Suggestions needed: sad bedtimes at Daddy's house

[RollerCoasterMama]

We are in separate houses as of Christmas. Very amicable. Very flexible. DS turned 3 about the same time. We do phone calls or video chats every night. When he's with me, he occaisionally cries for Daddy, but not too often, and usually in response to when he's upset at me. When he's with STBX (we aim for EOW plus a school night on his off-weeks), when it gets close enough that he thinks about bedtime, he's been really upset. We tried Thurs - Sun at Daddy's and mutually agreed that it was too long for him. He was just too upset. He missed his school-night visit because STBX and DS were both sick, but saw him over the weekend--just no overnights. So the last weekend visit was this past weekend. We were going for Fri-Sun to see if that worked better. Saturday night, STBX called and said he was just inconsolable and had been sobbing for 20 mins. I came to get him (he stopped crying immediately when I told him to help Daddy pack his suitcase---which was the goal). He spent Saturday night at my house, and then went back over on Sunday for the day. That was fine.

Last night was a school-night visit. And during our Skype, he just sobbed "I want my Mommy!" the whole time. Both STBX and I are hesitant to have me swoop in and rescue him every time, but we both hate that he's so sad.

The do great most of the time---it's just when he's tired and starts thinking about bedtime. They have a great relationship. STBX is still in our old house, so he's sleeping in his old room on his old bed, with familiar toys. It really seems to be about missing me.

HELP! When I initially moved, he spent the first week or so crying for a few minutes each night that he wanted his daddy and want to go HOME. But he had me and the new house became routine.

STBX feels like the worst dad in the world with this going on and his future involvement with DS hinges on him NOT feeling like that---his past history is to avoid what gets hard.

Any suggestions to smooth things over? I don't want to give up overnights altogether, but do you think that would help temporarily? And just have him spend the rest of the day with Daddy? We've already gone from three to two and now even one night seems really tough.

I'm grateful that we're not counting minutes and worried about my-time/your-time---maybe more quicky visits for a while?? I almost think STBX would agree to bring him back at bedtime if I suggested it. He won't because he's afraid to look like he doesn't want to be with his son. He's also afraid it will undermine spending time at his house. I could definitely use some input.

[Holland73]

I think that consistency, consistency & more consistency is the key.

How old is your ds?

If it were me:

I would go back to one night a week for, at least, one-two months.

Talk to your ds about what he can do when he gets upset and sad because he misses you. Do not allow your resuing him be an option, especially since your X seems (from your post) to be such a great and concerned dad. Let them figure it out together.

Perhaps even brainstorm with your X some ideas of what he can do to help your dc. Remind him to validate your dc's feelings and tell him it is OK to miss mommy, but then shift the focus onto something fun they can do together to help the time go by faster. See if your X is willing to set up some kind of daily routine they do together EVERY night your ds stays with him.

Additionally, the skype-ing communication probably makes it even more difficult for your dc. I know it would for me or my ds. IMHO, since it would only be for one night, I wouldn't have any contact.

After a month or two, check in and see if it is good time to add another night.

Consistency and routine is going to be the key.

[RollerCoasterMama]

He turned 3 after Christmas.

I did some brainstorming about alternatives and emailed STBX to see if he had some other ideas. He would really be the one to choose. Me swooping in with a fix seems like it would undermine him. I'm really trying to keep him as involved as I can. (He just emailed that he'd think about it we'll talk about it more tonight.)

I like the idea of one night overnights---that could keep the consistancy of overnights, but make it less to deal with. For one night, not Skyping would be easier. I asked STBX what the triggers are. I think the timing of our Skype conversation being at bedtime is more coincidence because frequently the crying starts closer to supper time (when he's really tired) than bedtime. Then pops back up when we try to talk.

I think he still does the same routine. It's one he started last summer when I purposefully stepped back so they could practice Daddy doing bedtime in the 6 months before I moved out. I do the same thing at my house. DS actually goes to bed better for him than for me -- less back and forth. But I'm more likely to lay down with him and he he always crawls in with me in the middle of the night. So we just have a little different relationship.

It seems like this is just going to take time. I would love to find something that empowers STBX in this transition--he needs some Super Daddy points, but mostly, DS is SO sad and STBX is pretty miserable about it too. But their non-overnights seem to go great!

