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Venting

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Had a chat with a friend today, she is due with her 2nd any minute now. We got to talking about our bed time routines and I was horrified to learn that from day one she does CIO! I didn't say anything except that we co sleep and she laughed and said that is cause I have always been a bit of a hippie and will pay for it it time. Luckily we live on separate continents, but really? CIO from day one???

For the record, ds1 wanted his own bed by a year old and I had to adjust to not having his warm little body snuggled next to me all night, meanwhile he was thrilled to have his own bed!
post #2 of 26
It's F-ing "BabyWise". I have a friend I posted earlier about confronting on this. Google "BabyWise" and be horrified...

It breaks my heart. To think that that little newborn, who can't even see a foot away and has NO object permanance, thinks that his/her momma has abandoned them. Forever.
post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Ooh I bought a copy of that and it disturbed me so much I burned it rather than let it get into someone else's hands... We needed kindling anyway.
post #4 of 26
FROM DAY ONE?!?!?!?!

:Puke and then
post #5 of 26
"well babywise said it doesn't harm your baby"

Didn't Hitler and Nepoleon do some writing?

Just sayin.....
post #6 of 26
Thread Starter 
Yup from day one... She was released from the hosp hours after giving birth.
post #7 of 26
When my baby cries for more than a few minutes it's heartbreaking even if one of us is trying to console him. I can't imagine just letting him cry unattended at such an early age. He's trying to tell us something! Whether it's "I'm hungry" or "I'm too warm/cold" or "please change me!" or "I'm sick of lying here on my back please pick me up" or "Hey someone please play with me" or "I'm really tired but I'm all worked up someone please gently rock me to sleep" there's a message there. And just like they said in the books I've been reading you learn to start deciphering those messages over time, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amazon description for "on becoming baby wise"
It teaches parents how to lovingly guide their baby's day rather than be guided or enslaved to the infant's unknown needs.
There will come a time when we will guide our child's day to be sure, but at this early age I think I'd rather be taught how to know my infant's "unknown" needs. He's been a pretty good teacher himself so far. Also, notice the word is "needs" that's not "wants" ... when it's crying over wants then maybe I'll be more inclined to let him cry. But we're still dealing with *needs* ...
post #8 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaesun's Dad View Post
When my baby cries for more than a few minutes it's heartbreaking even if one of us is trying to console him. I can't imagine just letting him cry unattended at such an early age.
...
Yeah, it's hard to imagine.

It's so primal to feel pain when baby cries. When I get upset from my crying baby, it makes me feel closer to humanity because I know mothers have felt the same forever. It's comforting. As part of a western culture, we try too hard to disconnect from people, our instincts, and our babies.

Also, babies are people who have emotional needs. NEEDS.

Ok, I'm done ranting. This was just too upsetting.
post #9 of 26

My heart aches for the babies like hers. How can a mother lack empathy?
post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 
The problem is she thinks she is doing the right thing! She thinks I am raising my kids improperly because we co-sleep. I ended up emailing her the results of the harvard study and she has yet to respond.
post #11 of 26
Good luck. I was de-friended from facebook today for confronting a friend in what my husband I thought was a loving way. Every time I dare to read about this method, I start shaking, I'm so emotionally distraught by it.

And we wonder why the American psyche is wrought with people who feel "disconnected" from those around them. Hold your babies close and let them know you love them.
post #12 of 26
Hi there! Just a friendly reminder that namecalling, no matter how deserved, is against MDC's User Agreement.

