question about Mormon baptism

[christianmomof3]

I have heard that they automatically baptise all children at age 8.
Why age 8? Are there any requirements of belief or is it just an age thing?

[mumkimum]

Age 8 is considered the 'age of accountability' - you are believed to understand your actions/sins such that you may be held accountable for them. Also, it isn't exactly automatic - parents or the child can opt to put off baptism (some do for a year or even a few years by choice, as it is still a choice whether or not to be baptized into the faith). I do think there is an interview involved with church leadership about one's belief as well - but don't remember.

[christianmomof3]

What is their policy if one parent is LDS and the other (divorce) is not?
Can they baptise the child without the permission of the non-LDS parent?

[mumkimum]

I'm not entirely sure - I'm no longer involved with the church, but was growing up and my father wasn't a member. My sisters & I chose to be baptized at 8, and my dad had no objection. I think (ideally) they'd want permission of both parents . Someone with more current involvement might be able to answer this better.

[ZorroZ]

They need to have permission from both parents. If one parent refuses, then the child can not be baptized. Now once the child turns 18 then they are free to do what they want, they no longer need parents permission.

[shanniesue2]

so what about proxy baptism?

[A&A]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

so what about proxy baptism?

It is done for people who have passed away, not for anyone living.

[K-Mom3]

There IS a belief requirement. Anybody who wants to be baptized (including 8 yr olds) is interviewed about their faith and their understanding of the covenant they are making with God.

However, I have always wondered why the age of accountability is 8. It seems so young. So many people are baptized at age 8 and feel like the covenant they made means nothing and don't choose to follow their commitments when they get older. That is one of the questions I'll have to ask in the next life.

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by christianmomof3

What is their policy if one parent is LDS and the other (divorce) is not?
Can they baptise the child without the permission of the non-LDS parent?

Baptism is not automatic, eight is just the minimum age.

Poor Cora, she had to convince three people. Her dad (my ex,) who is atheist and anti-religion, the bishop, who had to approve it, and myself, and I take the covenant really seriously so I wouldn't have let her if I didn't think she understood. She convinced her father, and I wasn't sure she would, but she had really thought it through.

[seattlemamma]

so what about proxy baptism?

Even with proxy baptism there is still a choice. You are standing in/doing the work for for the person who is no longer living on earth and they can still choose to accept the work done for them or not.

[shanniesue2]

Originally Posted by seattlemamma

Even with proxy baptism there is still a choice. You are standing in/doing the work for for the person who is no longer living on earth and they can still choose to accept the work done for them or not.

I guess it just seems disrespectful to me. What if you turned the scenario around and someone was baptising your (not necessarily you, seattlemamma...more of a general mormon you) deceased loved one in a tradition that you didn't believe in.

I guess on the one hand, if you don't believe in it, then who cares... but on the other hand it still feels disrespectful to me.

[ZorroZ]

personally, I would feel honored. Before I even thought about talking to the missionaries (because religion scared me!) & wayyy before I joined, my LDS friend told me all about his church. When I heard about proxy baptism I thought that was the sweetest thing I heard in a long time.

Even now....if a church did "work" for me after I passed, I would have no problem w/ it. Personally.

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

I guess it just seems disrespectful to me. What if you turned the scenario around and someone was baptising your (not necessarily you, seattlemamma...more of a general mormon you) deceased loved one in a tradition that you didn't believe in.

I guess on the one hand, if you don't believe in it, then who cares... but on the other hand it still feels disrespectful to me.

But we're not baptizing them, actually. We're offering them a baptism. If they, from the spirit world, accept it, then the baptism is effective. If they don't, then we're all just standing around getting wet. It is simply offering something that must be done here on Earth to those who didn't get it while they were here. It's entirely their choice to accept it. So those "baptismal records" of the baptisms by proxy are really just records of who has been offered a baptism, so we don't waste time doing it 100x for the same person.

[Shami]

Cora's mama
How do you know if they accept it?

[CorasMama]

we don't. That's not our job or our business. It's our job to offer it, and they, in the Spirit World, choose.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

I guess on the one hand, if you don't believe in it, then who cares... but on the other hand it still feels disrespectful to me.

A lot of people feel that way.

[InMediasRes]

I personally don't want myself baptized by proxy or my marriage sealed in the temple after I die. I also find it disrespectful. I'm cool if other people think it's okay, but I don't want it done for me. I guess it just feels like someone is saying they didn't trust me to live my life and follow God to the best of my ability during my own life. I suppose I have no real choice in the matter.

I also find the concept of redemption after you die really interesting. The idea that you have a second chance or that you can make a choice that changes the judgment about what you did during your life is sort of unusual to me, but I can see the value in it.

I personally think that which religion you belonged to isn't going to matter much when I meet the Big Guy. At least, that's one of the many questions I have for Him anyway.

[umsami]

Re: proxy baptism... part of me is offended... part of me likes it. I think it's nice that it's just a choice, basically... and the person in the spiritual world (who one would assume is more enlightened after their death) can say, "gee thanks" or "no thanks." I guess my feeling is that if some relative of mine, feels strongly enough to do this after I die, then I'm going to try and see it that they're doing it out of love for me... even though they probably know that Great Aunt Umsami was a Muslim.

But on a different note, I kind of look at it and ask has God used this practice, whether you believe in it or not, for good? And for me, I can say "Yes...God has used this for good"... because look at all the wonderful genealogical records we now have thanks to the Church of LDS that probably would not exist (or at least not as completely) if they didn't practice proxy baptisms. I remember back in 11th grade doing a genealogy project, and we went to the local LDS church, and used their records (open to anybody... didn't have to be Mormon.) And thanks to them, I got an "A" and was able to research my family back to the Mayflower. Pretty darn cool IMHO. So, yeah... the "A" in a class I was not doing well in, probably leaves me a little biased.

[seattlemamma]

I personally don't want myself baptized by proxy or my marriage sealed in the temple after I die. I also find it disrespectful. I'm cool if other people think it's okay, but I don't want it done for me. I guess it just feels like someone is saying they didn't trust me to live my life and follow God to the best of my ability during my own life. I suppose I have no real choice in the matter.

The Church has made a policy that if it is not a direct descendant to yourself you must get permission from living relatives. LDS perform these ordinances, because they believe they are following God's commandments. They do not do it out of arrogance, to gain bonus points, to earn their way to heaven etc...They are simply being obedient and have a testimony of what they are doing is true or right. I think that is all anyone can do.

I also find the concept of redemption after you die really interesting. The idea that you have a second chance or that you can make a choice that changes the judgment about what you did during your life is sort of unusual to me, but I can see the value in it.

It is a little more complicated than that. For more info I would go to the LDS Missionaries..However, isn't that just what baptism does for a person on earth or with most religions that you convert to..you get "a second chance or that you can make a choice that changes the judgment about what you did during your life" Life on earth is such a short part of our existence I would change "your life" to 'your past'

I personally think that which religion you belonged to isn't going to matter much when I meet the Big Guy. At least, that's one of the many questions I have for Him anyway.

I hope your right! I don't know how many people are truly sure, without(keyword) a doubt that their religion is the correct one. I do believe that if I have done my best to live how I truly believe "The Big Guy" wants me to live that I will be accepted and loved by him. Our family tries to live by the "Two Greatest Commandments" in the Bible and by John 3:16

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by seattlemamma

The Church has made a policy that if it is not a direct descendant to yourself you must get permission from living relatives.

That's actually not quite true. It is only true if it's within X years of that person's death (I don't remember how many.)