Want to cry! Plus sourdough Q.

[applecider]

We have trying to eat TF for awhile now, at least a year. I have suspected food allergies causing my 4yo DSs ADD like behavior and so I got him a blood test and it came back high for gluten, eggs, coconut and med for dairy. ACK!! We have sourdough bread with pastured butter daily as well as raw milk. I think the kid would starve if he couldn't have that. Plus I just got another gallon of coconut oil.

I'm at a loss of what to do. I can't really do an elimination diet right now because he eats snack at preschool and I can't control what they are eating. I'm pretty sure he would be very upset if he couldn't have snack, that's his favorite part!

I did get him started on a digestive enzyme and probiotic, but I'm thinking I need to do some fermented veggies.

Any advice?

On a side note, if I don't use my sourdough starter for awhile, will it keep?

[serenbat]

eats snack at preschool and I can't control what they are eating

yes you can, you have the right to know what he is going to have and many parents send along what they want their child to have

[applecider]

I know but it's a co-op and a different parent brings the snack daily. I think it would be majorly hard to enforce him not eating pretzels, yogurt, what have you. He's only four, I don't think he'll understand that all the other kids can eat the stuff and he can't. I'm thinking of starting the elimination diet after preschool is out and just really cutting down at home.

[425lisamarie]

First of all you CAN and you MUST control what he eats. I am saying this with the utmost respect and compassion because I"ve been there (sometimes things come out wrong via typing.)

FIrst thing is to explain to him about his body needs certain foods to grow big and strong and not be sick, and certain foods right now are not good for him. WE need to work together to make you snacks and meals you love and you can bring to school, and will keep you happy, strong and healthy.

I know it seems like the end of the world, but slowly you will see it's not that bad.

You can make oat bars without eggs, lilke with fruit and spices and oats or rice.
I have always though GF bread is not so good, my kids don't really like it because it is quite different. HOWEVER, I can make the BEST darn GF waffles/pancakes in the world. I would say waffles are best, you can use them like toast even. If you are medium for dairy, you can try being really strict on the other stuff and still do a little raw milk.

Do you need help with meals or just snacks? There are COUNTLESS things you can make without eggs or gluten. You can buy so many packaged snacks these days too.

Sometimes I buy the organic puffed rice cereal and make bars with that, it's SO good. I know TF is important, but I would be willing to make small compromises to get a child to eat enough when allergies make a diet change quite drastic.

I posted before reading your response....at 4 he aboslutely will understand. My DD is 3.5 and has for a very long while. She will ask/tell anyone offering her food, "does it have eggs or nuts?" She very much appreciates and understands.

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by cody'smomma

We have trying to eat TF for awhile now, at least a year. I have suspected food allergies causing my 4yo DSs ADD like behavior and so I got him a blood test and it came back high for gluten, eggs, coconut and med for dairy. ACK!! We have sourdough bread with pastured butter daily as well as raw milk. I think the kid would starve if he couldn't have that. Plus I just got another gallon of coconut oil.

I'm at a loss of what to do. I can't really do an elimination diet right now because he eats snack at preschool and I can't control what they are eating. I'm pretty sure he would be very upset if he couldn't have snack, that's his favorite part!

I did get him started on a digestive enzyme and probiotic, but I'm thinking I need to do some fermented veggies.

Any advice?

On a side note, if I don't use my sourdough starter for awhile, will it keep?

sounds really challenging, but if your child is allergic or has allergic/sensitive responses to these things why would you continue feeding them?

he's 4, he will eat what is served by you, and if his preschool cant understand his allergies i would consider switching schools. these allergies are much more common then people realize.

was the blood test for dairy or casein? if it was for casein he could still probably eat ghee, which is butter with all the milk protien, ie. casein, cooked out of it. plus its delicious. there are lots of great gluten free and even grain-free breads available commercially and cookbooks with recipes.

[applecider]

Originally Posted by organicmidwestmama

sounds really challenging, but if your child is allergic or has allergic/sensitive responses to these things why would you continue feeding them?

he's 4, he will eat what is served by you, and if his preschool cant understand his allergies i would consider switching schools. these allergies are much more common then people realize.

was the blood test for dairy or casein? if it was for casein he could still probably eat ghee, which is butter with all the milk protien, ie. casein, cooked out of it. plus its delicious. there are lots of great gluten free and even grain-free breads available commercially and cookbooks with recipes.

I guess because I figured one more month of occasional gluten stuff at school would not be that big of deal as opposed to one month of a meltdown at school everyday. 'Then I would have the whole summer to figure things out. Plus, I wasn't sure how accurate those blood tests were, I've heard conflicting things. It's not like he's breaking out in a rash when he eats gluten. Frankly, I've never really noticed a difference for instance he could go a day without gluten and then have some sourdough toast and it isn't like I can tell that he's any different. I was just thinking his overall mood and being able to listen might be better.

