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Do You Believe (or Does Your Religion Teach) that God's Standards Change? - Page 2

post #21 of 27
I believe the Bible was written by men - some inspired, some not, not by God and not by women. As such I think it is reflective of the time in which those people lived, what they were concerned with around them and the political scene at the time. I also think that human nature in many senses remains unchanged, so some of their concerns (Gluttony, sloth, murder, for example) are as valid today as they were 2000-5000 years ago.

I don't identify with "humanoid" kind of God with standards, so I'm not sure how to answer that question. I do think the nature of the divine is influenced by the consciousness of all things on earth - so in that sense, I think the divine force is changeable - especially as people have come to understand the world and themselves.
post #22 of 27
As a Christian, I follow the path of Christ. To me, that means that I follow Christ's teachings. I believe that the Old Testement and the writings of Paul in the new testement can be beneficial as historical documents deepening the context of the pre- and early church but I am not bound by the laws of the old testement. Everything Jesus spoke about in the new testement covers the heart of what is important.

Also, why the heck would someone (in this century esspecially) follow the "laws" of Paul. Those weren't Jesus's teachings or laws, they were one man's interpretation of them. If Jesus said not to braid my hair, I wouldn't do it but Paul has no holding over me. Paul is not my saviour.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Also, why the heck would someone (in this century esspecially) follow the "laws" of Paul. Those weren't Jesus's teachings or laws, they were one man's interpretation of them. If Jesus said not to braid my hair, I wouldn't do it but Paul has no holding over me. Paul is not my saviour.
Some believe that the Epistles are also part of the inspired Word of God, and that what is contained is also God's direction to us. That is why.

It's not all about braiding hair. A major theme is commands that we should all be willing to follow--loving others, cultivating joyful living, thankfulness to God, a contented spirit, etc.
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post
If you're Christian and believe that Jesus's death covered all of the OT laws... does that negate the fact that God called for them anyways? Does that get you out of obeying the 10 Commandments... why or why not? Jesus himself references the Shema as the most important commandment along with to love your neighbor as itself..so it seems to me, that he didn't intent to negate the OT in any way.
The OT is full of types and pictures of Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of all of the types and pictures in the OT. These pictures and types help us to see who Christ is in the NT. Example: If I show you a picture of my mom and I tell you all about her, you may have a good understanding of who she is. However, if I take you to meet her, and you spend time with her, then you will really know her. You will really love her.

The law of God is God's word. As such, the law is God's testimony, God's expression, a revelation of God to His people. The law of God reveals God's attributes, showing that He is jealous, holy, loving, righteous, truthful, and pure. As the word of God and the testimony, the expression of God, the law is a type of Christ as God's Word and God's testimony, God's expression.

Matthew 5:17
17 Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill.


Since all people sin and fall short of God's standard (the Law), we need Christ to live inside of us and be the Law within us. In a sense, Jesus was a walking Ten Commandments. If you ask Jesus to come and make His home in your heart, you will have the Ten Commandments inside of you and no longer outside. The church, which is the body of Christ on earth, is for the expression of Christ on the earth.

In a sense, the standard in the NT is even higher than the OT. Not only can we not murder, but if we are angry with someone it is like committing murder. Not only can we not commit adultery, but if we even look and lust it is like committing adultery.

You see? It is a matter of what is in our heart. In the OT, God was outside of us, and the law was outside of us. In the NT, if a person has asked Jesus to live inside of them, then once God comes in, the Laws are inside of them.

Still, I fail! Even with God as Jesus Christ living in me, I fail everyday. That doesn't mean that I don't try. It means that I am a fallen sinner. When I fail, I repent and ask the Lord, and/or person I offended, to forgive me. I confess to the Lord Jesus that I am a failure and oh how much I need Him!