[RollerCoasterMama]

p.s. Do you think a new special Mommy-lovey -- a soft toy or blanket that I make him -- would help? He's not really a lovey kind of kid. He has toys and blankets he likes, but no one thing. Before the move, I had a Daddy bear made for him out of one of my husband's old Air Force uniforms. He likes it, but it's mostly a normal toy. But maybe something that ALWAYS goes in his little suitcase to Daddy's?

Overthinking it??

[Holland73]

3 is still pretty young and I would definitely keep it to only 1 overnight a week for a few months. Don't expect it to be easy initially, but know that it will get better. Adjustment takes time and lots of consistency.

What would REALLY help is for him to have some kind of special routine that ONLY he and daddy do when they are at daddy's house. Something he would never or rarely do at your home, perhaps like reading 4 books instead of 2 at bedtime, etc. Just something really special that he ONLY shares with daddy. Ykwim? Its a bonding ritual. My ds has them with me and also ones when he stay with my parents.

As for the mommy-lovey idea, I don't know if I would call it a mommy-lovey... but more of just a special lovey. My ds has a special blankie he takes with him when staying with my parents and will use it to calm/comfort himself when he is feeling anxious, sad, angry, etc.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

He's not really a lovey kind of kid.

Overthinking it??

If he doesn't attach to one particular item, don't worry about it. He will find what works best for him. Keep an eye out for what he does lean towards during his rougher moments at home.

In kindergarten, my ds had a very difficult time. He found a "mommy rock" at school one day that apparently reminded him of me. He took that rock in his pocket everyday in the beginning because "it makes me feel better." Eventually, he started leaving at home.

Your ds is VERY lucky to have BOTH you and your Xh to love and help him through this kind of transition. Transitions are hard for everyone, adults and children alike. But, with time, love, understanding and patience... it all works out.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Thanks everyone. I'll keep all of the suggestions in mind when we have our nightly chat. (Not too surprisingly, the evening call is mostly us talking except for the actual good-night kisses. DS isn't that into it, though Skyping holds his attention more.)

Appreciate you all taking the time to give me input. We'll get there.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Quicky update...we talked about different ideas and STBX thought about it for a while---not that I don't have major input, but I am trying to facilitate him feeling like an co-parent, not just weekend-dad. He was afraid it would look like he didn't want to spend time with DS, but also is afraid to push the issue before DS is ready and make it last longer. So...where we've landed at for now is:

Keep EOW visits at Daddy's house, but only overnight for Saturday. He'll pick up DS from preschool on Fridays and bring him home to me by bedtime. Then I'll bring him over on Saturday morning for the rest of the weekend.

Try to keep the off-week overnights as well as much as his schedule allows. This isn't always an overnight because work messes around with it, but he at least picks him up and has him until bedtime. (We only live a few miles apart so it's easy to transport.)

Additionally, STBX has seen the value of throwing in more unscheduled little visits...on off-weekends for a couple of hours here and there, and picking him up from school for a couple of hours when he gets off work on time.

Hopefully the cummulative effect will be to lower the stress of hanging at Daddy's. Build up a routine again. And once the single-overnights are smooth, then we'll work on adding a second.

The funny thing is that he goes to bed for STBX without a peep! He's got that DOWN! It's just the missing me part that is adding stress to their evenings--when he was at the in-laws over Christmas, he was too busy to miss me, so he didn't have any problems at all---cousins and grandparents everywhere...I wouldn't miss me either! I don't even care if Daddy's is Disneyland-house...positive associations are good. They do things their way, we do things our way.

So thanks again for being a sounding board. Hopefully if we do this for a few months, he'll be into a routine by summer.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by RollerCoasterMama

not that I don't have major input, but I am trying to facilitate him feeling like an co-parent, not just weekend-dad.

Which is wonderful and as it should be!

Your ds is VERY lucky to have two parents that love him as much as you and your X. And, to have a mama that knows his relationship with his father is not just an additive, but a necessity, to his life.

Your X sounds like a great daddy... too bad there aren't more examples of such daddies on this board. Sadly, I believe they are VERY underrepresented on this board, which is unfortunate.

[blessedwithboys]

you guys seem to be doing awesome! for my kids, age three was waaayy too young for more than one overnight at a time. i think the shorter and more freqent visits are a great idea. youre an inspiration!

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by blessedwithboys

you guys seem to be doing awesome! for my kids, age three was waaayy too young for more than one overnight at a time. i think the shorter and more freqent visits are a great idea. youre an inspiration!

I think DS just seems so mature that we didn't realize it right away. He's big and verbal for his age. So we didn't think anything of it. Oh well....live and learn!! We'll get there!!!