His preschool can understand allergies I just hate to make everyone else deal with a tantrum everyday when I could just wait a month. I am going to use this month to gear myself up for gluten-free recipes and such. I don't think I could do it overnight so it's going to have to be gradual.

FWIW I really don't think he'll understand since there is no immediate reaction. Being healthy is kind of abstract and all he knows is that he wants the thing that tastes good. But if I don't have those things in the house, he won't be able to eat them.

Thanks for all your responses, I think I'll go post in the allergy forums too.

[applecider]

Originally Posted by 425lisamarie

Do you need help with meals or just snacks? There are COUNTLESS things you can make without eggs or gluten. You can buy so many packaged snacks these days too.

I guess I just am at a loss. I know how to make gf pancakes, but what about the egg? Also, if he can't have butter/coconut oil, that leaves me with ghee and maybe lard? Don't know where I can get that.

It's just a bummer because I have worked so hard to be more TF soaking, buying the raw milk and now I feel like I have to start all over again and be even more strict. It's hard enough as is. That's all, just bummed.

[organicmidwestmama]

the thing about gluten allergy, o any allergy for that matter, is that ust because a person doesn't have an immediate "reaction" does not mean it isnt affecting that person negatively. also, it can take weeks for the allergen to fully leave a person digestive/blood system.

i found lard from pastured pigs, which is a good source of vit d, at my local farmers market at my local health food co-op for about 4-5$/lb. ghee is more expensive, but purity farms makes an organic one sold at coops for about 10$/lb, or you can make your own, lots of tutorials on the web.

www.elanaspantry.com has lots of wheat-free/grain-free/even some egg free recipes for baked goods. she also has a great cook book.

i personally dont think youre son needs to feel deprived. Enjoy Life brand of cookies and snacks are all egg/gluten/casein/soy free and available at whole foods, co-ops, etc. you could send these types of treats with ds to school.

also, interestingly enough, even non-celiac people can be gluten intolerant, and according to this article and many other articles ive read, up to 15% of the population is non-celiac gluten intolerant. a primary symptom is behavioral probelms. it doesn't need to present itself as a rash or anaphylaxis for a food to be causing damage.

[Shellie]

Originally Posted by cody'smomma

I know but it's a co-op and a different parent brings the snack daily. I think it would be majorly hard to enforce him not eating pretzels, yogurt, what have you. He's only four, I don't think he'll understand that all the other kids can eat the stuff and he can't. I'm thinking of starting the elimination diet after preschool is out and just really cutting down at home.

I had severe asthma as well as a severe milk allergy and starting at age 4, I was sent to school with a snack/drink from home and as I got into all-day school, I would bring little cans of apple juice (this was in the days before juice boxes and pouches LOL) to have instead of the milk served at school. I knew not to eat anything else and my teacher knew my dietary restrictions as well. I think at four it would be fine for you to not allow him to eat the shared snack if you explain to him why it's important.

[artemis33]

: I know this is hard. I don't blame you for wanting to ease into it esp with only a month of school left.

And idea though..at my DD's preschool the parents sign up to provide snacks. Sometimes we are assigned something specific to bring and others it is totally open. There is only one little girl with some food allergies, so at the beginning of the month, the teacher provides her mom with a calender which says who is signed up for snack, and if the snack is assigned, what it is. This way, the mom can determine whether it is something safe or not - or she can talk directly with the parent to figure it out. She does not expect the parent to accommodate the allegies (though many of us do! ) but once she knows what the other kids are having, she sends something as close as possible from home for her daughter so her snack is at least similar to everyone else's. This really helps her daughter not to feel deprived.

Now that might be more than you are interested in taking on in the short term, but perhaps it could work in the future?

Good luck mama! :

[vancouverlori]

Originally Posted by cody'smomma

He's only four, I don't think he'll understand that all the other kids can eat the stuff and he can't.

DS has *extensive* food sensitivities, to most grains, egg, dairy, soy, corn, most fruit (including apples, tomatoes and peppers of all kinds). They get used to it, they really do. But you're right, there will be tantrums initially, especially since that's part of the reaction that he needs to clear (expect it to take 4-6 weeks). Also, it sounds like he's reacting to the common allergens that are present in large amounts in his diet. So he may be sensitive to many other things... (Those blood tests won't show sensitivity to something if the patient hasn't had that food in the prior 3 weeks or so.) You may want to consider a well-laid out elimination diet. At the suggestion of his daycare, I used a book called "The Core Diet for Kids", and they lay it out very carefully, which makes it much easier to follow. It's also pretty healthy, and very vegetable-focused. If you have any trouble finding it (it's now out of print), e-mail me and I can send you a good summary of the book.

