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What do you do when you can't make income and expenses balance?

post #1 of 73
Thread Starter 
So....I know that when you are going into debt, the 2 options are to decrease spedning, or increase income (or both). Well...what do you do when spending is decreased to literally subsistence, and income is as high as you can make it for the people you are, but yet...you are still in the negative each month???
What is the solution then?
I've had some eye-opening done recently, and...am just unsure how to proceed.
post #2 of 73
Then you need to do something radical to either increase income or decrease spending.

If you share your budget maybe we could help come up with some ideas for you. When/where do you both work? Maybe we could find some income increasing solutions, too.
post #3 of 73
You start juggling bills more or less until you can increase your income.
post #4 of 73
Thread Starter 
LOL....see, those are still the same 2 answers.
The budget does currently have some areas to cut, but the part that is freaking me out is that even if we DO cut out ALL discretionary spending, we still don't make enough. And we are both working as much as we can, realistically. I have computed it over and over, and we are at the "break even" point where if we were to work more, we would actually be making less because daycare would be taking more than teh additional income we could make. Right now, we mostly work opposite in order to not pay daycare at all.
Our biggest issues are that we each have sizable debt obligations that decimate our income. I have student loans, and he has child support. No matter what we do, he can't stop paying his support, and I can't stop paying my loans..well, I guess i could, but that doesnt gain me anything in the long run, you know?
We can't make more money without significantly altering our educatoinal status...which we cant do because we have neither the money, nor the time, to do such a thing.
post #5 of 73
Someone needs to work more... are you both working 2nd jobs... its not fun but in a 24 hr day you each *could* work 12 hrs ( or 8 and 16)... yes that means your child/ren dont get the ideal time with you etc... but you do what you gotta do.

Can you take in kids for babysitting to spend time with your kids and make $$, can you sell stuff or yard sale for quick $$... do you qualify for assistance on anything?

Dont forget about weekends for work too!!
post #6 of 73
Defer your loans temporarily and have at least one of you get a part time job out of the home, and then consider doing some babysitting in your home.
post #7 of 73
I know in Cal you can apply for programs that will help pay for the daycare. My friend just did this and gets $40/day towards daycare expenses and this is just for 1 child. I don't know how much they make, but they have 2 incomes.
post #8 of 73
Are these federal student loans? We had 5 years of forbearance which we needed...we couldn't pay prior to that. In fact, we had already had a forbearance for three years then refinanced with Sallie Mae and got another five after we went through another financial drama. (Pay the interest though, so it doesn't compound while you're in forbearance!) They also have some income-sensitive repayment options if forbearance is not an option.

What concerns me is that you say you do have areas to cut, but you are concerned because you'll still be in the red once cutting, but you've yet to cut. But you'll be in the red less than now if you do cut farther, right?
post #9 of 73
is his child support amount modifiable?

are you taking the maximum tax deductions (or is it exemptions? I can never remember) possible from your paychecks?

do you have bare minimum insurance coverage and ridiculously high deductibles?

are you signed up for all the assistance you're even remotely available for?
post #10 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra15 View Post
Someone needs to work more... are you both working 2nd jobs... its not fun but in a 24 hr day you each *could* work 12 hrs ( or 8 and 16)... ... do you qualify for assistance on anything?

Dont forget about weekends for work too!!

hahahahah, yes, we work all weekend, lol. No, we aren't working the full 24 hours, but close...probably about 18-20 most days. the problem is, trying to work a 3rd or 4th job around the 2 we already have scheduling wise it would be a nightmare...i honestly can't see how it would work. Dh's job MUST come first, then I am blessed to have a job I can work around his schedule...I don't know of any job I could get where I could work it around BOTH those other jobs. Plus, if we work 24 hours per day, that means only 1 of us would be home while the kids are sleeping, so how is the person who is working while the kids are sleeping ever supposed to get ANY sleep if the kids are awake the entire time that person is at home?
Quote:
Originally Posted by springbride View Post
I know in Cal you can apply for programs that will help pay for the daycare. My friend just did this and gets $40/day towards daycare expenses and this is just for 1 child. I don't know how much they make, but they have 2 incomes.
We dont even remoetely qualify for any help
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin2004 View Post
is his child support amount modifiable?
not down He's paying the standard state rate, but it's for 3 kids, and he was the sole breadwinner when they divorced, so he got hit with a high percentage.
are you taking the maximum tax deductions (or is it exemptions? I can never remember) possible from your paychecks?
yep
do you have bare minimum insurance coverage and ridiculously high deductibles?
we dont even have health insurance We have the cheapest coverage for our vehicles and house.
are you signed up for all the assistance you're even remotely available for?
We're not eligible for anything, period. i'm a social worker, lol. I know. the problem is, everything goes by gross income, and on paper, our gross income is middle-class...it's just we personally dont get to keep but a small percentage of the money we earn. That's the reason i simply don't see any possible way out of the situation.

