mothering disintegrated - Page 2

[CatsCradle]

OP, we don't homeschool or live in the countryside, but the issue of my child growing up in a "sheltered" environment has long been a concern of mine. While we live in a culturally/racially diverse city, sometimes I think that we have really cornered ourselves into lifestyle where everything is centered on our efforts to surround ourselves with people who think like us, have similar economic situations and share similar value systems. While this isn't wrong, and won't change anytime soon, I do get concerned that DD's exposure to people of differing beliefs and social/economic circumstances is very limited.

I didn't grow up poor, but my parents did provide us with some simple, yet incredibly relevant opportunities in order to better understand the circumstances of others. When my sister and I were very young, my mom arranged to have us make regular visits to a nursing home in our town. We saw one elderly lady on a regular basis and my mom let us pick out some bedroom slippers for her birthday. The day we gave her the bedroom slippers (that we picked out) was one of the highlights of my youth. What sticks with me most, however, was the time that we couldn't visit her for some reason, and we learned from the home that the lady had gotten very upset and cried. At the time, I had no clue how much our friendship and visits meant to her. Apparently we were the only people that ever visited her. She'll be in my memory forever. This had a much greater impact on me than my subsequent trips as an adult to various third world countries. We have "adopt the elderly" programs in my present city and I think I want to get DD involved with that. DD is exposed to all kinds of people every day, but essentially we go about our day without ever making any connections.

People will think I'm silly for saying this, but I think that young children also learn compassion through caring for and/or feeling empathy for animals. DD and I saw an injured, one-legged pigeon at our bus stop several months ago and she is still concerned about its ability to survive. It really encourages me that she is showing so much compassion for what we like to call "rats with wings."

So, I personally don't think that banging someone over the head with "look, here's a poor person and/or an old person, let's show some compassion" really works as effectively as taking baby steps in instilling compassion and empathy. For children, I think it can start with something very small.

[mamaofthree]

i don't think that is silly at all. i think on some level children can connect more with animals then with people sometimes. showing compassion for something smaller/weaker then yourself, that isn't silly at all.

i have spent a lot of my adult life feeling guilty for being born white, and being born in america. i have felt like i didn't deserve this privilege at all. feeling this way had blinded me to remember the gratitude i should be feeling. it also left me feeling powerless to do anything, because the problems of the world seem so massive. we found something that we could do, and honestly that has helped so so much. plus i have made a point in feeling grateful for every single thing we have. all of it, even the "crap" (like bills, lol). i feel blessed that i can homeschool, that i can give my children a happy calm, semi-stress free life. and we go out into the world and help where we can.

[journeymom]

To the OP, what did the title of this thread, Mothering Disintegrated, mean in context of what you said?

Edited to add,

I think a lot of people think they need to do something dramatic to make a difference (go to India) and no offense, but it's almost a cop out, because most people will never go.

Madskye, there's a variation of this. This yearning for an idealized 'natural life' that looks like it's out of Little House on the Prairie, feeling disappointed because we can't have that in the suburbs. I'm guilty of this. Another mama here at MDC pointed out that there's nothing stopping us from having the most 'natural' life possible in our existing modern track homes.

[laohaire]

I'm not at all concerned about this.

Yes, it's possible to raise children to be unaware of the world, self-centered and uncaring about others.

That has nothing to do with providing them a safe, happy environment free from violence and oppression.

It has nothing to do with growing up in the beautiful countryside and having paint and books and so on.

You can send your kids to an inner city public high school and expose them to poverty, violence, drugs, racism; it doesn't mean they will be driven to help others as adults.

Nor, of course, will sending them to elite private schools.

Providng a stable home life and also teaching your children gratitude, responsibility, sensitivity and compassion is the fundamental answer. When you raise secure, happy people who have their needs met, they are able to turn their energies and attentions outward and be supportive of others as well (however that means - being a good friend, being of service to those in need, being good parents and spouses, making choices being mindful of their impact to others, etc.).

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

i don't think that is silly at all. i think on some level children can connect more with animals then with people sometimes. showing compassion for something smaller/weaker then yourself, that isn't silly at all.