Once his reaction has cleared up, he is definitely old enough to see the difference if somehow something he reacts to gets in his diet, which makes it easier for him to understand.

It can also help if the whole family goes on the elimination diet, especially at first, and who knows what you might discover? We discovered that DH reacts to sweet potatoes and squashes (we already knew he didn't tolerate dairy) and DD reacts to dairy, and now possibly wheat and definitely eggs. It's a solidarity thing with your DS, but it also simplifies food prep (I actually found that it was even easier than my normal food prep, because it was just boiled or steamed food, no fancy prep.)

Originally Posted by artemis33

but once she knows what the other kids are having, she sends something as close as possible from home

This is what I like to do. I don't expect, or even *want* anyone else to accommodate DS' allergies. No one is going to be as vigilant as I am (not even DH, though he only slips up slightly more often than I do). It's even really hard for me to remember exactly all the "no" foods to make a complete list. I just like to be able to provide an equivalent food so he doesn't feel entirely left out. It usually works well except for pizza. Pizza is pretty much impossible to fake with DS' limitations.

425lisamarie, I'd love to have some of your recipes!!! I've got a pretty reliable GF bread recipe (google "miracle white bread"), which is something that's hard to find because most use egg to hold them together. But waffles and pancakes... I make buckwheat pancakes, but he only likes them a little.

And there are still plenty of traditional foods he'll be able to have. If you follow an elimination diet, it might take a few weeks or months to get back to them, but soon. And if your traditional diet is very grain and dairy-heavy, it may be a good thing to return the focus to veggies. People always marvel at DS' willingness to eat veggies, especially green ones, but he likes them because there isn't much else for him to like!

Also, bone broths are quite healthy (there's a thread about Growth Hormone Deficiency where someone brought this up) and can make a great replacement for dairy, while still being a traditional food. I had given up making broths for DS because he was tolerating one brand of tetra-pak stuff, but knowing now how healthy bone broths are, I'm going back to making my own.

[applecider]

Originally Posted by organicmidwestmama

the thing about gluten allergy, o any allergy for that matter, is that ust because a person doesn't have an immediate "reaction" does not mean it isnt affecting that person negatively. also, it can take weeks for the allergen to fully leave a person digestive/blood system

.......

i personally dont think youre son needs to feel deprived. Enjoy Life brand of cookies and snacks are all egg/gluten/casein/soy free and available at whole foods, co-ops, etc. you could send these types of treats with ds to school.

also, interestingly enough, even non-celiac people can be gluten intolerant, and according to this article and many other articles ive read, up to 15% of the population is non-celiac gluten intolerant. a primary symptom is behavioral probelms. it doesn't need to present itself as a rash or anaphylaxis for a food to be causing damage.

Yes, I know this, that's why I said I thought it would improve his mood. He was on a gluten-free diet about 2 years ago due to some other issues (speech). I don't think my son needs to feel deprived either. I suppose I could send something gluten-free and hope that all the parents get the message. Again, it's a co-op preschool so in any given month there are 12 different people bringing snack. I don't know what they are all going to bring on any given day.

Artemis - thanks for the understanding, that's more what I was looking for.

Vancouver Lori- Thanks for the info, that will be helpful!

I do appreciate all your comments and I will give it some serious thought. Tonight we're going to a friend's for dinner and when asked if there were any food restrictions I did tell them about the gluten and said that if they are making pizza or something (what they had said they were having) that we would bring something for DS to have.

If you have some favorite gf/cf/ef/tf I'd love to know what they are. Preferably not packaged items.

[organicmidwestmama]

some gluten-free cookbooks that i like and that have casien-free recipes too include-

the spunky coconut cookbook and website- all her recipes are gf/cf http://www.thespunkycoconut.com/

the almond flour cookbook and her website have lots of gf and some cf options- http://www.elanaspantry.com/recipes/

the grainfree gourmet cookbook http://www.grainfreegourmet.com/


and this one http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Well-Feel-.../dp/0307339947

[vancouverlori]

I haven't invested in any cookbooks because most of them would only have a couple of recipes we could use. So I've just learned some great substitutions, and modify and adapt my own recipes. Baked goods take the most creativity. Sometimes I find something we can use online, but again, I have to reject most recipes. (egg - skip. banana - skip. apple - skip. corn - skip. soy - skip. flax - skip. etc...)

If he tolerates flax (my DS doesn't) - you can use it to make a *great* egg substitute in recipes.

Reliable bread recipe: Miracle White Bread - scroll down for the recipe.

