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How is mormonism different from Christianity? - Page 3

post #41 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
I think this is probably true. Also, I think, usually, the only peoople who consider Mormons Christian, are Mormons.
I'm not a Christian, but I consider Mormonism to be a sect of Christianity; absolutely. I felt the same way when I was Christian, as did many other Christians that I knew/know.
post #42 of 132
I'm not offended, just really amazed that people don't view us a Christians. ..ok, maybe I'm offended...just in the spitting milk out my nose yelling 'Are you freaking kidding me?" at the computer kind of way.

InMediasRes...I can throw out the "I have tons of Catholic friends who...." too. I can count 15 Catholic friends. They all believe & follow different things. So do I base that religion on those 15 friends who all differ vastly on thier beliefs? So your Mormon friends...do they really not worship Jesus Christ? Sure, they may not believe in the Trinity as you do...but do they really not worship him? Do they go to church? Say their prayers? Get baptised? Do service? (If not, tell them to got back to Gospel Principle class...they need it!) The Gospel for us is simple. Jesus Christ is the head of our church. He is our Lord & Savior. Do we worship like a Catholic? Baptist? ect? In some aspects, sure. In others..no.

Another thing that makes people spit fire at us is we believe faith without works is dead. You can not just be baptized & voila....your saved. We believe you have to work at it, just not give it lip service. After all that we have done...all our hard work, our good works, then the atonement of Jesus Christ will cover thoses areas we have failed in. He makes up the difference for us. We also don't believe in death bed confessions. So I do know that is different from other religions.

As for the God thing. The Son represents the Father, only does the will of the Father, and is the author of our Salvation, acting for the Father. The Book of Mormon and the Bible tell us that God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are One God. But the son is distinct from the Father, making two persons - and what we believe to be two Gods. But the Bible also teaches that there are other beings that can be called "gods" - not just fictitious idols, but real beings. The existence of multiple heavenly beings that can be called "gods" is not just an an LDS thing, but is an solidly Biblical concept. (I'm too tired to give scripture...but if you want it, I'll get it for you) So yeah, that is another difference.

Sorry, I'm not doing this to piss people off...I'm actually having fun. But yea, there are many differences between us. Oh another...The Gospel is the same where ever you go. So what is taught in Russia...is also taught in Kenya, Mexico,Japan, Utah (although Utah mormons are weird...whoa, just teasing my Utah peeps! It's like we are rival schools...we just talk smack!) well, you get the picture. Sure, different customs & personalities can make THE PEOPLE different. (Just like my 15 differnt Catholic friends.) But we teach out of the same Sunday School, Relief Society, Primary etc handbooks. Our Sacrament sevices follow the same pattern. We teach out of the Bible & BOM. We have the same teaching material for all churches in all nations. (Just this week we have 4 Japanese students come to chruch. They opened up their books & followed along with all the lessons...in their own language)

We also believe in living a Prophet. Thomas S. Monson is our living Prophet today. He will be the Prophet until he dies.

We believe...oh heck..I'm just going to copy & paste...now. This is the 13 Articles of Faith that were composed by Joseph Smith to concisely represent key elements of LDS doctrine.
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

ok...now I need to go eat breakfast....I'm tired are you? Sorry for the long post. Them'z a lot of words!
post #43 of 132
Zorro, When you say scripture, are you referring to just the Bible or also the BOM?
post #44 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katala View Post
I'm not a Christian, but I consider Mormonism to be a sect of Christianity; absolutely. I felt the same way when I was Christian, as did many other Christians that I knew/know.
Katala - you are the first Christian (or former Christian) who I've ever heard say that. My experience has been different
post #45 of 132
Bible...King James...said as I drip cereal on my keyboard.
post #46 of 132
i would classify myself as a former christian.. but i no longer believe, i'm agnostic now i guess.

anyways, right now, i feel like anyone who has jesus as the central point of their religion is a christian... a follower of christ. to me, it doesn't matter about baptism or whether you think god is 3in1 or 3 separate beings... i don't really care.. if you follow christ, you are a christian. and within christianity, there are soooooo many different believe systems or denominations.

now when i did classify myself as a christian, i was taught that none are 'true' christians unless they were born again... so all mormons would have been classified as non-christians. i'm hoping it was just the particular church i attended, they were very conservative... they actually would have classified almost all other denominations as cults... including catholics, anglicans, jw's, etc. i found that very offesive, and was part of the reason why i left.
post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZorroZ View Post
Bible...King James...said as I drip cereal on my keyboard.
Thanks Enjoy your breakfast!
post #48 of 132
Southern Baptist pastors wife here:

I am curious to those of you on this board that are LDS- if you decided to join a southern baptist church or a lutheran church or a catholic church would your LDS friends still consider you a Christian who is going to heaven? If not then I don't see how it makes sense to declare that LDS and Christian are not all that different.

Our church does not believe baptism saves people and I have a lot of friends of many different denominations that I believe are Christians- some were dunked, some were sprinkled, some may have never been baptized at all- its just a symbol to us, not an essential part of what it means to be a Christian. Some grew up in a baptist church and now attend a Lutheran church. We don't have to agree on how to baptize to all be Christians. That is not an essential doctrine. (and for the record our church does not make someone who has been baptized by immersion in another Christian church get rebaptized before they can become members.)