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by Holland73

Your X sounds like a great daddy... too bad there aren't more examples of such daddies on this board. Sadly, I believe they are VERY underrepresented on this board, which is unfortunate.

Great daddy and all around guy---just very difficult to be married to--though I gave it nine years of trying!

I think there are more like him. I know more like him. But if everything's going fine, why go on MDC and write about it?

The other thing is that he learned the hard way---his real dad disappeared when it got tough and he got a new family. And even he disappeared eventually from his first family when he got behind on child support. He hasn't seen his older kids in 13 yrs. They've been adopted by their step dad. So he knows what's at stake and is determined to stop the pattern.

I'm just doing what I can. And so far, it's paying off. But there's a long road ahead!! **crossing fingers**

[lucysmom]

Just wanted to underscore the recommendation to avoid Skyping during an overnight visit. My dd, who was 2.5 when we split up, always really collapsed if we had a Skype session while she was at her dad's. It's as if it forced her to confront what she was missing (both parents with her, me with her), when otherwise, she was hanging in there OK. So now during visits, we really keep the contact with the other parent to a minimum, which she prefers.

[RollerCoasterMama]

Originally Posted by lucysmom

Just wanted to underscore the recommendation to avoid Skyping during an overnight visit. My dd, who was 2.5 when we split up, always really collapsed if we had a Skype session while she was at her dad's. It's as if it forced her to confront what she was missing (both parents with her, me with her), when otherwise, she was hanging in there OK. So now during visits, we really keep the contact with the other parent to a minimum, which she prefers.

Thank you---we'll give it a shot next weekend. That's not an angle I would have thought of until PP mentioned it.

[lucysmom]

I know -- it's surprising at first blush, but when you think about what these kids are trying to pull off, maybe not. I know my DD gears up a ways before a visit -- she may be sad about going away from me, but then shortly before it happens, she gets really matter of fact, tells me "bye bye mama" WAY ahead of time, as if to say "ok, I'm ready now." But then she really doesn't want to dip back in to the emotional waters of the separation until it is over. This allows her to take advantage of the positive aspects of where she is (feeling positive about the parent whom she is with, or the place that she is, the grandparents she is visiting, etc.) without actively mourning what is missing. She just needs other people to let her handle it without stirring the pot, as it were.

Amazing emotional resourceful in young kids.

[RollerCoasterMama]

THANK YOU MAMAS for all of the suggestions! Just resurecting this thread to say that we had a tear-free overnight this weekend! HOORAY!!!!

After a month of more frequent short visits and just one night at a time and no Skyping or phoning on the overnight...we got there!!!

The last couple of times, he's ended up pretty sad by later Sunday afternoon and STBX brought him home a little early. But this week he did awesome! It wasn't our typical schedule because of Easter. He was at Daddy's for the morning. They came back to my house after lunch for a couple of hours while we did an Easter activity. Then back to Daddy's until after naptime on Sunday when we had a little Easter celebration and dinner together with all three of us.

DS said he missed me, but he did great and didn't break down like he's been doing.

We talked about it and we're going to just keep up this routine for a couple of months before we add anything to it. But YAY! The relief on STBX's face when he talked about Saturday night was great to see!!! I think it was key that he realized that he needed to spend more random time with DS to get that comfort level built up--make it old hat. He's been trying to pick him up from preschool when he can and even on my weekends, he will get DS to hang out for a couple of hours if we don't have anything going on. STBX has seen that extra effort pay off almost immediately. DS is funny about those visits. When we talk to Daddy on the phone, if we say "Daddy is going to pick you up from school tomorrow!" He always responds "And bring me back home to Mommy?" "Yes" "Oh yay!!" He has more low-key visits that don't take emotional efforts and those seem to have helped the overnights that are more work for him to deal with.

I'd guess we'll be doing Friday and Saturday night by the end of the summer or fall. And he'll be heading out to the almost-ex-in-laws some time in July for a few days...but I'm not worried about that. He's always too busy to miss me when he's visiting there.

But thank you everyone for all of the great suggestions!!!!!

[Freedom~Mama]

I am so glad for you that things are going better! Everytime my girls go to their dads for a night I dread it because usually afterward he ends up telling me that they didn't go to bed until midnight and I know that they probably got screamed at and spanked. It makes me sad. Luckily they don't go over to his house often so it is nothing something I have to deal with all the time but it is still hard for me.