treatment for c. difficile, and preventing same

[mommytolittlelilly]

My mom has been admitted to the hospital for c. diff. She is on a cocktail of very powerful antibiotics to treat it, and she has shown improvement as far as her white blood cell count goes, but she continues to have diarrhea. We are worried about colitis, and that's what they are watching for.

I bought some Culturelle, and I'm going to order Florastor online. I wanted to give her kefir from the store, but they are telling us she should not have any dairy right now. Is there anything else I can give her that will get s. boulardii into her system? Any other suggestions?

My dad is also in a lot of danger as he is on antibiotics for treating an infection at his peg tube site, and he is in a nursing home where things are pretty damned unsanitary. I want to start him on some probiotics, but his swallow is an issue. He can have clear to thin liquids, but I'm worried about his ability to handle the grainy quality of probiotics. Maybe I could give him kefir. Any recs for store-bought kefir for my dad? He had a stroke five weeks ago.

[sbgrace]

I don't know what to suggest for your dad in terms of the swallow. When a person is on antibiotics florastor/s. boulardi is the way to go as antibiotics are going to kill everything else. VSL3 also has action against c. diff (though would be antibiotic susceptible like culturelle) and you might look into whether that mixes better than other probiotics.

I did florastor with my mom in the hospital/with her surgery and then added culturelle w/the florastor after she was off antibiotics.


Is your mom doing oral vancomycin? Together w/large amounts of florastor I think that's your best option and has a good chance of getting it. If that doesn't get it my son just finished alinia for a parasite and it has good c. diff activity too I believe. She will need to keep doing c. diff resistant probiotics for a very long time if not indefinitely.

[mama1803]

Kombucha has s. boulardii.

HTH

[mommytolittlelilly]

My mom is taking the oral vancomycin, and she is also receiving flagyl(?) through an IV. I can't remember if flagyl is the name of the other one or not, but it's whatever the other standard antibiotic is for treating c. diff.

I will be able to pick up some Florastor from CVS on Monday - apparently they will order stuff for you. I think I am going to get the VSL3 for her once the antibiotics are done.

Do you know if it's alright to take Culturelle and/or Florastor throughout the day rather than just once a day, so maybe 1/2 way in between times of the antibiotics? Or should we stick w/ once a day? I want to do whatever it takes to make the most out of this stuff, w/out harming her.

I think I will give Kombucha a try for my dad.

Thanks.

[not now]

Why can't the probiotics go in the PEG tube? I've sent probiotics down PEG tubes plenty of times when I worked in nursing homes.

[sbgrace]

Well, I always gave antibitiotic susceptible probiotics (culturelle) three hours after the antibiotic. But someone here had read that half way between doses was what is typically done in studies. I began to question why I selected three hours! And then I realized that companies like Klaire labs who know probiotics told me to space their probiotics 2-3 hours for antibiotics. And the thought of waiting a full six hours or whatever bugs me because I think it does give a chance for nasties to take hold. At any rate, I never had an issue w/overgrowths spacing three hours. I always redosed three hours after every single antibiotics dose so that would be at least two and often three times per day. But if we ever have to do them again it seems logical and gives extra protection to do it three hours after and then again at the half way point between with things like culturelle. With florastor I always did twice a day since it survives antibiotics. I don't honestly know how flagyl works with it. I questioned it myself so dosed it three hours after each flagyl dose.

And all that to say....I found dosing of probiotics while on IV antibiotics was nearly impossible as the spacing isn't something you can determine. They are getting them all the time it would seem (or that was true of my son). So I strongly prefer florastor/s. boulardi in those situations. So I'd do Kombucha for mom now too if you can get that quickly. Otherwise do the culturelle and space it apart from the antibiotics if at all possible. Give it anyway even if not possible and I'd do it pretty frequently--maybe four times per day honestly as it's getting constantly killed off. I'd try to do a stopgap type thing until I could get the s. boulardi in place. The florastor twice a day is what I did with my mom and my son. Three times won't hurt her. You can't overdose on probiotics.

Wishing them healing and you peace. This must be extremely hard and emotionally draining for you.

[mommytolittlelilly]

Thanks Rachelle. I am going to get the kombucha today, since I can't get the Florastor until tomorrow.


As for getting probiotics through the PEG tube for my dad, I have to go thru the dr. He is very, very difficult to get ahold of, and I am so incredibly frustrated with the terrible care my dad is receiving. I mean, it is flat out appalling, and this is one of the better places we visited. I can't even get ahold of the nurse - I've been on hold for about 20 minutes. I had one nurse tell me that she is responsible for about 26 patients on her rotation, and they work 12-hour shifts. Everyone is totally burned out over there, and you can tell that they are not exactly stellar nurses to begin with.

So much for the "greatest health care in the world." I wish we lived in England or somewhere else that's civilized.

[not now]

You're gonna have to talk to the MD directly. Talking to a nurse is not going to get you anywhere. S/he's not gonna put anything down that PEG that isn't ordered. Period. And if s/he's that busy they're not going to remember to ask the MD themselves. I took care of 50 residents everyday and it's overwhelming at times.

The only problem I can think of is storage since it will be considered a food product. It could sit in the snack fridge that typically sits at the nurses station but everything has to be labeled and thrown out after a certain amount of time. It could be stored in the kitchen but state regulations tend to be pretty strict about how food is stored there and inspectors could give a "What the hell is this?" reaction when they see it.

[mommytolittlelilly]

Yes, of course I realize I have to get the dr. to authorize it. The problem is getting the guy to respond to my many calls. I have also had various nurses tell me that they have written in the log that I want to talk to him. I am sick and tired of shitty care, literally and figuratively.

He did finally call me back today, and said he'd order it. Now I will need to follow up to make sure it's actually done.

[not now]

If the nursing home is as bad as you say and you feel they aren't giving him proper care you (and the rest of your family) have to be proactive. Suspect neglect? Call an ombudsman. Don't like the care the aids provide? Complain to the DON with specific details. Same goes for the nurses. Do this over and over until you see results. When I started at the nursing home I had certain residents who were impeccable (well above standards) every single day. Why? They had family who visited every single day, sometimes multiple times a day, and always did a once over of the room and their loved one. They were particular of the way things were done from what personal blankets were used on the bed to the way the room was arranged. They always walked a fine line between friendly to staff and having no problem voicing complaints.

Staff is easily burned out at these facilities. Management has to work with what they have which sometimes leads to staffing the bare minimum. Rarely does a resident have private insurance so the facility is running on government insurance. As both a CNA and an LVN at this type of facility I know the desire to spend as much time as possible with each resident. The problem is that it's not possible, every minute spent with one family member takes away from another.

[GEEKLOVE]

i suffered from c.diff for almost 3 months.
it was evil and hard to fight...and im 28.
i was on flagyl...twice.
it worked for me.

i was also taking florastor twice a day...
you can open the pill and put in a drink!
my diet consisted of home made chicken bone broth everday. bananas. unsalted saltines. water. some ginger ale.
i did not heal until i started the broth.
i could feel my body getting stronger each day after i started drinking it.
i slowly returned to a normal diet and now only eat antibiotic free range organic chicken...no beef for me.
i had to bleach everything in my house as not to spread spores.
i remember just feeling so down and awful from c.diff.
i even tested negative the second time i got the symptoms back but after the second dose of flagyl. florastor and bone broths i slowly got better.
best wishes to you and your family...its just going to take a little time.