I agree. I also think that small children can connect well with animals because animals have needs that are pretty easy to understand. They need food and water. They'd like cuddles and shelter in bad weather. Adult issues aren't as easy to see and understand.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by LeslieB

Very interesting thought! Have you ever thought about doing Couchsurfing?

Thanks for passing on this link! I didn't know about this, but we've been looking for something similar. I'd really like to provide respite on occasion to overwhelmed moms, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it yet.

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

also, i too am at a loss as to the comment about the one kid going to school to make friends (school friends only) with the "poor" kid. that seems a bit elitist to me... like here is your poor friend, isn't that cool.

h

It's a common debate among affluent liberals (though I don't know the family mentioned in this thread, just sharing my experience). The concern is that if we can afford to isolate our children from our larger community and do that, then are we sheltering them from real-world experiences that would help shape who they are? It's not about the "poor" friend. It's about meeting people you wouldn't have otherwise who come from different walks of life.

[betsyj]

The concern is that if we can afford to isolate our children from our larger community and do that, then are we sheltering them from real-world experiences that would help shape who they are?

And maybe this is just my perception but that makles it seem like, 'thank goodness for poor kids or else how would my kid know how fortunate he is?" I do understand it is a somewhat common theme among certain families, but I don't think it reflects particularly well on them.

We don't have a lot of money and my son is SN. We don't exist to show people richer then us just how good they have it you know?

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by betsyj

And maybe this is just my perception but that makles it seem like, 'thank goodness for poor kids or else how would my kid know how fortunate he is?" I do understand it is a somewhat common theme among certain families, but I don't think it reflects particularly well on them.

We don't have a lot of money and my son is SN. We don't exist to show people richer then us just how good they have it you know?

Well, I was a poor kid growing up, so it's not like I don't have any understanding of how it feels from the other side. I'm just sharing the concern that many families like ours have. The better situation is for my children to make friends organically through neighborhood play, activities, etc., but in many places school becomes the default place where children meet others. It's not at all about an effort to feel superior or to demonstrate to my children "how good they have it." It's more about wanting them to have a fuller experience of life than a school where everyone's parents can afford the tuition and the monthly hours required for volunteering.

In the end, I don't think that education is the single influence on the moral code my children develop, but I can't ignore that it's part of the puzzle. When you look at Waldorf schools in particular, they are really a lifestyle, and so parents who choose to send their children there must have the time/money/energy to participate in the many requirements of the school. That, in the end, will limit the pool of children who can attend, and it's something we've considered when deciding how our children will be educated.

[starlein26]

Originally Posted by junipermoon

Sometimes I feel like my homeschooled, AP'ed children are maturing within some kind of warped, overly safe, temperature controlled learning laboratory that they never leave. Play kitchen. Indoor swing/slide for the toddler. I counted more than 90 high gloss baby board books this morning while organizing. Outside our house are rolling hills and cornfields. Two visible neighbors, but at a distance. We go out twice a day to walk around and play. I wonder how ok it is for kids to grow up so sheltered?

Most animals want to provide the safest place to raise their young, why do you feel guilty about this?

Originally Posted by junipermoon

Does anyone else feel caught in a circle of wanting to keep your children safe on the one hand but wondering, on the other hand, how spiritually or emotionally "safe" or sustainable the life of western privilege really is, in the end, in the context of a world that is hurting directly because of the ways that we generally lead our western lives?

My heart for my children and my heart for my world seem to be in conflict. It's excruciating. How do all of you mamas here handle these tensions?

Clearly, as you've stated, you're actually not in conflict. Your choices all point to protecting your children. And I don't say this in a snarky way at.all.

[Lilyoftheincas13]

Originally Posted by junipermoon

Sometimes I feel like my homeschooled, AP'ed children are maturing within some kind of warped, overly safe, temperature controlled learning laboratory that they never leave. Play kitchen. Indoor swing/slide for the toddler. I counted more than 90 high gloss baby board books this morning while organizing. Outside our house are rolling hills and cornfields. Two visible neighbors, but at a distance. We go out twice a day to walk around and play. I wonder how ok it is for kids to grow up so sheltered?

