3 yo - Don't know what's normal anymore.

[InMediasRes]

My DS has SPD and we think he has some motor planning issues. He also has quite a bit of anxiety, and regresses quite a bit in social situations.

I have no idea what normal 3yo behavior is supposed to look like, so someone tell me if this is right.

He has been working on riding his tricycle for 6 months now and has made absolutely no progress. We have had a pretty mild winter so we've been outside a lot and he's worked hours and hours on it. He really really wants to ride it. I've tried everything I can think of to explain to him what he's supposed to do with the pedals, the steering, etc. I've pushed him a bit, knelt down and pushed his feet for him, and he just gives me this blank stare when I tell him to push the pedals with his feet. Then he just rocks himself back and forth and grunts trying to make it go.

I know that this is possibly normal that some kids just don't catch on right away, but I am really frustrated with it. Most of the time I have DD in the mei tai, so it's not exactly easy for me to help him, but he gets so angry if I don't give him adequate time to try. Eventually he'll just end up yelling "GO GO GO!" and we have to put the bike away before he melts down.

Is he just too young for it? I've seen lots of other 3yo riding trikes. Maybe I need a different type of bike? We've tried several kinds of trikes, but maybe the pedals on them are at too weird an angle. Anyone do a bike with training wheels or a balance bike for a kid that age?

The other thing that is really driving me crazy but that I figure must be age appropriate is obsession with rules. He repeats things he's heard me say over and over and over again until I'm going mad thinking I must have so many rules that I've stifled him! When we're reading a magazine, it's "We don't go by xyz", "xyz is DANGEROUS!" or repetitions of our actual rules like not running into the street or climbing on the table (not that he actually follows those rules, except the street one because he is absolutely terrified of cars). Most of the rules are ones that he's making up and half the time I have to correct him by saying something like "It's alright to go by grass." or "We can go by kitties. Kitties are nice!" or "Don't worry, squares are not dangerous."

Is this just a "making sense of the way the world works" thing, or is this obsessive. I mean, we're talking about he's making up rules for going by GRASS and ROCKS and SHAPES and CRAYONS. It's ridiculous! And the negativity drives me nuts! I am trying to empower him, but I feel like he's putting HIMSELF in a box!

A few other things that I've worried about:

-He does not know his letters or numbers, though not for a lack of trying. I'm not pushy about it, but he just can't distinguish between the different shapes.
-He can't count. He can sound off "12345" but he doesn't get what it means. We've tried counting things out, like grapes, etc., but he just points into the air and says "12345" over and over.
-He can't sing any songs. Period. He does sometimes make things up, but it's mostly moaning nonsense or singing "Glory to God" (the only phrase from a song that he's picked up). He doesn't actually sound like he's singing, more like moaning.
-He can't do any finger plays. Not even Twinkle Twinkle.
-He can't wait for anything for even one second. He melts down completely if he has to wait more than 30 seconds.
-He still doesn't seem to understand that hitting/kicking/biting/tackling/etc. HURTS PEOPLE. I am SO TIRED of being beaten up all day!

I'm sure there's more that I wonder about but those are the big ones. I suppose the fact that most of my mommy friends are pretty educated and push their kids to learn very quickly makes my observations of other 3yo a little off from the norm, but I want some more perspective here.

Thanks, mamas!

[pbjmama]

He has been working on riding his tricycle for 6 months now and has made absolutely no progress. Since he wants to ride it but can't master the ability I say this is abnormal.

The other thing that is really driving me crazy but that I figure must be age appropriate is obsession with rules. This one is in the 'depends' section for me. Different kids get obsessed with different thing. I would be more concerned with the repetition, depending on how frequent it is and how long it has been going on. "

A few other things that I've worried about:

-He does not know his letters or numbers, He can't count.
Not a huge red flag
-He can't wait for anything for even one second. He melts down completely if he has to wait more than 30 seconds. Could be normal.
-He still doesn't seem to understand that hitting/kicking/biting/tackling/etc. HURTS PEOPLE. I am SO TIRED of being beaten up all day! I think this is probably related to SPD. My ds is a sensory seeker and I totally understand.

Is he currently in therapy? I would ask the therapist his/her opinion and push for more OT and OT exercises at home. Ask for an update from your last evaluation - what is he doing well in, what does he need more work, anything new that might help him? Brushing really helped us with the sensory seeking.

[InMediasRes]

Thanks, pbjmama. The rule obsession is a recent thing, and it's not repetitive in that he would just say one line over and over again. It's more like we're having a conversation, or reading a book or something and he is relating to the pictures through rules, if that makes any sense.

