HOW do you get kids to help around the house when they just refuse?

[jrabbit]

background: I was raised by fear and spanking. I was not given a choice about helping with housework. I just had to do it. I'm sure I was punished if I ever said anything sassy to my parents. My daughters are 10 (Annie), 6 (Molly) & 1 - we homeschool. We've had a rough year. I'm trying to get a sense of normalcy around here, but I keep backsliding. The children have absolutely NO desire to help with any housework. 10yo gets an allowance because she helps with the baby in the mornings while I catch up on some sleep. However, she almost always loses it because of some awful behavior. (I pay her $5 a week on Saturday - but usually forget, so by Sunday or Monday, we have some type of fight, during which we finally start counting and say each number represents $1. She will say "you don't know where my money is" - I will remind her that she didn't get her allowance last week. If we don't actually count all the way to 5, we will pay her the remaining dollar or two right then.)

I can't just stop cleaning up after them - things get out of hand, and there is physically no way I can do it all without help. This week, we've let the house get completely wrecked, and I really have to do some cleaning and laundry today. Annie was begging me to take them for a walk later and go to the library again, but when I was cleaning up the kitchen (after I kindly made eggs for her, which she is totally capable of doing herself, but I was being generous), I asked her "would you please bring me the dishes off the table?" "no" was her answer!!! I repeated my request 3 more times as "please bring me the dishes off the table now because I am cleaning up the kitchen now."

At this point, her defiance was getting me really angry, but I didn't yell (yet). Finally, she brought me her plate, then folded her arms and said she would not bring Molly's plate because "you never make Molly clean up my stuff." (not true) I started counting, not knowing what the result would be, but the counting was more for show. She brought me Molly's plate at two. Then announced she would not bring Molly's breakfast bowl because Molly should have done that long ago. At that moment, Molly came back to the door, and I asked her to take her leftover milk to the chickens = at the same time, I told Annie that she wouldn't be getting "the thing she had just asked me to do for her" (the walk), so she wanted to take the bowl, but I gave it to Molly. Now, Annie is madder - and she starts to sit back at the table to read. I told her to get her books and go somewhere else to read, which she argued about. I said "I'm cleaning up the kitchen, and you need to help or leave." FINALLY, she stormed off to the living room.

After a couple minutes, she grabs books and storms outside and asks me to open the garage so she can get the sidewalk chalk and play on the driveway. I told her that she was not allowed outside of the fence. She said "no" - I said you absolutely may not go out of the driveway because I was mad at her for her behavior and sassing at me. Back & forth ensued. I was trying to figure out a way to enforce my rule - eek - how do I punish a child without punishing? I told her to give me her shoes. She said she wouldn't go out of the yard. End of battle.

Still no HELP from the kids, though. I have tried begging, paying, playing, punishing, cajoling, etc. I have gone through the house on a rampage, boxing up everything on the floor - amidst tears ... We have several boxes from over the years, which they could "earn" back, if they chose to do so. but no. I have gotten rid of lots of stuff. They don't actually have an abundance of toys - everything is pared down pretty well.

This week, the tv and computer were banned, with the promise of them returning when they start doing schoolwork without arguing and when they are more helpful around the house. Some improvement in behavior and willingness to "learn" - but not enough to earn back the tv.

I'm reading Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. I also have Raising Your Spirited Child. I just don't have much time to read beause I'm ALWAYS doing ALL the work!!!!!! And when I get a break from them, the last thing I want to do is read a parenting book ...

--janis

[scottishmommy]

Ok, first of all if you're going to pay your dd to watch your baby then pay her right then. Give her a dollar or whatever everytime she watches the baby. That should help solve the tantrums over the lack of allowance. And really, I can understand why she would be upset about you forgetting to pay her.
Also, do your kids have specific chores or do you give them random work to do? I've found that kids respond well to cleaning routines, like making their bed every morning, and always taking dishes to the kitchen, etc. That way you are reminding them, not asking. I would try writing a poster with all the chores they have to do every day and then figure out a penalty if they refuse to do them.
As far as sassing goes, try ignoring it and see if that helps. Sassy kids are trying to get a rise out of you.
Good luck!

[philomom]

No allowance for chores. Everyone who lives in my house contributes to its care. Even my breadwinning dh can be seen doing the dishes if one of us forgot or got busy.


Think of a few simple things that each child can do and assign them that chore. You can do a chart and rewards if you wish.

[phathui5]

we have some type of fight, during which we finally start counting and say each number represents $1. She will say "you don't know where my money is" - I will remind her that she didn't get her allowance last week. If we don't actually count all the way to 5, we will pay her the remaining dollar or two right then.)

I would drop the counting and taking allowance away thing. Pay it out or don't, but don't make it something to use as a weapon.

[jrabbit]

scottishmommy - she's not mad about me forgetting - the reality is she doesn't remember either. BUT. I understand your point. We made a deal that I'd pay her every Saturday. Money seems to only motivate her sometimes, though.

philomom - we do have daily chore charts. (make bed, put away toys, pick up books, set table, put away dishes, etc) each child is certainly capable of doing chores, and their chores are definitely appropriate and reasonable. We've gone through a HUGE range or promises, rewards, sacrifices, and nothing seems to consistently work for anyone.

