Supervised Visitation?

[Phoenix~Mama]

I have a meeting with a lawyer on the 22nd... Am wondering if anyone has any experience getting supervised vistation and/or no overnights?

I'm wondering if I have enough stuff to get it approved...

I am actually scared/sick to my stomach thinking of STBX having DD whole weekend alone...

When I'm not there to "nag" him he forgets things... dangerous things. Such as I came downstairs one day to find he left the mop bucket water sitting and DD was about to go play in it.

I was working from home last Thursday and he was supposed to be watching DD downstairs while I worked upstairs in the office. I heard her crying for more than a minute so called down to STBX to see what was going on... no answer... I went to investigate.

STBX feel asleep on the couch, never put up the safety gates... DD was sitting on the stairs in a dirty diaper crying while he was asleep on the couch.

And not to mention where a couple months ago he was neglecting feeding DD solids. He hasn't made that mistake again since DD had a doc appt and doc said her weight was low... that was enough of a wake up call for him.

But, I honestly cannot imagine what tactics he is going to resort to when I'm not around anymore. I am genuinely extremely concerned about my DD's well being in his care for more than a couple hours.

What do I need to do to prove my case and that I'm not just some crazy overprotective Mom?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Write down exact dates and times for ALL of the incidents in which you DD was not safe in his care. A judge will need to see it. So will your lawyer to be able to help you get what you want.

Also, please remember that these are public forums (with the exception of PAP where most of your threads are), and try not to post stuff that your H could see (especially if he knows your sn). You don't want him to get wind of your plans.

[One_Girl]

Where I live the standard custody plan doesn't allow for overnight visits for kids under three. You can file for more or less than the standard, especially if he agrees to it. If he fights though he will probably get more no matter how old your child is. Filing for the state recommended schedule or less is worth a try though. It is very hard to get supervised visitation without a really serious need. Letting a baby play in soapy water, falling asleep, and letting a baby cry for a few minutes probably won't be enough, but that is something your lawyer can walk you through.

[Phoenix~Mama]

What about yelling, hitting walls, and grabbing of older sibling?

And his counselor has put him into anger management classes...

Please tell me there are judges who will see these red flags and at least put a limit on visits until his counselor clears him as a more healthy functioning person??

[DanishMom]

I hope you will get more replies. I've read all your posts on PaP. I'm so glad to see you get out of this relationship. You have been through far too much!

I think you should take steps to protect your DSD. Maybe you can talk to her mom or CPS. Talk to your lawyer before you do anything. Unfortunately I don't know that much about how much it takes to get supervised visitation in the US.

Good luck. You are so strong! I know how hard it is to get away from abuse.

[Soul-O]

Forum crashing (former single mom with abusive ex)..

Unfortunately, it is my experience that getting supervised visitation is very difficult, even with evidence and reports of physical violence. When I originally filed for divorce, I had a restraining order against my exDH because of physical abuse of me and my older DS, and harrassing behavior, yet still ended up with standard visitation for my older DSs (4 1/2 and 21 mos at the time). I was able to have a graduated schedule for my younger DS because ex had never taken either child overnight and thus the custody evaluator wanted to ease into overnights. Abusers tend to be very good at fooling both judges and custody evaluators, so make sure that you have an excellent attorney, and that if you are required to go through a custody evaluation, see if you can choose the evaluator based on your attorney's recommendation.

BTW - My divorce took place in CA.

Also, please find a copy of "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. This book offers excellent insight into the mindset of abusers, and has good advice on how to handle the legal system with regard to protecting yourself and your child.

Good luck, many hugs, and prayers go out to you.

[Phoenix~Mama]

Thanks, I am reading that book currently actually, just haven't gotten to that chapter yet... maybe I should skip ahead for the moment...

My heart is bleeding right now because my Mom just called me with this account:

My Mom just called me... she really thinks STBX yells at DD when I'm not around. She reacted very strongly to my Dad's male voice telling her gently "no-no" about not playing with a picture frame. She burst out in tears and started trembling and kept hiding her face in the couch then found my Mom and clung to her and wouldn't let go. *cries*

A not even 14 month old should not have this severe of a reaction to male voice!?