However our church does have a few members who were a part of the LDS church for a while and they will tell you that they left LDS because when they first joined they thought it was just another denomination but the more they learned the more they realized it was very different from other Christian denominations. That doesn't make LDS bad people, on the contrary they seem to be absolutely wonderful, I have mormond friends and they are some of the sweetest people I know. But our religious beliefs are very different.
post #49 of 132
THANKS, Zorroz for sticking up for us! I was thinking about posting the AoF here too, it seems so appropriate for expressing all of our basic views. I think you've said it all. I haven't posted much because I'm not very eloquent nor very history-based, secular in my knowledge of the gospel and Christianity's roots, which is the kind of proofs they seem to be looking for here, but thanks so much for posting!

I was reading parts of this thread to my mother (who is as devout Mormon as I am) and she was like, "why are you reading this?" hehehe
post #50 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
zorro - I did not mean to offend you. What I meant was - the only people I have ever heard claim Mormons are Christians, are Mormons. I have heard lots of people (outside of Lutehrans) agree that Lutherans are Christians. Sam for Catholics, United Church of Christ-ers, etc. I have only ever heard Mormons claim they are Christian. I didn't say I agreed with them or not. I have know idea if you are a Christian. THat's between you and God.
Actually, I have counted at least three non-Mormons on this thread (myself included) who think that Mormons are Christians. Yes, Mormonism is very different from Catholicism or evangelism, but Quakerism is as different form these sects as Mormonism. I've never heard anyone say the Quakers aren't Christian. I think that saying that Mormons are non-Christian is simply prejudice.
post #51 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangewallflower View Post
Actually, I have counted at least three non-Mormons on this thread (myself included) who think that Mormons are Christians. Yes, Mormonism is very different from Catholicism or evangelism, but Quakerism is as different form these sects as Mormonism. I've never heard anyone say the Quakers aren't Christian. I think that saying that Mormons are non-Christian is simply prejudice.

Again, I am only basing this on my own personal experience. I guess now I could say, that, outside of this thread, I have never heard anyone other than Mormomns claim that Mormons are Christian. I want to reiterate - I have no idea who is and who is not a Christian. That is between that person and God.
post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangewallflower View Post
Actually, I have counted at least three non-Mormons on this thread (myself included) who think that Mormons are Christians. Yes, Mormonism is very different from Catholicism or evangelism, but Quakerism is as different form these sects as Mormonism. I've never heard anyone say the Quakers aren't Christian. I think that saying that Mormons are non-Christian is simply prejudice.
No, Quakerism isn't really. It's true that there are Quakers who are for all essential purposes more like Deists or Pantheists, but even those worldviews are closer to Christianity than Mormonism, as are many forms of paganism, Hinduism, etc.

All the above mentioned consider god, or whatever they call the basic underlying reality, to be non-material, or in pantheism to have a non-material aspect, and to be in some sense unitary.

This is different from Mormonism which, although it concentrates on one particular god, is not really monotheistic, and is materialistic (in the philosophical rather than economic sense.)

These are some of the most basic elements of how any worldview or religion interprets reality, so I would say any substantial differences at this level equate to a radical difference.
post #53 of 132
DH put this a really useful way: When considering one religion, it makes more sense to evaluate the merit of the beliefs rather than to categorize them one way or another.

So what if Mormonism and mainstream Christianity are fundamentally different? There are similar large gaps between Buddhism and Hinduism and Judaism, etc. There is value in all of those religions. Anyone who is seeking further understanding of those religions should be looking closely at the belief system and not just the categories and making a decision based on what feels right to them.

Just my .02.
post #54 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama View Post
This, in my opinion catagorizes them as "non-christian" because the bible says it is by grace we are saved. and then because of what has been done within us, good works will follow. good works have nothing to do with going to heaven. they are a product of God's mercy and grace in our lives.
Sola fide (Saved by grace/faith alone) as theology came about via Martin Luther in the 16th century. Once again, evidence of theology changing throughout time. You can read more about its history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

It did not exist in Christian theology since the beginning. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have...or is in error... but it's attributed to Martin Luther.
post #55 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post
Sola fide (Saved by grace/faith alone) as theology came about via Martin Luther in the 16th century. Once again, evidence of theology changing throughout time. You can read more about its history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

It did not exist in Christian theology since the beginning. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have...or is in error... but it's attributed to Martin Luther.
True. During the dark ages the Bible was in a sense locked up. Only the clergy could read it. The services were in Latin and the lay people couldn't understand Latin. Many people lost there lives to put the Bible in the hands of the laymen, translated into their own language. So many truths have come to light since the dark ages because different people see something in the Word and it becomes known to others. One could say that we are standing on the shoulders of so many who came before us.
post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post
Sola fide (Saved by grace/faith alone) as theology came about via Martin Luther in the 16th century. Once again, evidence of theology changing throughout time. You can read more about its history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