Also, when we are born again, we are like little babes in Christ. We don't necessary 'know' the Bible in order to be born again Christians. I didn't know a thing when Jesus came into my heart. I was the OPPOSITE of modest. As Christ grows in me and He shines more of His divine light in me, I am becoming more and more modest. So, I don't look at other Christians who are showing a lot of skin and think badly of them. It might just mean that they are still babes in the Lord or that they haven't had a specific touch from the Lord to cover that particular area of their body. It's just where they are in their walk. Christians are all in a process of becoming glorified (expressing God). Some are further a long and it's okay.

If I come along, all modest and such, and tell a young Christian, don't show any cleavage and your shorts must be to your knees, this is an outward law that I am placing on her. She doesn't have to go to the Lord and even ask Him what He thinks because I've already TOLD her what to do. So, I am cheating her out of an experience of praying and conversing with the Lord about her clothing. In fact, my telling her how to dress may completely turn her away from the Lord and the church. Every person has to go to the Lord and converse and pray about the details of their living.

Sorry, I got so long winded.
post #25 of 27
I don't think that God's standards change. I think that man's "interpretation" changes to suit whatever group is in power.
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleplum View Post
I don't think that God's standards change. I think that man's "interpretation" changes to suit whatever group is in power.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post
Jesus never ate pork. It's pretty much clear if you read the NT, that he was a good Jewish guy, who did his best to follow the laws of the OT. So, why is it all of a sudden O.K. for Christians to eat pork and shellfish just because Peter had a dream in Acts 10?
I want to address something regarding Acts 10. All of those animals, clean and unclean, represent people. Because the OT laws required Jews to be separated from Gentiles, who were considered unclean, there was some confusion in the early church about how Jewish believers were to conduct themselves with Gentile believers.
Yes, in the beginning of the chapter it seems like it is about eating, but by the end of Acts 10, it is about believers coming together.

Cornelius, a gentile (unclean), is visited by an angel of God and told to send for Peter, who was Jewish (clean). While Cornelius' soldiers were traveling to find Peter, Peter goes into a trance and sees this vision with clean and unclean animals. In the vision, Peter is told to rise, slay and eat. Peter argues and says, I've never eaten anything common and unclean. Three times the voice in the vision tells Peter, IT'S OKAY.

Peter is confused about the vision and pondering over it when Cornelius' men come to his door. The Spirit tells Peter to go with these men, doubting nothing because I have sent them.

Peter, with some brothers from Joppa, go with the Gentile men to Cornelius' house. Cornelius falls at Peter's feet to worship Peter. Peter says, no, I am a man as you are. Then Peter says this in v. 28.

28 And he said to them, You understand that it is unlawful for a man who is a Jew to join himself to or come near one of another race; yet God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

It turns out that Cornelius had gathered his friends and relatives to hear Peter speak a word to them. Thus, the fellowship among the believers was flowing regardless of one being a Jew or a Gentile.

Key verses in Acts 10

14 But Peter said, By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything common and unclean.

15 And a voice came to him again a second time: The things that God has cleansed, do not make common.

16 And this occurred three times; and immediately the vessel was taken up into heaven.

17 Now as Peter was utterly perplexed in himself as to what the vision which he had seen might be, behold, the men who were sent by Cornelius, having made diligent inquiry for Simon's house, stood at the gate.

18 And they called out and inquired whether Simon, who is surnamed Peter, was lodging there.

19 And while Peter was pondering over the vision, the Spirit said to him, Behold, there are three men seeking you.

20 But rise up, go down and go with them, doubting nothing, because I have sent them.


When Christ was crucified on the cross, the Jew/Gentile ordinance along with all of the ordinances were abolished, creating the two (Jews and Gentiles) into one new man, which is the body of Christ, the church.

Ephesians 2:15-18

15 Abolishing in His flesh the law of the commandments in ordinances, that He might create the two in Himself into one new man, so making peace,

16 And might reconcile both in one Body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity by it.

17 And coming, He announced peace as the gospel to you who were far off, and peace to those who were near,

18 For through Him we both have access in one Spirit unto the Father.
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