[Super~Single~Mama]

write it down!! And if you want supervised visits only - do NOT leave him alone with your DD any more. AT ALL. If you do it opens the door for the whole, "she must trust me b/c she went out and left me with DD for x number of hours alone...."

[homewithtwinsmama]

It would be better to be in a homeless shelter and getting their support and counseling than subjecting this child to this any longer.

[Freedom~Mama]

[provocativa]

In my state it is legal to record conversations. . . . I never knew how cheap digital voice recorders were (30 bucks or so), and some are voice activated. I should have recorded his abusive rants! But I didn't, and now he's on an extended honeymoon period and I will never have evidence of his abuse. You could conceal one in a backpack, etc. Then at least you would know if he is yelling at her, even if it can't be used in court.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by provocativa

In my state it is legal to record conversations. . . . I never knew how cheap digital voice recorders were (30 bucks or so), and some are voice activated. I should have recorded his abusive rants! But I didn't, and now he's on an extended honeymoon period and I will never have evidence of his abuse. You could conceal one in a backpack, etc. Then at least you would know if he is yelling at her, even if it can't be used in court.

In your state it is probably legal to record conversations that you are *involved* in. I highly doubt you are allowed to conceal a recorder and eavesdrop on conversations that are being had outside of your presence.

[bobandjess99]

Chances are it will be extremely hard to get, however, most states have a set visitation plan, and whoel weekends woudl not normally start for a couple more years. You can ask about the usual schedule, and you might be able to get some slight variance on it, but supervised visits isn't likely to happen, not without extreme evidence of abuse, I'm sorry.

[violet_]

JSMa, I don't have any advice about supervised visits, but I just wanted to send you hugs and tell you I'm sorry you have to deal with all this with your baby girl.

[MissLotus]

It's sad and awful but it doesn't surprise me in the least that he treats your daughter that way. From reading your posts over at PaP, this is how he treats you - this is who he IS - so naturally it's going to come out when he's around her!

I would move heaven and earth to have him around your child as little as possible. In another post you said he watches her half the day while you're at work. That is half a day too long. He's probably terribly impatient and as I recall from a post, also somewhat negligent.

I know the idea of unsupervised visitation is scary. But as long as you're married, she's around him unsupervised even MORE. At least if you're divorced, she's exposed to him less, plus the time they'd be together would be brief enough, and maybe enough of a "novelty" for him that he could keep his act together for that amount of time (not that I'd voluntarily want this sort of person to babysit my kid - heck, no.) Plus yes, there's always a chance that you COULD get supervised visitation, at least maybe a judge would consider the counselor's recommendation and the fact that your H is advised to go to anger-management classes. Also, you H himself might flake out on visitation anyway. Doesn't he have a daughter now, that you do much of the caring for? He might not even see HER so much, if it weren't for you. He doesn't sound like he's into caring for little kids. And he shouldn't be - not with his temper. I mean, he's the same person who's screamed at his other kid - why wouldn't he do that to both of them?

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

I know the idea of unsupervised visitation is scary. But as long as you're married, she's around him unsupervised even MORE. At least if you're divorced, she's exposed to him less, plus the time they'd be together would be brief enough, and maybe enough of a "novelty" for him that he could keep his act together for that amount of time (not that I'd voluntarily want this sort of person to babysit my kid - heck, no.) Plus yes, there's always a chance that you COULD get supervised visitation, at least maybe a judge would consider the counselor's recommendation and the fact that your H is advised to go to anger-management classes. Also, you H himself might flake out on visitation anyway. Doesn't he have a daughter now, that you do much of the caring for? He might not even see HER so much, if it weren't for you. He doesn't sound like he's into caring for little kids. And he shouldn't be - not with his temper. I mean, he's the same person who's screamed at his other kid - why wouldn't he do that to both of them?