It did not exist in Christian theology since the beginning. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have...or is in error... but it's attributed to Martin Luther.
I will bookmark this link and read it over later..... I should have gotten off the computer and into other things quite a while ago.... I just find this so interesting.
If you read John 2:12-22, you read that Jesus went into the Jewish temple, where they had a market place set up, all kinds of goods, and he cleared it out. He said the market had no place in the temple of God and drove out the cattle, etc, got everything out.
He says in vs19 "Destroy this temple and I will raise it up again in three days". Saying that He was the temple.
When I read Jesus' words to the Pharisees, I see his attempt to do the same thing. Clear our spiritual temples of all the "spiritual marketplace goods" that we have bought.
At that time Judiasm had become something that put great emphasis on things that don't come from God or lead us to him, and Jesus was saying, "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father escept by me."

This is what I see Martin Luther having done. Saying "look to Jesus, look to God. These priests have no authority over your salvation"
post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebirdiemama View Post
I will bookmark this link and read it over later..... I should have gotten off the computer and into other things quite a while ago.... I just find this so interesting.
If you read John 2:12-22, you read that Jesus went into the Jewish temple, where they had a market place set up, all kinds of goods, and he cleared it out. He said the market had no place in the temple of God and drove out the cattle, etc, got everything out.
He says in vs19 "Destroy this temple and I will raise it up again in three days". Saying that He was the temple.
When I read Jesus' words to the Pharisees, I see his attempt to do the same thing. Clear our spiritual temples of all the "spiritual marketplace goods" that we have bought.
At that time Judiasm had become something that put great emphasis on things that don't come from God or lead us to him, and Jesus was saying, "I am the way, the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father escept by me."

This is what I see Martin Luther having done. Saying "look to Jesus, look to God. These priests have no authority over your salvation"
Since you brought up the fact the Jesus is the temple, this is another difference when comparing LDS and Christianity. Mormons believe the temple is the actual house of God. I am assuming they are taking this from the OT. As a previous poster said, there are certain places within the temple that only certain people can go.

Here's another passage in John 4. Jesus is trying to tell the woman at the well that soon you won't need to go to Jerusalem to worship because those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit. It is not a physical place. We can worship the Lord anywhere because He indwells us.
John 4
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain, yet you say that in Jerusalem is the place where men must worship.

21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

22 You worship that which you do not know; we worship that which we know, for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But an hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truthfulness, for the Father also seeks such to worship Him.

24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truthfulness.

The capitol 'S' Spirit is God. We have a human spirit, lower case 's'. God as Spirit enters into our human spirit and indwells us.

1 Cor 6:17

17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.

Wow, we can be joined to the Lord and worship Him in spirit anywhere and anytime, and no body can forbid us access!
post #58 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
I think this is probably true. Also, I think, usually, the only peoople who consider Mormons Christian, are Mormons.
I'm a Presbyterian and I think of Mormons as Christians, but I generally believe that anyone who professes belief in Jesus Christ and accepts his sacrifice for their redemption is a Christian, as distinguised from other world religions where that belief is not present. That doesn't mean, like other people who call themselves Christians, that I don't have an opinion about their particular practices in relation to what they profess as their belief. It's just that the use of the term Christian is largely useless to me in determining anything other than just that one facet of a person's beliefs.

I know the Jehovah's Witnesses who come to my house believe I am a member of a false religion, I know that my daughter's LDS friends thought the same of her (and even told her so), I know that some of my Catholic friends believe that *I* can't be a Christian because of some of my beliefs, I know that certain fundamentalist protestant sects of Christianity would never call Christian anything other than those who adhere to their set of beliefs. It doesn't really matter to me if someone says I'm a Christian or not, because if they grant that I am one, but then say my beliefs are wrong and I will not receive God's salvation, there's nothing more to say, really.

My comments add nothing to this discussion, but I just wanted to reiterate the point already made that the question of who is and isn't a Christian is answered differently by different people. From an historical context, or from someone outside Christianity, Mormons would be considered part of Christianity. My mother, also a Presbyterian, says that Mormons are not Christians. However, I feel that what she is really trying to say with that statement with is that she thinks their theology is wrong and they have no right to call themselves Christians. Most religions seem to think theirs is the right one and the others, while close, are not quite true. To me, looking from the context of religion throughout history, the LDS church is currently too close to Christianity to be considered a stand alone religion.
post #59 of 132
I am going to take my time to respond.

Peace.
post #60 of 132
I would just like to throw a website out there for anyone looking for real answers about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. http://www.mormon.org

I converted 14 years ago. I can guarantee that the information presented on that website is true because I live it every day of my life. My family and I worship Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of the Father. We strive continually to be more and more like Him. If that doesn't fit your brand of Christianity that is just fine with me because I feel complete and utter peace over the path that we have chosen.


Matt. 7:20 Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

Following the teachings of the LDS church has brought more "good fruit" into my life than I have room to list. We are reaping the blessings. That is all the confirmation that I need to know that *I* am on the right path. I would not begrudge or condemn anyone if they felt that their beliefs have them on the right path. I hope everyone has that blessing in their life!
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