Neighborhood nuisances -- our cats-- advice pls.--LONG

[xelakann]

We have 2 Bengal cats... if you know about Bengals you'd know that, to say the least, they have spunky personalities. VERY social, LOVES people, LOVES to talk (i.e. meow really loud) and can be territorial. Well our cats are all of the above but also are really starting to annoy our neighbors. Because our cats are fearless they pretty much dominate all the other cats in our hood. And they tend to annoy our non-cat neighbors because if they are outside working in their yard our cats are over there "talking" to them. They are extremely affectionate with people and it can be annoying.

The problem is our next door neighbor who has 4 cats of her own (and 4 dogs) just complained to us today saying our cats pick on and bully her cats. And while she was telling us this we see our cat chase one of her cats. Our female bengal is quite small, but fast and fearless... so though she chased the other cat once the other cat rolled on it's back Olive (our cat) backed off and kept running. Then our neighbor tells us she just bought 8 chickens. We'd love to have chickens but don't because I don't trust our cats (or the raccoons that live in the neighborhood). She tells us that she wants to let her chickens roam cage free (which is cool in theory) and that she is worried about our cats (again she has 4 cats and 4 dogs). I told I'd be worried too and asked her what kind of enclosure did she plan on having. She said none. And then implied (not so subtly) that we should get rid of our cats or she'd charge us for any chickens that they killed and for any vet bills she got because of cat fights or chicken injuries. Mind you she also plans on letting her dogs roam the yard with the chickens and she is hoping her dogs will just become protective of the chickens in order to keep our cats away.

Here's the deal, our cats are annoying and dominate and would probably love to chase a chicken... but we LOVE them and don't want to get rid of them. They are indoor/outdoor cats... we tried for 2 years to keep the just inside but they drove us crazy and escaped all the time to go outside. At one point I was trying to keep them inside when I was leaving the house and ended up bonking my son's head on the door in an effort to block them from getting out. At that point I said eff it, I'm done fighting with them.

Please give advice.

Honestly if I knew there was a big farm that would take them I'd consider it for their sake, but I don't want to get rid of them just because our neighbor got chickens.

[springbabes]

Cats are no threat to grown chickens. No chicken is going to allow itself to be chased by a cat. Your cats will be the ones running.

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by springbabes

Cats are no threat to grown chickens. No chicken is going to allow itself to be chased by a cat. Your cats will be the ones running.

I've read this on urban chicken blogs, I hope it is true.

[Learning_Mum]

Dude! They're cats! That's what they do! I have four cats. There are cats all around our neighbourhood. We have cats coming into our backyard and fighting with our cats - I just chase them off. Cats roam, that's what they do, and I think this whole 'inside' cat thing is ridiculous. I've even seen people imply that it was negligent to let your cat outside. That is just insane!

How will she know if it's one of your cats that kills a chicken anyway?!

I think your neighbour is way out of line. I know my neighbour gets annoyed because our youngest cat keeps climbing on her car and leaving dirty footprints. I have offered to buy her a car cover, which she didn't want so what else can I do? I don't see the cats get up there, and if I do I chase them off.

My only other suggestion would be to get them collars and one of those invisible electronic fence things so the can't leave your backyard, which I think sounds mean for the poor cats but might be your only option.

No way in hell would I be getting rid of my cats because my neighbour didn't like them. Tell her to get a water pistol and when she sees them to spray your cats with water. I imagine they wouldn't go back there after a while. Or is it Bengals that like water?

[xelakann]

Yep Bengals love water, ours jump in the shower with us.

She does squirt them with her water hose, which is fine with me. But she also the kind of person who has 4 dogs but gets mad when our dog or other dogs walking by pee on her bark mulch.

There is spot on her yard, right by our driveway (no plants or anything) that many dogs pee on, but she always get's mad at our dog.

[Learning_Mum]

Frankly she sounds like a bit of a nutter.

[springbabes]

Originally Posted by xelakann

I've read this on urban chicken blogs, I hope it is true.

Totally true. We've been raising free-range suburban chickens for 6 years and have yet to lose one to a cat. We have 3 cats, several neighborhood cats frequent our property, and I suspect a colony of feral cats lives in our field and none of them bother the chickens. They watch them and fantasize about them, but the cats don't mess with the chickens. Once I watched one of my game hens (you know how tiny game hens are!) take on my neighbor's giant tomcat. He went running home as fast he could.

Now, dogs are another story. Your neighbor is going to have a hard time keeping her dogs from killing her chickens but whatever.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with such an unreasonable neighbor.