We know it can be tough to avoid sometimes when talking about topics we feel passionately about (Babywise, etc.), but we really appreciate your cooperation and understanding in this.
post #13 of 26
I was babysitting a 1yo for a woman who had had stomach surgery and needed a hand around the house while I was 8 months pregnant. While I was there she told me just to put him in his crib for bedtime/naptime and leave him there until he cried to sleep, whether or not he looked sleepy, or even went to sleep. I was supposed to put him in the crib at a certain time and pick him up at a certain time. It was during this time that I started to notice how much like a little cage a crib looks... The worst part was she had a video baby monitor so we could see him crying his poor little heart out. He's one of the big reasons I don't think sleep training really works, or if it does, it's borderline abuse/neglect, because any child/baby will eventually grow used to abuse/neglect and stop complaining about it. She also gave my babywise to read during his naps, which I politely did because I had no real good excuse to not. She also gave me a book called "secrets of the babywhisperer" or something liek that which is also terrible.
post #14 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunningMomTegan View Post
It breaks my heart. To think that that little newborn, who can't even see a foot away and has NO object permanance, thinks that his/her momma has abandoned them. Forever.
How do we know for sure that this is what the baby is thinking?
post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post
How do we know for sure that this is what the baby is thinking?

Because the instincts of a baby THAT SMALL are of their needs that only their mother can fullfill. How does a baby THAT SMALL understand that they need to just go to sleep NOW, and later, mommy will be there? THEY DONT!
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post
How do we know for sure that this is what the baby is thinking?
Is it even worth the chance, that baby might be thinking/feeling that way?

Maybe we can't know for sure. But we can look at the baby-- is there any other age of a person's life when we look at them screaming and crying in tones that sounds desperate and despairing, and refuse to believe that they might actually BE desperate and despairing? If my mother, or my husband, or my older child, was crying in desperation and despair, and I patted them gently and walked out of the room, leaving them in the dark, I'd be called heartless and cruel. What makes a baby any different?

I say if it barks and has a tail and likes Alpo, then it's pretty safe to assume it's a dog. So don't take the risk.
post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Well said Llyra.
post #18 of 26
I think I read somewhere that the AAP is against that book too. Pointing that out to thease mainstream parents really makes them doublethink it if the American Acadamy of Pediatrics says NO!!!

HEre it is--------

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/c...stract/14/4/21
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaesun's Dad View Post
when it's crying over wants then maybe I'll be more inclined to let him cry. But we're still dealing with *needs* ...
Ahhh, but wants are just needs in tangible clothing. I'm not picking on you, I know you're not pro-CIO! But many Babywise followers might say: "I know what my baby needs better than her, she just THINKS she needs XYZ," Or, "I meet her needs, The rest is just manipulative, and I don't want to spoil her."

It's always about a need deep down, and the sooner we learn to decipher each others' needs, including our own, the sooner we can solve problems and stop tears. If all you do is ignore the tears, you just say to someone A)"My needs are more valid than your needs." or B) "You do not know what you need, I know better than you what you need." Either message is detrimental to the process of trust building and breaks down communication between both parties.

This is not to say people, even small children, don't sometimes need to cry to make sense of their own needs, to get through the wants to the needs, but I have yet to see anyone who is better off left to cry alone. As a grown up I'd always rather be crying in someone's arms than on my own, and unfortunately that might mean someone (my mom, my friend, my partner) will have to forego their need for sleep or peace and quiet...That's what loving people do. However, we are sadly conditioned to deal, suck it up, manage on our own in western society, and I feel that is one of the things that contributes to the high levels of dysfunctionality we see lately, and why we are encouraged to push our children away. If we learn to determine the needs from their wants, we will be forced to recognize our needs through our wants, and that can be a terrifying experience, especially when we realize that most of our needs are not being met by the things we think WE want.

I have studied quite a lot about non-violent communication, but this is a topic that makes me violently communcative. I have a hard time keeping my cool. At the end of the day, your child's needs are more important and it is YOUR job as a parent to give voice to those needs. Mirrormonkey, it is sadly your friend who will pay in the end, not you. Sounds like your ds is doing great so far.
post #20 of 26
I lost my best friend over the same thing. I sent her article after article (we were 3000 mi apart) and then found out she puts her babies to sleep in a crib in another room and let them cry to sleep, then they would wake up alone and cry in morn till one of the parents felt like going to get them. Breaks my heart too. I wrote her that I cried for her son and we haven't spoken since. If I had been a stronger person, perhaps I could have tried to rub some AP on her somehow, but it just made me feel sick.
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