For instance, this afternoon we were walking outside, and he was going on and on about how we don't go in the street, we hold hands in the street, we watch for cars, we etc. etc. etc. It's almost like he's just internalizing everything. It makes me feel like I have way too many rules, but I'm really pretty minimalistic about it as it is.

Hope I can get some more insight here.

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by InMediasRes

My DS has SPD and we think he has some motor planning issues. He also has quite a bit of anxiety, and regresses quite a bit in social situations.

I have no idea what normal 3yo behavior is supposed to look like, so someone tell me if this is right.

He has been working on riding his tricycle for 6 months now and has made absolutely no progress. We have had a pretty mild winter so we've been outside a lot and he's worked hours and hours on it. He really really wants to ride it. I've tried everything I can think of to explain to him what he's supposed to do with the pedals, the steering, etc. I've pushed him a bit, knelt down and pushed his feet for him, and he just gives me this blank stare when I tell him to push the pedals with his feet. Then he just rocks himself back and forth and grunts trying to make it go. My ds who was on track in motor skills did not pedal until about 3.75. BUT, he didn't try and try...he would try (I'd help), get frustrated and quit. That lasted about 6 months until one day it just clicked. Shortly after he was on a two wheeler with training wheels. It was amazing to see the quick progression, but we waited a long time for it!

I know that this is possibly normal that some kids just don't catch on right away, but I am really frustrated with it. Most of the time I have DD in the mei tai, so it's not exactly easy for me to help him, but he gets so angry if I don't give him adequate time to try. Eventually he'll just end up yelling "GO GO GO!" and we have to put the bike away before he melts down.

Is he just too young for it? I've seen lots of other 3yo riding trikes. Maybe I need a different type of bike? We've tried several kinds of trikes, but maybe the pedals on them are at too weird an angle. Anyone do a bike with training wheels or a balance bike for a kid that age? We used a "big wheel" style 3-wheeler, different angle, but not sure how important it is.

The other thing that is really driving me crazy but that I figure must be age appropriate is obsession with rules. He repeats things he's heard me say over and over and over again until I'm going mad thinking I must have so many rules that I've stifled him! When we're reading a magazine, it's "We don't go by xyz", "xyz is DANGEROUS!" or repetitions of our actual rules like not running into the street or climbing on the table (not that he actually follows those rules, except the street one because he is absolutely terrified of cars). Most of the rules are ones that he's making up and half the time I have to correct him by saying something like "It's alright to go by grass." or "We can go by kitties. Kitties are nice!" or "Don't worry, squares are not dangerous."

Is this just a "making sense of the way the world works" thing, or is this obsessive. I mean, we're talking about he's making up rules for going by GRASS and ROCKS and SHAPES and CRAYONS. It's ridiculous! And the negativity drives me nuts! I am trying to empower him, but I feel like he's putting HIMSELF in a box!
A few other things that I've worried about:

-He does not know his letters or numbers, though not for a lack of trying. I'm not pushy about it, but he just can't distinguish between the different shapes. no big deal
-He can't count. He can sound off "12345" but he doesn't get what it means. We've tried counting things out, like grapes, etc., but he just points into the air and says "12345" over and over. I wouldn't worry about it
-He can't sing any songs. Period. He does sometimes make things up, but it's mostly moaning nonsense or singing "Glory to God" (the only phrase from a song that he's picked up). He doesn't actually sound like he's singing, more like moaning.
-He can't do any finger plays. Not even Twinkle Twinkle.
-He can't wait for anything for even one second. He melts down completely if he has to wait more than 30 seconds.my 3yo is the same!
-He still doesn't seem to understand that hitting/kicking/biting/tackling/etc. HURTS PEOPLE. I am SO TIRED of being beaten up all day!

I'm sure there's more that I wonder about but those are the big ones. I suppose the fact that most of my mommy friends are pretty educated and push their kids to learn very quickly makes my observations of other 3yo a little off from the norm, but I want some more perspective here.

Thanks, mamas!

3yo is a rough age! Hang in there.

[kdtmom2be]

Originally Posted by InMediasRes

Thanks, pbjmama. The rule obsession is a recent thing, and it's not repetitive in that he would just say one line over and over again. It's more like we're having a conversation, or reading a book or something and he is relating to the pictures through rules, if that makes any sense.