I messed up big time after college and didnt pay on my loans and got into all sorts of trouble, defaulted, etc. At this point, I have no forbearance time available to me. so that's not an option either. Oh, and the reason we haven't yet cut all discretionary spending is for a couple reasons. 1..we are waiting for a few things to "end" this year...contracts and stuff we got ourselves into that, at this point, it will cost LESS to just finish it out than try to "break" the contract due to the fees involved. I've calculated it out carefully, trust me!!! And the other one is food....i could, technically, cut it down to just ramen or whatever, but I have grave concerns about my childrens health. Right now, we are still buying a relatively healthy diet. i struggle with how much to cut this down, because i know that eventually, even if it is 10 years from now, we WILL get out of debt, but the possible damage I could do to my young, developing children by feeding them crap for even a year or 2 could be devastating in terms of lifelong health consequences. so, I've been learning a lot really quickly about how to feed healthy, nutritiouis food, for less. But yes, we technically could cut a little from the food budget. I also worry because dh's car is 12+ years old and in bad shape, and he must have a reliable vehicle for work....so that weighs on my mind. If it goes kaput, we'll be in more trouble.
Well..i guess the only way is to try and make more money...I truly dont see how i can get another job that will be able to work around the hours of my current job, but I'll have to try and find something I guess....I just really have no idea how it will work.
post #11 of 73
I don't know if this is an option but can you move to a less expensive home? Also, I don't know about all assistance programs, but at WIC (if you are eligible) they do take into account the number of dependents (his other children should count since he is supporting them) and household expenses. I would also talk to the student loan people and let them know your situation and see what they can help with. They would rather get something than nothing I would think.

post #12 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post

Oh, and the reason we haven't yet cut all discretionary spending is for a couple reasons. 1..we are waiting for a few things to "end" this year...contracts and stuff we got ourselves into that, at this point, it will cost LESS to just finish it out than try to "break" the contract due to the fees involved. I've calculated it out carefully, trust me!!! And the other one is food....i could, technically, cut it down to just ramen or whatever, but I have grave concerns about my childrens health.
If you're talking about contracts, that means cell phones and satellite TV, right? Those need to go. If you can't pay them, you can't pay them. They're both luxuries that you can't afford. End of story. What are they going to do if you stop paying? Stop your service? Fine. You'll still have a roof over your head, which you won't if you stop paying your mortgage.

As for food, you don't have to go down to ramen noodles, but you can cut costs dramatically and still eat healthfully. Do you garden in the summer?
post #13 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitenites View Post
Do you garden in the summer?
That was my first thought when reading your second post, OP, and concerning food costs. I don't care where you live, you can grow *something* to supplement your diet. Even in an apartment. You can find a few free buckets, buy a 10 cent seed pack at Wal-Mart and get some soil and plant a tomato plant that will give you tomatoes all summer. That's just one radical idea to extend your food budget.

Ask farmers in your area about gleaning. Some will, for a small fee ($5), let people come onto their property after harvest and take whatever is on the ground. It's still very good food, just could not be mechanically harvested or fell during the harvest.

Check into U-pick farms for cheap produce during the summer.

Barter with local farmers. If you sew, make soap, weave, knit, crochet, bake... barter your skills for food. And advertise that you are looking to barter services. If bartering doesn't work, try to sell what you can make. Actually, you could put an add on Craigslist for bartering anything you need.

If you eat meat, buy it by the side/animal. Much cheaper in the long run.