I just attempted to have a conversation with Annie - it's been 3 hours since we had our "fight". I asked her if there was any way that I could get her to understand that if we all help out, it's better for everyone. It apparently went out the other ear, though. Because when I reminded her that she needed to do some school work before playing with her friend, she "told" me that what she wanted to do was sidewalk chalk games like we've done every day this week. I explained to her AGAIN that housework has to be done today because we haven't done anything this whole week. I said, if she had really wanted me to do games with her, she should have been more helpful earlier or "now". She then reminded me of that "thing where you act the way you want others to act" (do unto others), and why was I being so mean - !!! I asked her if she forgot who made her lunch today, cleaned up the kitchen, is making her applesauce, is doing her laundry ....

I have obviously failed miserably - but I refuse to believe that my mother's method of shame and belittling is better.

[anj_rn]

We have a chore chart on the fridge. DS marks off the chores with magnets as he completes them. Next to that is the behavior chart. It starts every day with 10 stars, bad behavior means he has to take a star away. In order to get privileges, you have to have a certain number of chores done and a certain number of stars. (for example, in order to watch a show, he has to have 3 (out of 5) chores done and 7 behavior stars.

It works for us.

[Minxie]

Originally Posted by jrabbit

Annie was begging me to take them for a walk later and go to the library again, but when I was cleaning up the kitchen (after I kindly made eggs for her, which she is totally capable of doing herself, but I was being generous), I asked her "would you please bring me the dishes off the table?" "no" was her answer!!! I repeated my request 3 more times as "please bring me the dishes off the table now because I am cleaning up the kitchen now."

When my DS wants to do something but we have something to do first, I tell him:

"I will be glad to do this after we do that."

The bolded lines above would then become:

"I will be glad to take you for a walk after we clean the kitchen. Which would you like to do, clear the table or load the dishwasher?"

We also use choices...A LOT. HTH

[new2this]

Chores are something I just see as everyone has in the house and age appropriate no allowance for their set chores. Anything above and beyond gets an allowance/reward. Since you pay her for watching the baby I wouldn't use that as weapon to take away. Since from my understanding she is doing that.

At 10 I was very mouthy with my parents and from what I have seen with the other 10yrs and that age range I think its part of that age. I felt it was a really awkward age transitioning from "kid" to "preteen" was tough as a girl.


Something I read a while back and I thought you know that is something I think we will do. But this also comes from personal experience as a kid and my very stubborn attitude. But I got an allowance because money motivated me. I automatically lost my allowance for not doing what I was told. But what I read was like say for cleaning the room if they refuse to do it and you do it for them they they pay you equal value to the allowance but make it to where they actually pay you rather then withholding the allowance. It would have worked with me because I loved money more then not being able to go outside and if I would have had to pay my mom for cleaning my room I would loose out money.

It takes away the constant feeling of nagging and it said like give them an appropriate level to where they can complete the task. So just for example one week and if after one week they don't do it you step in. Plus it might even teach the value of money...lol

[Viola]

Originally Posted by jrabbit

I have obviously failed miserably - but I refuse to believe that my mother's method of shame and belittling is better.

Oh wow, I feel this way a good deal of the time. I have two daughters who are 10 and 6, and my older one is named Molly. She is kind of on the helpless side and I feel it's because I haven't required enough of her. My 6 year old is more of a do-it-herselfer but she becomes absolutely livid when someone requests anything of her. I decided this week that my children must have regular chores. I don't have anything set for them, I just ask them to do things here and there. I told them I'm going to start making them do regular chores every day and make a chart for it: simple chores like putting their own shoes away, picking up their own clothes off the floor and putting them in the hamper, cleaning up their toys at night (we ask them to do this every night, but there is much crying), walking the dog, setting and clearing the dinner table.

Yesterday and today my 6 year old was basically crying and refusing to help at all. All I wanted her to do was carry stuff to the table so there is a sense she is helping with dinner. Dinner is usually this thing I make that they proclaim awful and how they want something else, but I'm done with that. I shouldn't say they, actually my 10 year old is getting better. She even put a few dishes in the dishwasher after she cleared the table. My 6 year old finally put something on the table after figuring out how to make it into a game. It's not even that she's really helping me out much, I just figure there has to be some appearance of them actually doing something recognizable as a chore, because the habit is for me just to do it all and resent it.

Anyway, I'm now to the point of removing privileges. It just happened we had dessert both last night and this night, and I told her she wouldn't have dessert if she didn't help, period. You are already doing this, but it sounds almost like they are resigned to the loss of them. That does happen with my kids, the loss of a privilege is worth it for not having to do something they hate. So I don't know, all I can think of is offering more immediate incentives and consequences. If they haven't earned back a tv privilege after awhile, it seems like the whole thing will lose it's power or they will feel like it's impossible anyway.