That makes total sense, to me at least, who has a DD that is 6 weeks or so younger than your DS. She is also obsessed with rules and I've mostly chalked it up to knowing how the world works. She is MOST interested in who is allowed to do what and I think that comes from the phrasing of things that DH and I do. "Don't play with the sharp scissors, those are only for mommies and daddies." She will ask if she is allowed to do something and then clarify "for mommy? for daddy? for Jacob? (DS - baby) for Grammie? for X friend?" and she does this a LOT some days. It is in the context of conversation, but she wants to know what it allowed and what is not. She often is relating one rule to another rule. She knows that the sharp knives are "for grownups" and the butter knives are "for kids too" and when I started letting her use scissors she automatically related that experience and knew that the "pink handle scissors" are "for kids" and the black ones are "for grownups" (sharp kitchen scissors). I would only be concerned about the rules thing if he is not able to relate similar rules to each other or can't figure out that a rule has a time and/or place... like we must hold hands in parking lots, but on the sidewalk you don't have to (as long as you stay close) and in the park you can run as far/fast as you want.

HTH!

[peaceful_mama]

I worked in an early intervention preschool before I decided to SAH, and DS1 currently attends one....so I have some background.

Since he's been trying *so hard* with the trike and just isn't getting it, I would say that isn't typical. (it might be 'typical' for him to not know how to ride and take awhile to get it if he hadn't had one all this time, but most kids, from what I've seen, given the chance, don't take 6 mos. to learn--if we're talking starting at 2 1/2)

Not knowing how to count out items is pretty typical. Most kids learn to 'recite numbers' long before they connect it to counting out items. (And most kids can do something like counting how many ducks are in the picture before they can "Give me 5"--something ds's preschool teacher told me this year and was how ds progressed) Also not knowing what letters are, I'd consider that pretty typical of 3.

The constant talking about rules sounds to me like he is trying to make sense of what rules are...typical. Both the talking about the "real" rules and making pretend rules. Pretty typical.

The not singing and not being able to do fingerplays does not sound typical. Though it *might* be that he's just not real interested, I would think he'd do it *once in awhile* or have one or two that would appeal. DS1 is not *huge* into that kind of stuff, but he still would sometimes E-I-E-I-O or something, and he liked actions. (He was language-delayed so I would think that's related.) How's the rest of your ds's language?

[Tjej]

It sounds like you may be getting frustrated while your DS is trying to ride the trike. I say this because I have had the same feelings with my DD "wanting to learn to ride". I put that in quotes because while she said she wanted to learn, she wouldn't really try, and really wanted to be pushed around and do it together the whole time, and it was uncomfortable and akward for me and I would get frustrated and ANYWAY... I think it can be normal to not be able to pedal at 3. My DD just seemed like she would never get it. It did click for her at one point. She's 4 now. I just let her try on the trike/bike, and left it as her thing - not me helping - and that was better for both of us. She would scoot herself around not using the pedals. Fine with me. And if your son can't do that, maybe the bike/trike is too big.

As far as a balance bike - sure, my 2yo has one, and my 4yo would probably like one . If you want to go that route it is a lot less frustrating and easier for them to operate on their own right away.

I think that the things you are describing are not, of themselves, unusual for a 3yo. I guess if he really "can't" do the itsy bitsy spider, that would be unusual. But if he doesn't want to, or would need you to do it with him, possibly even doing his hands for him for a few times first, I would think that was still "normal".

Kids are all so different. If you think there is something that needs evaluation on your DS, you should get it evaluated and either allay your fears or get him help he needs. BUT, if you think he's fine then the things you write don't really send up any red flags for me. You could have his vision checked, if he really is trying to recognize letters and it isn't working.

HTH

Tjej

[InMediasRes]

Wow, I had to dig this thread out because I forgot about it.

Put in the context of figuring out how the world works, I guess the rules thing seems normal. It just drives me nuts!

With his trike, I've taken him out the last few days and he can push himself around with his feet just fine, but he is constantly scooting himself off the seat and getting "stuck" (a problem for which there is no solution except mommy fixing it). He did get the pedalling a teeny bit yesterday, which I guess is progress, but he still just gets frustrated so fast.

And he really can't do finger plays. He also has a hard time repeating actions, like I say "Put your hands up in the air" and he puts them out in front of himself. This is not an all the time thing, he just seems to have a hard time reproducing what he sees. He was also late to crawl and on the later side to walk and is still constantly falling down or off of chairs and such. He also has pretty bad gravitational insecurity.

I don't remember where his language was asked about, but he was evaluated by EI about 5mo ago, and he scored above the 99%ile for both receptive and expresssive language. When I went and looke at typical language for his age, he is in the 4yo category . He will make rhymes on his own and tell stories, etc., and pretend play like crazy, but he can't really recite things he remembers very well, although I have heard him repeat a lot of things we say.

I dunno. We haven't seen an OT yet, that's next.