Is this normal? Well I don't think it's "normal" but ykwim

[honey-lilac]

Due to several issues I decided to start my nearly-3 year old son (and his little sister too, by default) on an elimination diet. He is unnecessarily hyper and occasionally gets red rashes on his cheeks, so we know he's sensitive to something, but not sure what. Our diet is great at home (organic, whole foods, etc.) but there is some occasional fast food mixed in. (And by occasional, I mean quite frequent - so that's why I'm really stepping up now with dealing with it.)

Anyway, the first step of this particular diet is to eat only potatoes, ground turkey, rice, pears, etc. for the first few days then add in more and more food. OK, fine. But today he has been melting down since breakfast, begging for food. He is not picky and will eat anything normally, and doesn't often request specific foods because he's happy with whatever we give him. But he is absolutely bonkers today. (His little sister is unaffected.) He is currently lying in front of the baby gate of the kitchen screaming for random food items. "COOKIES! CHEESE! CHEESEBURGERS! NOODLES! PLEASE MOMMY PLEASE! APPLES! TOMATOES! PLEAAAAAAAAAASE!!!!" etc. Totally unlike him. He has been like this since a short while after breakfast. I don't think he's hungry because he keeps saying he's not and I keep offering him foods he can eat but he doesn't want them. We didn't make a big deal out of it or anything before starting so it's not like we built it up or anything. DH said he's going through withdrawal or something and honestly that's what it seems like. But I've never heard of this happening. He even had the shakes a little. Do I give him some of the food he's asking for or tough it out? My gut says to just let him be for today and not give in but he's NEVER been like this before.

ETA: I'm going back to snuggling him because that's the only thing that's been working today, he's been screaming for hours now.

[demetria]

It sounds like he is having cravings for tastes, feeling or possibly nutrients.

[staceychev]

I've read that it's not uncommon to have vicious cravings for foods that our bodies are sensitive/allergic to. But, it does seem weird that this list is so long!

[honey-lilac]

So um.. He's going to be OK, right?

Right now he's somewhat content as he's eating his dinner. But boy, it's been one long day. He didn't even want to go for a walk!

[cristeen]

Totally sounds like withdrawal. It'll be a PITA for a while, but he'll be fine. Make sure he's getting plenty of protein and fat to combat the cravings.

[dogmom327]

If it's an option, you might look at having a naturopath test them for food sensitivities. We did that with both our children and it was much much easier than doing a full elimination diet. Plus it turns out our kids shouldn't be eating potatoes or rice which would have been a problem with the traditional elimination diets. It was still hard for a few days as DS really wanted a few foods that were definitely off limits (like milk).

[honey-lilac]

Hmm, that sounds good - except we don't have any extra money right not for a naturopath, and with DS's history he is uninsurable at the moment so unless Medicaid covers him (and it is really cruddy in this state, the services they cover) we can't take him to a typical allergy doctor (allerginist? is it?) either. I know he actually can eat potatoes and turkey at the very least because he's been on them before (when he was eating casein gluten free) without any of the symptoms. He seemed to calm down by evening and slept REALLY well last night though which is excellent for him. I'll see how it is today and hopefully it won't be so bad today. I probably won't wait out the full two weeks before starting to add in more food.

Also, I just realized this is BAD timing for a diet like this. His birthday is coming up and he has been talking about his birthday cake since his sister had HER birthday. If I don't get him one it would break his heart. Any ideas? Ostara is two days after his birthday and that'd be problematic too but I suppose I could give them other sorts of treats than the Ostara basket with little bits of chocolate in them (even if it was only going to be a chocolate bunny and about 3-4 chocolate mini-eggs each).

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by cristeen

Totally sounds like withdrawal. It'll be a PITA for a while, but he'll be fine. Make sure he's getting plenty of protein and fat to combat the cravings.

ita. he's basically asking for carb/sugar foods and dairy, right? not to knock the diet youve chosen but i dont know if rice and potatoes, as a pp mentioned, are always so easy to tolerate either.

[organicmidwestmama]

Originally Posted by honey-lilac

...Also, I just realized this is BAD timing for a diet like this. His birthday is coming up and he has been talking about his birthday cake since his sister had HER birthday. If I don't get him one it would break his heart. Any ideas? Ostara is two days after his birthday and that'd be problematic too but I suppose I could give them other sorts of treats than the Ostara basket with little bits of chocolate in them (even if it was only going to be a chocolate bunny and about 3-4 chocolate mini-eggs each).

for my daughters bday i made a gluten-free, grain-free, dairy-free strawberry "cheesecake" from this book http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Gratitud.../dp/1556437447 , using a teensy bit of honey as sweetener, no one at the party thought it was weird at all, i loved it!-

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by honey-lilac

(And by occasional, I mean quite frequent - so that's why I'm really stepping up now with dealing with it.)