It's hard for me to figure out sometimes when things seems so hard to do, and I try and talk to them about that. I mean my 6 year old will practically fight to the death not to do something so simple as picking her pajamas up from the middle of the floor and putting them in a clothes hamper. A lot of times what I've had to do is just leave the chore for awhile and revisit it later. My 10 year old is finally getting it that some of the tasks aren't that difficult and its just easier just to do it and not complain about it for an hour. My 6 year old still has to freak out and run away and cry about it for awhile first.

Oh well, no advice, but best wishes to you!

[MrsH]

Sounds like they're having a hard time with the concept of teamwork right now. I, like many of us, really struggle with feeling resentful sometimes. It seems like I work so hard and then I want the kids to do the same! So I do have to reign myself in and remind myself that they're kids and their job is primarily to play and learn. Our kids are almost 8, 4, and almost 1.

Having said that, we certainly do expect them to help out with the upkeep of our home. We have a few routines that have helped out with that and that maybe could work for you as well:

• in the morning, we have a list of things to complete before we head to school. It includes "pick up your room." Of course the room needs to have a place for everything first, so we've had to work on that a bit, but now it's become a habit.
• after school, it's the same thing. The list includes: "put shoes/coats away" and "put lunch things away" and "give notices"
• we're a little more lax about the before dinner time b/c they're often such a wreck between being tired and hungry. We ask for help when we think they can handle it and otherwise let it slide
• after dinner, the kids can ask to be excused and the reply is (if we're done talking and spending time together) "yes, after you clear your place."
• Saturday mornings we do chores as a family. We basically do the FLYlady "home blessing hour" and also add any chores to the list that I didn't get to during the week.

I also had a huge learning moment recently where I realized that in all the demanding of the kids, I never really allowed a space/time for them to air grievances. I strongly remember as a kid arguing with my parents about doing the dishes and whose turn it was and my anger at the countless ways that my sister managed to get out of it all. My dad's response was always "it would've already been done if you didn't spend time arguing about it. Go do it." And I really don't want to do that to my kids. So we're instating a family meeting, which we're in the process of doing now. I'm hoping that we get to the point where we can pose questions like: "it's always a fight to get you to wash hands before dinner. What can we do to change that?" and "I've noticed that Saturday chores haven't happened in a while, how will we get back on track?"

Hope there's something useful there for you!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

This is something I struggle with all the time as well. I still havnt figured out how to get dd and now ds to help me out. I am the only one that does anything in the house as I just cannot keep up.

[mamaduck]

I would organize your expectations into 2 catagories:

1) One or two set chores that are reasonable and age appropriate that happen every day at the same time as part of your routine. These should not take more than 15-20 minutes and can go onto a chart that you post, and if you want to associate a consequence or a reward you can -- but it should be a consistent consequence or reward. It does not have to be a tangible -- it can be, but it could also be, "After chores we always play a game." Or make a craft. Or talk a walk.

2) Taking responsibility for self would be the second catagory, and consists of good habits that everybody needs to develop to live peacebly with others. Clear your own place after a meal, hang up your own jacket when you come inside. Put your own dirty clothes in the hamper. I would specify these items clearly (make a list if you want to) and then really be vigilant for awhile about sending them back *immediately* when the fail to do these things. "You dropped your coat on the floor. Go back and hang it up." Until these things are habits, you will be doing more work than usual. My kids get allowance (not related to anything) but if I find that after 2 reminders, they still refuse to hang up a coat or put nasty clothes in the hamper, I will charge a quarter to do it myself and I keep track. If they choose to spend their allowance on a housemaid, I can work with that.

*Note -- Adults in the house have to model personal responsibility. Its not going to work if you don't clear your plate at the table or hang up your jacket, kwim?

Finally -- if you make a request that does not fall into these two catagories -- like, "clear up your sister's place" or "run and fetch me something," I would brace yourself to accept no for an answer and move on. My focus would really be intent on the items in the two catagories I described, and other stuff would not be a battleground. You only have so much energy, so keep it focused and consistent.

If you do decide to lay down some new rules, new routines, and some new expectations -- I would start with a family meeting. Don't just spring it on them one day -- sit down together, outline your concerns, listen to their concerns, and come up with a plan together. Within the context of the meeting, give the kids choices about chores, and about establishing consequences. If they want to, have one of them "scribe" and make the charts and lists up. Kids are more likely to "buy in" when they are involved in the process. But remember that you chair the meeting, and make sure your goals are met.

[mamaduck]

I forgot to say that I'd also stop taking money from your daughter as a cosequence for power struggles. If the money is tied to the task of babysitting, and she babysits, then give her the money. However, I would charge her if I had to do her chores for her. But it would be as detached and unemotional as I could make it. "I cleaned up your dirty clothes off the floor this morning and I charge 50 cents for that."

I think you might benefit from starting another thread about you 10 year old's general behavior (if you haven't already) and maybe we can work as a group to get to the bottom of that separately from the housework issues.