We moved here the better part of a year ago, and for the first time, my kids aren't regularly in contact with children from violent or dysfunctional families that they have befriended on the street.

They do still have friends but now that they are all homeschooling and we are in the country the playdates they have are totally within our control so they are in sheltered environments when they leave our house, too.

I thought I wanted this, but now I am like, hmmmmm. My heart hurts to see how much privilege we have--not economically so much as we are not upper income--but my h is a college professor and we do have things and good shelter and beautiful surroundings and ample resources (degrees etc) for generating more income if we decided that was what we wanted. But we deliver this abundance to only our 3 children.

It makes me so want to adopt again, put out a craigslist ad offering shelter to a struggling young family, etc. In my saner moments. When I am feeling more restless I investigate the cost of plane tickets out of the global north and think about when and how I want to lead my family into a life of service, simplicity, and balance.

And then you know what happens? I start thinking about my youngest, who is not vaxed, and worry about taking him out of the country. My oldest after all almost died when we were in India, years ago, and that was with travel vaxes and all routine shots UTD. This stops me in my tracks and I decide to wait--I decide not to consider moving out of this culture that I feel generally alienated from and even decide not to take a vacation from it.

Does anyone else feel caught in a circle of wanting to keep your children safe on the one hand but wondering, on the other hand, how spiritually or emotionally "safe" or sustainable the life of western privilege really is, in the end, in the context of a world that is hurting directly because of the ways that we generally lead our western lives?

My heart for my children and my heart for my world seem to be in conflict. It's excruciating. How do all of you mamas here handle these tensions?

I'm not a mama for another few days yet, but I've struggled with this idea in my own life, albeit from a different perspective than yours. I don't think it's about "privilege". I think it's about living a balanced life, no matter who we are, what we have, or what we lack.

I grew up on the dirt-poor end of middle class, and I worked my way up to the wealthier end of middle class, and now I'm back on the poor end, and I've been exposed to people from all walks of life. Honestly, it's very easy for any of us to let our lives get out of balance whether we come from a place of plenty or a place of nothing. Those who go around thinking they are "privileged" just for being born a certain color, or with a certain amount of money and/or resources run the risk of becoming arrogant, condescending jerks who devalue the privilege that exists outside of their own social networks; those who go around thinking they aren't "privileged" run the risk of living a life of a constantly struggling victim with their hand out, because they've become so blind to what they already have in life, what they can work to get, and how they can help others along the way that they have no clue how to go about even identifying what it is they truly need or want. No matter what end of the spectrum we fall on (and I've visited both!), it's very easy for us to slap a label on ourselves as either over or under privileged, then begin to wear the blinders of that particular label and miss out on the realities of life, which are, at once, gracefully beautiful and horrifyingly frightful.

The other mamas are right: it doesn't matter that you have a few extra clothes or toys or books; what it all comes down to is giving your children a safe, loving, happy environment to live in and helping them understand what life is really all about. They need access to the best education you can provide them so that they become literate, functioning adults who think for themselves and contribute something to society. They need compassion and empathy so they can learn to give back to others--not because it makes them feel good or because it's the trendy/PC thing to do in their particular segment of society, but because it is, simply, how life perpetuates itself.

So ya...I get your tension and conflicted feelings. But when I think of what I want to teach the little peanut in my belly, I want him or her to realize that no matter what our circumstances, we are all privileged when we come into being. I want them to be able to recognize that money, cars, where you live or where you're educated have nothing to do with privilege, rather, their ability to recognize what it is they have, and their ability to figure out how to effectively use what they have will allow them to lead a healthy, happy, balanced life, and have the tools to help others realize the same. I just hope it isn't all an obnoxiously lofty goal at which I'll fail miserably!

One thing you said really captured my attention...for the first time, my kids aren't regularly in contact with children from violent or dysfunctional families that they have befriended on the street. What does this really mean? Do you think this is a bad thing for your kids?

[alexsam]

I read most of the replies, but not *all*, so excuse me if I missed something... Here goes.