I agree with all of this. I said it before, but I will bring it up again. This is the same man who refused to become "daddy daycare". He might not even care about seeing either child, really. He may disappear completly if that means paying CS for THREE kids.

I know its a long shot, but stranger things have happened.

[LMB102]

Hi. I don't know how long ago you wrote this or how often you check your responses, but it was so scary reading your story.  I feel like we married the exact same man.  We have the same stories.  I am in the middle of my divorce and I need help.  Since your story was dated 2009, I am assuming you got help and have moved on.  I need advice.  Currently, my husband has supervised visitation with my two year old.  The courthouse told me that eventually supervised visitation ends.  It does not last that long.  I am scared to death.  My husband used to leave our baby at the top of the staircase and go to bed, he used to leave his tool box open and I would find her playing in it.  He always used to fall asleep while caring for her.  One night we ended up in the emergency room because he dropped her while sleeping.  He is so careless and mindless.  He does not hold her hand in the mall and she is always getting away from him.  His mind wanders while at the park.  He begins talking to people and loses track of her.  One time she was walking in the parking lot.  He also does not pay attention to her food allergies.  He is always feeding her food she is allergic to.  I need help.  I am scared to death of him getting unsupervised visitation some day.  Do you have any advice for me? I would appreciate it so much if you could respond and we could help each other.  Thank you.

[Montana Mom]

Edited by Montana Mom - 2/4/11 at 4:00pm

[Phoenix~Mama]

I am so sorry hon!  :hug   After being advised by two different lawyers, there was no way I was going to get supervised visitation.  DD and DS have been going with ex for awhile now.  He only stays at his Mom's with them, so I know he has a lot of help looking after them.  Not that they are the most reliable either... but that's another story. 

The sad truth is most judges will not grant supervised visitation unless the parent is physically abusing the child.  It's ridiculous. 

I accept what I have to... document the hell out of everything anytime they come home and something seems off, and follow up with a doctor when it warrants it, so I have that paper trail too. 

It's a tough place to be in.  :hug 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by LMB102 

Hi. I don't know how long ago you wrote this or how often you check your responses, but it was so scary reading your story.  I feel like we married the exact same man.  We have the same stories.  I am in the middle of my divorce and I need help.  Since your story was dated 2009, I am assuming you got help and have moved on.  I need advice.  Currently, my husband has supervised visitation with my two year old.  The courthouse told me that eventually supervised visitation ends.  It does not last that long.  I am scared to death.  My husband used to leave our baby at the top of the staircase and go to bed, he used to leave his tool box open and I would find her playing in it.  He always used to fall asleep while caring for her.  One night we ended up in the emergency room because he dropped her while sleeping.  He is so careless and mindless.  He does not hold her hand in the mall and she is always getting away from him.  His mind wanders while at the park.  He begins talking to people and loses track of her.  One time she was walking in the parking lot.  He also does not pay attention to her food allergies.  He is always feeding her food she is allergic to.  I need help.  I am scared to death of him getting unsupervised visitation some day.  Do you have any advice for me? I would appreciate it so much if you could respond and we could help each other.  Thank you.

If he currently has supervised, as you said, maybe you can stretch it out as long as possible to get your child to the point they won't need *constant* supervision.  Generally, the final order is very close to the "temp" order - so just hang on tight, and hope it goes long enough.

Remember, the court will try and bully people into settling their dispute without going to trial - but that does NOT mean you have to settle.  If you aren't comfortable, don't settle.  Don't be stupid either, and don't push for too much (like, supervised once per month for an hour probably isn't the best, b/c then he has no way of being meaningfully involved - one a week for 2-3hours on the other hand is pretty reasonable for supervised visits - more than that and you look very reasonable and very accomodating and not like you are trying to kick him out completely, kwim?).

It's very hard to get supervised initially, you've gotten over that hurdle, so for now, just don't agree to change anything.  Judges can't change anything unless 2 parties agree - UNLESS there is a TRIAL where people testify, and evidence is submitted to help the judge make the decision.