Make your own bread. Make your own soap. Make clothes that you can or buy thrift and rework. Switch to family cloth, eliminate paper from the house and use cloth for everything. Turn off the shower when lathering in the shower. Reuse bath water... instead of letting it go down the drain, flush with it. Use power strips and shut everything off at the power strip when not in use. If you're baking dish A, go ahead and prepare and bake dish B at the same time even if you're not going to eat it that day. Just reheat. There are a lot of way to get REALLY radical with thriftiness.

How about babysitting 3rd shift? Many single parents need to work that 11 - 7 shift and have a hard time getting people to watch their kids even though it's basically all sleep-time.

As for sleeping when the kids are awake... MANY families (with kids) have parents that work 3rd shift. You learn to cope. My dad worked 3rd shift when he was a civil servant and we just... had to learn to be quiet or take it outside. If the financial situation is bad and you do what you have to do, then the kids have to do their part, too, even if it means being quiet when Daddy or Mommy are asleep.

Finally, I agree to call all the companies you have a contract with. Tell them that you can't pay any more and ask to either be let out of the contract or for a reduced fee. It never hurts to ask. But yes, those services (I'm assuming things like cell and satellite) have to go.
post #14 of 73
Can you start visiting a food pantry? Sell any extra stuff on Craigslist and ebay?
post #15 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarthyMamaofDaisy View Post
Can you start visiting a food pantry? Sell any extra stuff on Craigslist and ebay?
Now that I have just responded to your decluttering post, I take back what I said about not selling stuff. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff in your house that could be sold. It's not too soon to start culling things for a spring yardsale. It sounds like you have a garage where you could sort and store stuff for sale.

Truly, with the decluttering/selling, your kids will not significantly miss the extra stuff, especially if you make sure they have ample opportunity to identify and lay claim to their very favorite toys. I would start there by helping them figure out what their top toys are, and remove all else for later yardsaling. You'd be surprised at how low that number can be. Help them choose basic toys that will get years of ongoing use. I've posted this before, but at 11, 10, 7, and 6, my kids still consistently use only this: dressup/silks, books, art supplies, trains, blocks, legos, Playmobil (and other little guys), tea set, dolls/stuffed animals, dollhouse, castle, ship, and games. (They outgrew the little kitchen, or I would have included that also). I don't know how that compares to what you have, but seriously, we have gotten rid of so much and they are so happy with having just these basics.

I see exciting possibilities here - you can make some money and declutter your house at the same time. It will be so worth it. Give yourself a little time to get used to the idea, and then get to work culling.

As far as the rest of your situation, I would echo all that has been said before...deferment or loan consolidation to lower your payments, negotiating child support if possible, finding ways to eat healthy cheaper (this is the right board for that kind of info, for sure), considering moving, revisiting services you might qualify for.

Also I would encourage you to think hard about whether you've really brought everything down to subsistence. You may not be willing to shave any more off your spending, and it might feel really uncomfortable, but I think many of us believe we have hit bottom when in fact we could adjust our expectations and continue creatively cutting corners (no, I don't say that lightly - I have just experienced it over and over). It sounds like you and your DH are working very hard to make ends meet.

You might want to post your budget for helpful review here, even if it is hard. And if you can, read through the archives for more ideas on the reasonable extremes some people here go to. Good luck.
post #16 of 73
I think all you can do is get creative and be persistant. Maybe you could stalk local classifieds (for anyone looking for childcare, house keeping, lawn work, etc.) and put ads up in your neighbourhood that you're available for such tasks. Check out your local library for crafting books and find something that you could maybe sell from home? Do you own a vehicle?

Maybe you'd be better off financially taking kids into your home than leaving to go to work? You could easily make $120/day in cash with 3 kids.

Can you find a cheaper place to live or take in a renter/rent a room out?

It's easy to stay focused on you and your family. Don't forget, you're part of a greater community. Someone out there needs something you can offer.

Keep your mind WIDE open. Something will make this mess work!

P.S. Have you read any Dave Ramsey? He's good at getting your but in gear and getting you hopeful that there IS a way out and gives you the steps you need to get there.
post #17 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by amyamanda View Post

I see exciting possibilities here - you can make some money and declutter your house at the same time. It will be so worth it. Give yourself a little time to get used to the idea, and then get to work culling.

