight) but sometimes it takes 1.5h which makes it feel like my night is totally shot, no time to spend with DH or get other things done,etc.

We went to the 18 month checkup and I asked the dr what he thought about this (he is supportive of co-sleeping) and he very firmly said that we should be setting boundaries with sleep so that if I thought 30 mins of laying down with DS is all I want then I should leave after that period and put DS in his crib and just not come back. Dr said the first couple nights he might cry and scream for as long as 3 hours but then it would get better. The Dr said we should set limits now because kids need limits, etc. For him it is sort of a discipline and structure issue. The thought of doing this totally freaks me out since we have never ever let DS cry that long. I would not be able to be present for something like that.

Anyways, what are the alternatives? I feel like there must be compromises where both of our needs are (mostly) met. I cherish our bedtimes because I work a good amount and it's a very nice together time for us, but I really don't want to spend 2+ hours doing it.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Yikes I wouldnt ever talk about sleep with that ped. again. What he is suggesting is very damaging to a child. Please please mama dong leave you lo to cry for you imagine how you would feel if you where crying for someone and they never came. The very thought breaks my heart.

Remember this will not always be the case he will grow and learn and sleep better eventually. Cherish the time you have together because it dosnt last a long time. Both mine where horrible sleepers about did me in actually but looking back it dosnt seem as bad as when I was going through it.

Is it possible you are trying to get him to go to sleep to early? Some kids do better with a later bed time. I would start by pushing bed time back 30 min and see how that works then pushing it back an hour or more if needed 30 min. at a time.

[Violet2]

To me, different ages require different approaches to sleep. 19months is not an infant.

Personally, I would start talking to your toddler about bed time and 'weaning' them off your current routine as gently as possible. It's possible that your presence is keeping them up longer than they would be otherwise. Decide what the cut off point is for you; after the book? 30 minutes laying together? And then leave your LO to go to sleep. If they are upset, go back and resettle them as often as necessary--this avoids CIO.

Change can be dynamic and stressful-- your toddler may not be thrilled, so give the process some time. A few nights of bed time drama don't mean failure. This is a new skill, it won't be perfect from the start.

Also, I always respond to DD when she is upset, but ignore general fussing/whining at this age (toddler). I explain bed time to her and I also tell her I'm always there even if she can't see me (which sounds stalkerish now that I think about it).

As I've posted in other threads, some kids need quiet and alone time to decompress. DD would never fall asleep if I followed your routine; my presence is too stimulating. (In fact if we bring her into our bed when she wakes at night, she won't sleep at all. DD is not a cosleeper at all. So we end up putting her back in her crib, she cries for 30 seconds and passes out--it's weird! DD should read Dr. Sears' books and get with the AP program!) Perhaps your toddler is getting to a point where they are ready to fall asleep on their own???

Oh and be sure your toddler has a lovey--this is a huge help with sleeping.

But yes, feel free to ignore your doctor. But also don't think you are powerless to change what you don't like about bed time either.

V

[sapphire_chan]

Some kids do really well with "I'm going to go do X, and then I'll come back" If your ds can understand that, it could be worth trying. Go away for a minute, come back. Basically give him the space to get to sleep in case you are keeping him up, but also let him know it's safe to go to sleep since you will be back when you say.

[Ruthie's momma]

If it doesn't feel like a good suggestion (and, IMO, it isn't) than don't follow your ped's advice! No child should be left to cry, at any age, ever.

I agree that you should try putting him to sleep a bit later. When DD was taking an oddly long time to fall asleep each night, I thought that she was no longer needing her daytime nap. So, we tried going without a nap for a couple of days. Bad idea! DD needs that little mid-day snooze. So, we tried starting our bedtime routine about 30 minutes later. Before long, she was getting to sleep within 30-45 minutes. Our routine includes jammies, 2 or 3 stories, snack, brush teeth and lights out.

I love that snuggle time each night!

[Dandelionkid]

Your dr's opinion is just that- an opinion. He is an expert on medical knowledge- not sleep training and discipline. Only you can know what is right and needed in this situation.

Our kids seem to need to fall asleep on their own around 18 months to two years of age. The cue they give us is taking a LONG time to fall asleep with us beside them. So with our last two we would tuck them in and then check on them frequently until asleep. We would offer toys or whatever to make them feel more comfortable and we would never leave them to cry. It didn't take them long to get the hang of it. Good luck!

[LianneM]

Recently I was reminded of this, paraphrased from Pam Leo's book Connection Parenting:

Children know that bedtime is their last chance to connect for the day. If their "love cup" isn't full by bedtime, they will stall or take a long time going to sleep in order to get it filled.

So maybe trying to keep that in mind, especially if you are working a good bit - maybe he really just needs extra connection with you right now. I wanted to share that from Pam's book because I have found it to be very true for my family.

Follow your gut, mama - you know your child best.

I agree that it is something that changes with age, and it also varies through different stages. I have been through it with my 5yo - some nights are super easy and he falls right to sleep, and other nights he needs more connection before he can settle down.

I also agree that some kids need less stimulation, and that the "I'll be back" thing can work - it did many times with my older one. I have now a 20month old, and it would absolutely not work with her. She needs me to be there until she goes to sleep, and that's ok. She does ok if I just read, though, even with a reading lamp on. She just needs me close by. I feel like my time isn't totally shot if I'm able to read, and also just calming myself in that way helps the kids to go to sleep easier. I'm sure there's nothing worse for getting them to sleep than me laying there, thinking, "HURRY UP AND GO TO SLEEP!" and watching the clock, you know? Stress!