Also explore other types of foods - we do lots of asian-inspired dishes (Asian shops are *great* sources of varied rice noodles and other rice stuff like "rice cakes"). I've made Dosa before - they're a fermented rice-based pancake. DS didn't like them much, and they were a fair bit of trouble to make, but I suppose with the normal yummy savoury fillings it would be a different story (DS can't have anything with chilies or paprika either). That particular recipe talks about using a "trouble light" shining into the oven, but however you normally raise your sourdough bread should do. (I just leave the oven light on and stick a wooden spoon in to keep the door ajar.) Don't leave out the fenugreek - it's apparently important to get the fermenting beasties going. Apparently there's a restaurant near me that sells the Dosa batter, so maybe if there's a significant population of southeast Asian people in your city, you might find such a restaurant too.

[applecider]

Thanks ladies! It's funny you should say that Vancouver, because I made dosas for breakfast yesterday! They are a bit dense, but ds had them before and liked them ok. DP was less than impressed, but maybe I need to add a bit more water to the batter. I definitely realize that other cultures do not rely on gluten or dairy so I am trying to figure out what they have in their daily diet and focus more on those items. We do like to eat ethnic foods!

What I meant to say in that other post was if you had ideas for snacks/lunch/breakfast. Not necessarily recipes, but actual food items. Like for instance, yesterday we had dosas for breakfast (I had them with beans). Just what some of your kids' favorite snacks are. I'm going to bring some rice crackers today to school and talk with whoever brought snack. I did kind of talk to ds about it last night but I"ll talk again with him this morning.

Also, coconut came back kind of high on the list too. So what to I put on his pancakes or steamed veggies? No butter or coconut oil, how do I make sure he's getting the fat? Ghee I guess would be one thing. Any other suggestions? And smoothies? I usually use kefir or coconut milk but those are out now. How do I get fat into a smoothie?

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by cody'smomma

...Also, coconut came back kind of high on the list too. So what to I put on his pancakes or steamed veggies? No butter or coconut oil, how do I make sure he's getting the fat? Ghee I guess would be one thing. Any other suggestions? And smoothies? I usually use kefir or coconut milk but those are out now. How do I get fat into a smoothie?

pastured lard- http://www.localharvest.org/open-ket...2.5-4-lb-C8350 is great for cooking, it has a very high smoke point, as is duck fat (though its really pricey usually and often imported), grass-fed beef or lamb tallow- http://www.grasslandbeef.com/Detail.bok?no=719. ghee is yummy, its my favorite cf fat! heres a ghee i like-http://www.purityfarms.com/.

red palm oil- http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/red_palm_oil.htm is a good fat similar to coconut oil you could put into a smoothie-

[vancouverlori]

I'd watch the red palm oil - it would likely have similar allergens to the coconut oil.

(excuse any non-TF suggestions here, I'm still working on incorporating TF into our diet.)

Dosas - yes you can add water to the batter - it should be thinner than normal pancake batter. And then traditionally, the cook uses the ladle or cup he pours the batter with the spread the batter out thinly - it should be thin like a crepe.

I guess fat is something I haven't worried about enough in DS' diet. We use lots of sunflower seed oil in cooking and so on. DS eats lots of potato chips as his "junk food". He's sensitive to coconut and palm, so we avoid that. We also keep his butter intake low, but fortunately he does tolerate a little. But at first, I would avoid even ghee - the common allergenic components of milk are those that stick to fats (that's how they get through the gut wall). Once you've got him all sorted out for a month or - better yet - two, then you can try adding it back.

For snacks, we are very fond of beans. We also like sunflower seed butter - there's a brand called "Sun Butter" that tastes delicious, but it does have sugar in it (other brands and the organic version all taste a bit bitter and he won't eat them.) Those are the only "quick and easy" protein sources for him (he can't have nuts). Another thing he likes is fish - sardines and herring straight out of the can, usually with rice, sometimes rice crackers. He'd eat tuna every day, but of course with all that mercury we don't let him. We've also bought little dried fish at the chinese market that he thought were cool - he ate them whole!

You could even use a thicker Dosa-type batter to make some sort of cracker... hmm...

Fats for smoothies... I guess you're looking for more of a solid fat, but you could add some flaxseed oil - it's supposed to be beneficial for allergies anyway. And if you're using lots of fruit, avoid using rice milk as the liquid because it curdles. : And it might not work in smoothies, but you could use cocoa butter in other things...

We usually make DS oatmeal for breakfast - it helps to counteract the constipating effects of all the rice he gets and all the fruit he can't have. He gets it with maple syrup and rice milk. Sometimes he wants chocolate too - we add a square of Lindt 70% cocoa chocolate (no soy or dairy).

[organicmidwestmama]

many veggie oils, like sunflower are subject to rancidity and can increase inflamation in our bodies. im not an expert on fats but rec. reading about fats on the wapf site or getting mary enigs book about fats.