[earthmama369]

Aside from keeping your cats inside or on a leash, there's really not much you or she can do to keep them out of her yard. You may want to be outside with them when you let them out, so that you can keep an eye on things. And may get them used to coming back to you for a treat so you have some chance of them coming when you call. I shake a treat canister when I need our cat to come home and that works about 80% of the time -- and knowing how much he likes treats, the other 20% probably just means he's out of earshot.

I would also be pretty clear and confident in your dealings with her. Let her know realistically what you are willing to do and what you cannot or will not do. It sounds like she might be inclined to blame your cats for any damage that happens whether or not she knows they were involved. I'm all for keeping good relations with a neighbor, but being a pushover can invite more problems than it prevents, you know? I'd be very up front about the fact that she does have 4 dogs and 4 cats and that she needs to look to them first if anything happens to her chickens -- especially the dogs. And that there are other dogs and cats in the neighborhood as well. It sounds like you're prepared and willing to cover any damages that your cats do cause, so just try to make sure you have a way to tell if they did or not, if at all possible.

[weliveintheforest]

If she does not plan to have any enclosure for the chickens, she is in for trouble, and not from your cats. Most dogs will chase chickens, and even if they don't mean to hurt them, unless they are very small dogs it is easy for them to kill a chicken. We have chickens and cats, and my cats are scared of the chickens. Even a big fearless cat would have a hard time against a chicken. It sounds like she is just looking for reasons to ask you to get rid of your cats.

[greenmagick]

Guess I will be the dissenter...you have no right to allow your cats on someone else's property. Leash laws are supposed to cover cats and dogs...fence them in.

ohh, and a cat most definitely can kill smaller chickens....and its not fair for the chickens to have a neigbor's cats chasing and stressing them out. My neigbors cat did it once and the neighbors immediately came over to apologize and understood it was their responsibility to keep their cat our of our yard.

[xelakann]

Originally Posted by greenmagick

Guess I will be the dissenter...you have no right to allow your cats on someone else's property. Leash laws are supposed to cover cats and dogs...fence them in.

ohh, and a cat most definitely can kill smaller chickens....and its not fair for the chickens to have a neigbor's cats chasing and stressing them out. My neigbors cat did it once and the neighbors immediately came over to apologize and understood it was their responsibility to keep their cat our of our yard.

I hear what you are saying, IF we were the only ones with cats in the neighborhood. But we have 2, she has 4, across the street they have 3, the house behind us has 1... so for her to ask US and only us to get rid of our cats now really makes me mad. Our one "bully" cat doesn't actually attack she as she doesn't continue to do any harm after she chases her kitty. I really think she thinks she's just playing.
And our cats are only outside for 20-30 mins at a time... never out all night. And if we are looking at laws, she has 8 chickens and the city of Portland says you can only have 3 urban chickens.

Regardless we want to do a fence or enclosure because we want them safe from traffic and other animals.

[rhiOrion]

Speaking of laws- What *is* the law in your area? Some places have strict leash laws that cover cats, too, and some don't.

Because if the law says your cat can't roam free, then you could have trouble. Though, first, she'd have to make her own cats inside only.

Generally I'd be a dissenter here and say that you're responsible for anything your cats do on someone else's property. But the fact that she has roaming cats herself makes it a different ball game- she's just as guilty as you are!

[xelakann]

The law in our county excludes cats from the leash law. And it says that you can't have more than 3 chickens without getting a permit, and if you want more and get a permit chickens aren't allowed to roam free within 25 ft of a residence and they have to have a proper enclosure.. So I know she is not permitted because she has no enclosure and our yards are small.

If our pets harmed or killed any of her chickens we'd pay to replace them or for vet bills. We aren't jerks here.

[rhiOrion]

Originally Posted by xelakann

The law in our county excludes cats from the leash law. And it says that you can't have more than 3 chickens without getting a permit, and if you want more and get a permit chickens aren't allowed to roam free within 25 ft of a residence and they have to have a proper enclosure.. So I know she is not permitted because she has no enclosure and our yards are small.

If our pets harmed or killed any of her chickens we'd pay to replace them or for vet bills. We aren't jerks here.

It sounds to me that she is just inviting the problem into her yard by not doing what she's supposed to do with the chickens.

[2xand2y]

O.K. First, I would kindly tell her that she should check the local county code before she gets any chickens. Then, she will be able to make informed decisions and hopefully she will get an enclosure.

Second, I would consider printing some info about chickens and cats vs. chickens and dogs. Again so she can make an informed decision. Also, this way she knows, that you know, that her dogs are more likely to hurt the chickens than your cats.