[hakeber]

I agre with your pediatrician that kids needs boundaries. Humans are social creatures and in fact we crave them. I just don't agree with the boundaaries he is suggesting you set. Sleep at this age is hard, but leaving a child to cry or up to THREE HOURS? That just seems insane! Do you want the boundaries to imply that after 8pm you're not available for cuddles? I think there are easier ways to set boundaries, healthy loving boundaries that reinforce routines and help give the child a sense of routine. Routines help our bodies know what to do. Even to this day I get sleepy reading stories.

I agree with Violet that crying and whining are two different things, and I have allowed my kid to whine and complain, but always shout out to him..."Go sleep, now! Mommy and Daddy are right next door, time to sleep! Goodnight Benjamin, I love you!" and keep a keen ear should the whining transition to real upset and fear or panic. At not yet two, the night time routine generally took about an hour. Bath, teeth, tickles and massage, stories, nursing and songs...and then sometimes patting to sleep. It was definitely a HUGE chunk of our night, but we felt crying it out wasn't exactly going to accomplish the goal of bringing dh and I together...screaming toddler is not one of MY turn ons, ya know? So we took our alone time when we could, and sometimes it meant we were exhausted and collapsed into bed together, or veged out to a movie or sit-coms and sometimes it meant we hired babysitters to look after him while we went out alone. We even let ds start sleeping over at our friend's house once a month so we could have a proper date night.

At nearly five we have some nights that take up to an hour for bedtime (on particularly exciting days), though the average is 30 minutes...ish. IME what kids need more than the CIO sort of boundaries and "space to learn on their own" how to "self-soothe" is routine and the safety of knowing what comes next. If they know teeth brushing begets stories which begets songs, which begets cuddles, which begets sleep which begets mommy waking me up...it's easier to say goodnight.

I would say definitely set a specific routine with the same number of steps each night and when you reach the last step, give a kiss and walk out...when she fusses or complains reassure him from afar, but if he cries, I would go in and touch her and settle her down. "Mama finished the story, it's time to sleep now, I love you,good night." Until he gets the message. The more nights you follow the routine (or so the theory goes, ha ha) the faster he will fall asleep each night, until it's just old hat.

[Ann-Marita]

Taking a doctor's advice on PARENTING decisions (as opposed to medical ones) is like taking your car mechanic's advice on WHERE to drive.

[alfabetsoup]

Even though it sounds insane, I would actually try putting him to bed earlier. 8:30 is really late for a toddler, does he have a long nap? My 19mo has a 2-3 hour nap and she's still shattered by the evening. I find (strangely) that when she goes to bed late (after 8pm) it takes her longer to fall asleep, as if she's gotten a second wind or something. 7:30 is about our cutoff--doesn't seem to affect how early she wakes, either!

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by alfabetsoup

Even though it sounds insane, I would actually try putting him to bed earlier. 8:30 is really late for a toddler, does he have a long nap? My 19mo has a 2-3 hour nap and she's still shattered by the evening. I find (strangely) that when she goes to bed late (after 8pm) it takes her longer to fall asleep, as if she's gotten a second wind or something. 7:30 is about our cutoff--doesn't seem to affect how early she wakes, either!

[Magali]

What works for us is not having a set bedtime for our ds. He goes to sleep when he is showing signs that he is tired. We read a few books and then when ds looks ready dh reads a book in a really slow monotone voice and it is quite hilarious how ds's eyes start to flutter closed almost instantly. As for having the night shot and no time to hang out with your hubby....yeah sounds familiar. But not all the time. Like you said, sometimes your babe goes down quickly, and other times it takes longer. Same for my son, and same for myself too actually.

[Jend1002]

Originally Posted by Ann-Marita

Taking a doctor's advice on PARENTING decisions (as opposed to medical ones) is like taking your car mechanic's advice on WHERE to drive.

That is the best thing I have heard! Great thing to keep in mind!

[maryeb]

We don't get into bed until my kids are so wiped out. It's usually around 7pm, falling asleep seems takes 1/2 hour or less. If they stay up later for whatever reason it takes much longer. I say try picking up/lights low earlier, get to the bed earlier maybe not so many books? Good luck mama! Mary

[BeanyMama]

Originally Posted by alfabetsoup

Even though it sounds insane, I would actually try putting him to bed earlier. 8:30 is really late for a toddler, does he have a long nap? My 19mo has a 2-3 hour nap and she's still shattered by the evening. I find (strangely) that when she goes to bed late (after 8pm) it takes her longer to fall asleep, as if she's gotten a second wind or something. 7:30 is about our cutoff--doesn't seem to affect how early she wakes, either!

This!

[beebalmmama]

If you want to try boundaries I would do as one pp said. To sit with them for X number of minutes and then leave them to fall asleep and come back as necessary to soothe and recuddle.
I also tried telling ds that "I'm going to do X and I'll be back in a minute (usually to pee) sometimes (NOT always) he would be asleep when I got back.

I wouldn't ever talk to your ped again about sleep issues. CIO is CIO regardless of how old the child.

[outerspacemama]

Mamas - thanks so much for your replies! There are lots of ideas here to try and your responses confirm my desire to NOT do CIO so thanks so much.