.
:

I read Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover AND the Fly Lady's Sink Reflections at the same time, and let me tell ya, that was a life-altering summer!

We got rid of our cr@p that I worked hard to collect, re-claimed our living space, got a good start on our Emergency Fund with the $ from our yard sale, and the mental weight that was lifted was simply rejouvenating!!

After you get rid of the junk, it's harder to bring just anything back into your home and I've found myself spending less on "things". Sell it, Sell it, Sell it!!! Sell everything but the kids!!
post #18 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitenites View Post
If you're talking about contracts, that means cell phones and satellite TV, right? Those need to go. If you can't pay them, you can't pay them. They're both luxuries that you can't afford. End of story. What are they going to do if you stop paying? Stop your service? Fine. You'll still have a roof over your head, which you won't if you stop paying your mortgage.

As for food, you don't have to go down to ramen noodles, but you can cut costs dramatically and still eat healthfully. Do you garden in the summer?
hahahahahahahah
Nope, we've never had cable tv nor cell phones, ever. We got a magic jack and use that for phone service, and we have the cheapeast internet, which I am required to have for work.

We can put in a small garden, and have started preparing for that. We've also talked to my parents, who have a larger piece of land(still in the city, but its like 3 lots attached to their house, so a very big yard for the city)
and are going to be able to use some of their land as well.

Our mortgage is $550 per month, which includes taxes and insurance. This is WAY lower than any amount of rent we could possibly pay.
I doubt anyone could possibly say we overbought on our house, lol.

Anyway, I wasn't really looking for help really, I'm sorry i went down that path. I am just interested in what people would say when the income and spending are not balancing, but yet you have done everything you can. I know we can cut, but what really shocked me was that even if we cut out EVERTYTHING extra, the amount of money that Dh and I earn does not cover the basic bills. Mortgage, water, gas, electricity, internet, food, car insurance. those are the absolutes we must have. Even when you cut out gym membership, car payment, credit card payments, organic coop food costs, and all the little things we buy, birthday parties and presents and xmas and clothes, etc - if i eliminated them entirely, my dh and I , who are college educated adults who work a combined 80+ hours per week do not make enough money to pay for basic shelter, clothes and food for our family. I'm more in awe of the wretched commentary on society than in looking for ways to help. I'm great with budgeting and being frugal and all that....I'm just straight up shocked that this is where our life is.

But because my dh made one mistake marrying and having kids with someone that wasn't the right person for him, and because I made one mistake, as a CHILD, by having bought into the middle class mentailty of "you must go to college, don't worry, it's good debt" and signing up for crushing student loans when i was barely 18 years old and did NOT truly comprehend what i was doing, that now, 15 years later, we literally can't support ourselves in a bare subsistence level of existence.

I'm not all that worried, because even if we have to keep the debt riding, which we can do, we're good at it and actually have excellent credit, it'll all be over in 6 years anyway....that's when the child support is over.
post #19 of 73
Thread Starter 
I shoudl go back and read the post in my decluttering thread, but just wanted to say,m really, there is harldy anything that could be sold for money, and the time and energy it would take to have a yardsale or list on CL or whetever would NOT be worth it at ALL...it woulod be MUCH more fiscally prudent to just throw all teh stuff out and use the time i would have spent selling the stuff to WORK more hours....when i say nothing we have is nice enough to sell..I MEAN IT. Keep in mind, 99% of everything we have we GOT secondahand/used. It is all in bad shape. all the clothes and linens are stained to heck, and/or ripped. The toys are old, worn, broken or missing pieces (that stuff is easy to toss, i'm getting better at it) or else simply not worth much on the market, it's literally all a dime a dozen here....and i can't justify spending even 5 hours having a yardsale, when I'd be lucky to get 10-25 cents for most litle toy stuff, maybe a dollar for the bigger stuff, when in that same amount of time working at my job, I could have made $60, for sure. It doesn't make sense.
post #20 of 73
Looking at your location-- if you are very close to Michigan, Michigan has lower housing costs than Indiana (comparing, say, Niles to South Bend) so if commuting is an option, you could consider that.

ETA-- if working more hours is the best plan, it's what you'll have to do. Can you take on some private therapy clients?
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