Lastly, I also live in an area where the leash law does not apply to cats and I will be the first to stand up and loudly say "Your cats in my yard is NOT OK." (Your, not meaning you specifically in this case xelakann.) Your cat roaming the neighborhood and causing my dog and the neighbors' dogs to bark, wakes my children from nap and that is not OK. Your cat using my yard, where my children play, as it's bathroom is not OK. And if I were to let my dog out to chase your cat out of the yard and my dog ran into your yard or chased you cat into the street and your cat was injured/killed you would not likely think that was OK. You would likely complain that I was breaking the leash law. I don't understand why it is acceptable in our society for cats to antagonize the neighbors but we are quick to protect the neighbors from dogs.

OK, rant over.

[WaitingForKiddos]

Another voice of desent..

It's your job to keep your pets out of and off of other's properity. No one should have to deal with cat poop in their garden because you want your cats to roam. No one should be bothered on their properity by someone else's animal.

As a chicken owner, if your cats were messing with my girls as they freeranged on my properity I'd be pissed. A cat can take down a young chicken, a sick chicken, a Banty or a 'too' tame silky. Your cat would be, at the least, hosed down.

If I were to continually find your cat pooping in my garden I would be putting up a live trap that day. The cat would be taken to the pound. I'm not dealing with unsanatary and possibly toxic cat poop.

I'm a cat owner too. My cat is indoors as it's the safest place for him, it protects the native wildlife from a nonnative species, and it prevents my neighbors from having MY pet on THEIR properity.

I don't consider any difference between a cat or a dog or anyother pet when they are on my properity.

[grahamsmom98]

If our pets harmed or killed any of her chickens we'd pay to replace them or for vet bills. We aren't jerks here.

Whoa, wrong attitude! They shouldn't have to worry about replacement or repair costs when it doesn't have to come to that, in the first place. This isn't about money!!

This isn't even about chickens!

It is about respecting boundries and people's rights. It's about being a good neighbor. It's about being a responsible pet owner.

Your cats should NEVER be in her yard, End. Of. Story.

Build a kennel for your cats to use when you put them outdoors. The cats have the fresh air, sunshine & grass to roll in. Provide them with a litter box inside the kennel and clean it daily to avoid smell and insects.

Your cats are PETS, not wild animals. Whatever the breed, there is NO reason they should be allowed to roam beyond their own property. Since cats are agile and intelligent creatures, they are very adept at climbing fences, going through hedges, escaping their yards easily. Electronic fencing does not work well with cats.

However, a kennel causes them no harm. As a fact, it protects them from other animals, protects the native wildlife and causes goodwill with the folks in the area.

We live out in the country, and we have this same problem with our neighbors down the road (they don't have their cats neutered/spayed and they keep producing kittens year-round). Their females have come to our woodshed to have their kittens and their cats hunt from near our birdfeeders.

These are the only folks in the area with cats. We have complained about this multiple times before taking the matter into our own hands. It isn't aginst the law here, so we trap and dispose. The neighbors assume the coyotes or owls catch their cats, and shrug their shoulders saying, "That's life in the country, we have plenty more!". Our trap gets a lot of use.

Any pet owners that allow a domesticated animal (dog, cat or cow) to roam is being irresponsible, plain and simple. You admit they are annoying, yet really don't want to address this as being your responsibility. Don't pass it off as being the neighbor's problem!

If your cats trespassed onto my property, rural or suburban, after I had complained about them to you, I'd trap them and dispose of them.

Just because the other neighbors have cats that roam doesn't make it okay for you to do the same. YOUR cats still have no right to be on her property, period.

If your neighbor wants to raise chickens and allow her cats & dogs access to them, that is her business. It will be HER fault, should anything befall any of the chickens.

Be a good neighbor (to ALL the neighbors): kennel your cats if they have to be outside.

Be a good pet owner: kennel your cats if they have to be outside.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by WaitingForKiddos

I'm a cat owner too. My cat is indoors as it's the safest place for him, it protects the native wildlife from a nonnative species, and it prevents my neighbors from having MY pet on THEIR properity.

Free-roaming chickens are non-native too.

Originally Posted by xelakann

Regardless we want to do a fence or enclosure because we want them safe from traffic and other animals.

Does your neighbor have a fence? Or are the chickens going to be literally roaming the neighborhood without any barrier at all?

[lucyem]

I would keep the cats in and make them a safe outdoor space. Something like this:
http://habitathaven.com/cat-enclosur...o-gallery.html
Then your neighbor can get her chickens and cannot blame you when they start to disappear. And it sounds like she will.

[greenmagick]

Originally Posted by ramama

Free-roaming chickens are non-native too.



Does your neighbor have a fence? Or are the chickens going to be literally roaming the neighborhood without any barrier at all?

Chickens dont kill off the native species of songbirds etc.

And seriously, it doesnt matter what the neighbor is doing with her chickens or cats....two wrongs dont make a right.