First, I think the focus should be on protecting children to allow them to grow whole. Exposure that puts them at risk (both physically and emotionally) does not further them in becoming the people they are meant to be. "Wholeness" does not require being rich or poor, city or rural. It is about evolving with your child to protect ther body and spirit in a long and gradual process of teaching them about the world and their potential in it and giving them the tools to live to their fullest and help others do the same. My focus as a parent is not to flood my child with material things or create articifical environments to force compassion, but to give them a place to grow safe and secure and allow my son to build his own sense of self and awareness. As time goes by, we approach compassion from his eyes. In the past few months, we created an offshoot of The Bright Red Bookshelf in our city (http://www.familyreading.org/p-bookshelf.htm) where locally donated childrens books are placed on shelves where vulnerable kids end up- the police station, the hospital ER, the shelter, etc. and they take it for free. And it is great because there is no "us/them" dynamic. Any child could end up in the ER and need a book. But, for many children this is their first and only book. And it is something concrete we can do and my son understands. Does it change the world? Yes. One little book at a time, making one small act to improve the life of another.

I've also started inviting people over for Friday night dinner. A visiting professor, a friend from school, etc. It has brought enormous and genuine diversity into our home. Its not about going out to "them". It is about showing my son how to invite others in- to our table, hearts, minds and lives, building appreciation with a smile and connection that means something to him.

We also have "taken back" our lives to live thoughtfully. We live in a small (but happy!) house. Last year, we decided to make all of our birthday parties "zero waste" and it was like, a total eye opening experience for us and our friends. We chucked the tv. We planted a garden. We began to talk about excess and media. And, in all this reduction, the quality of our lives INCREASED. Because... its not about "stuff" that makes a child whole.

Someday, the other parts will come. As the children get older and understand more (and are able to do more in response to their being strong, safe, and ready), we will appriach the harder issues and the more involved work.

Eleanor Roosevelt said "Where ... do universal human rights begin? In small places, close to home -- so close and so small that they cannot be seen on any maps of the world. Such are the places where every man, woman, and child seeks equal justice, equal opportunity, equal dignity without discrimination. Unless these rights have meaning there, they have little meaning anywhere."

It is a call to make human rights, equity, justice and appreciation of diversity not as an abstract to be done to others, but a way of living life, embedded in the "small acts" which grow into bigger ones, making these things not what you will do, but who you will be.

[mamaofthree]

alexsam, Lilyoftheincas13... beautiful!

h

[VisionaryMom]

AlexSam, thanks for your post. You brought up many great ideas and have given me lots to think about.

[alexsam]

I also wanted to mention modeling is important for very young children in building genuine compassion and ways that people can make change, even if they are not ready to do it themselves. I also try to sqeeze in some time to volunteer for an AIDS organization. The complex social and medical issues with AIDS is too much for my son as a 5 yr old. And, our clientelle and our literature are not appropriate for him. But he knows I am doing a "grown-up work" trying to make people who are sick feel better. He sees that it is important to me, he sees that I work hard at it. We talk about how much it means when we are sick to have people who help. He is not ready to tackle AIDS. It is not his place. But he sees that I do. He sees the processes of time, effort, communication, etc. as the work inevitably spills over in ways he can see. And, I'm confiendent that some day, he will remember my doing this and it will register that he can do the same when he wants to make change. When he wants to emulate me and "Help sick people too", we make our new mommy friends dinner, we bring homemade bread and jam to some of our older friends and he feels the power of his potential without being damaged by ideas and people that he is not yet strong enough physically or emotionally to deal with. I know that someday, his time of dealing with greater complexity and difficulty will come. But like I said, this is a long, gradual process. So, I also put out there that part of teaching your children about their potential is by using your own (even if it means a short time away from them). Live like they are watching... because they are .

And, I think this extends to Eleanor Roosevelt's "small places" as well. When we see a lost child in a super market, I help to find their grown-ups. If I see trash, I pick it up. If a person falls on the side walk, we stop. If someone was ahead of us in line and got passed over, we call it out and put it right. Not a big show of things, but these small places are important in showing that, again, it is not always about "going out and doing something" it is about living by a set of personal values and demonstrating how they are not in just large acts, but small ones as well that really touch one life to another and they are not reserved for "acts of charity"- they are who we are.