Anyway, the first step of this particular diet is to eat only potatoes, ground turkey, rice, pears, etc. for the first few days then add in more and more food. OK, fine. But today he has been melting down since breakfast, begging for food.

tbh, I think that's probably too big of a change for an almost 3yo. I am on an ED that allows slightly more than that, and it is HARD. It's emotionally hard. I never want to see rice again thankyouverymuch. lol

Is there a particular reason you want to go with a TED? I totally understand wanting to get it figured out asap (that's why I limited myself so much), but it's hard to get proper nutrition eating only those foods for a week. (I think most ED's recommend giving it more than a week to see if all the symptoms go away).

Also, if he's still nursing, you may need to go on the same ED.

You could eliminate the top 8 allergens, and possibly also the top intolerance foods (corn, gluten...some others maybe?). It's also possible he could be sensitive to food additives and other chemicals like salicylates. My advice would be to pick something like that and keep a food diary. You can find all kinds of good rice products that are sals, additive, and top-allergen free- rice snacks, plain rice cakes, rice milk (but not fortified), plain rice cereal (I thought I was going to lose my mind before I found that rice cereal and rice milk were "safe").

[honey-lilac]

Hmm, OK let's see. I'm hearing from you guys that the traditional elimination diets might not be perfect so let me see.

Today was actually pretty good, I switched up their food a little, they did have some plain rice cakes and also a cup of rice milk before bed (they no longer nurse but they always have a cup of milk before sleep and I thought it would be too traumatic to make them stop that ritual cold turkey, just subbed rice milk). There were no rashes today nor the infamous "pink cheeks" and DD's lingering diaper rash is starting to clear up. Same hyper activity as always but there was no crying at the gate at all, or asking for any food. They did ask for a LOT of water which I happily gave them. I cooked some pears for dinner along with their baked potato and turkey, they were all over it.

I'm going to add in eggs in for breakfast tomorrow, because allergen or not I know they can handle it and when we start off the day that way they seem happier through the morning. And I think tomorrow I'll give them some grilled chicken for dinner as well.

I'm not adding fruits or vegetables back in yet because I *know* some of their "stuff" is from them; I want to add them in one at a time and keep a diary of their reactions. Same with dairy. We don't do additives home or even much processed food (rice milk or rice cakes or other food that has one or two ingredients on the label are OK sometimes but are mostly too expensive), but they have been getting the pink cheek stuff even when we went for looooong stretches with no eating out, so I know there's some natural stuff they're just not good with right now - even if they adore eating every fruit known to man etc. I'm suspicious of salic... the apple chemical, whatever it's called. I want a few more days without the extra fruit to see if everything clears their system and see if it makes any difference. If not, oh well, but it's worth a week or so trying, right?

Thanks for your help, I appreciate all the comments and welcome more.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by honey-lilac

I'm suspicious of salic... the apple chemical, whatever it's called.

salicylates
That's what I think ds is sensitive to. Do you have a list of sals foods? No sals fruits are basically pears (peeled) and bananas. But bananas are high in amines which some (many?) sals sensitive people react to.

You seem to have a good start on ideas of what isn't safe. If it were me, I'd add stuff that I was sure wasn't a problem pretty fast too. Then keep track just in case.

I don't know how relevant this is, but I've read that some sals sensitive people can't do lots of potatoes.

[honey-lilac]

Oh, that would be BAD if potatoes were ruled out! Potatoes are the staple in our house as we don't like either rice nor beans much.

Are sweet potatoes better?

The kids love bananas but I've been trying to hold off on them, I didn't know about amines, just wasn't sure if they were completely safe so I wanted to trial them gradually.

Incidentally, is there a way to store them? I know if you freeze them whole they turn nasty black, is it possible to freeze them peeled or will they turn nasty?

[organicmidwestmama]

sweet potatoes are not from the same plant family as regular potatoes, they are actually from the morning glory fam, if that heps!

[kjbrown92]

Red cheeks can be from salicylate sensitivity, but it can also just be a food intolerance reaction by itself (my kids aren't sal sensitive, but DS did get red cheeks from apples, and DS got them from soy).

My DS had a 3-day withdrawal when we took out gluten. Begging and crying for just one bite of bread. It was extremely hard, and he was 7yo at the time.

There are cakes you can do that at least don't have the main trigger foods in them, for his birthday, and then go back to the elimination diet. My DD2's birthday is this weekend and she wants a "snowman" cake (not sure what that means) and we're dairy, gluten, soy, corn free (plus almonds, apples, carrots, cocoa, cane sugar, honey, etc.) so it's always a challenge to come up with "treats". Make sure that you're food journal is really detailed. It's the best tool there is.