Meeting this morning.

[StephandOwen]

So, we had a meeting this morning at ds's school about his behavior issues. It went mostly well, and we have a few ideas that we (they) will be implementing. We had 2 people from central office come to the meeting too after I had a meeting with them last week.

One other concern that had come up (that we've had all year) is the playground. DS is a runner and the playground is not fenced in. The very first day of school in August Owen ran from the playground (and the school is right at the intersection of 2 really busy roads, which is right where he was running to). His teacher didn't feel comfortable with Owen being on the big playground (and we agreed) so for the rest of the fall he went to the small (preschool) playground that is fenced in. The teacher would allow 2 other children to go with him and made it into a big deal (a special playground). Now that the weather is nice again, they are using this playground with ds again, with the teacher saying she doesn't feel comfortable with him on the big (unfenced) playground.

However, ds is getting too big for this playground. What about in first grade? What's he going to do... continue to go to the preschool playground? 2nd grade? When does it end? Everyone is in agreement that this is the last year he will be able to use the preschool playground without risking the other children in his class picking up on this and starting with the name calling. We talked about this and nobody had any ideas for what is going to happen and how to transition him to the big playground. We talked to the principal (who was in the meeting) and she said she would make some phone calls about fencing in the big playground, but I have very little hope that it will actually happen and have a feeling it was just something she agreed to in order to get the meeting to end Has anybody been in this situation? What are our options?

[ernalala]

Do you have any idea WHY your son is running from things/places?
Does he need to RUN? Does he need the sensation of a particular movement? Does he not like the playground equipment? Does he not like the playground being full? Does he run from the noise of a bunch of playing children? Does he find running towards traffic exciting (possibly since it creates reaction)? Does he have a clue of his running of or not at all? Does he feel excluded? etc.

Maybe questioning the reason for running of may help you in finding a solution to this playground issue, other than maybe fencing which the school may just have offererd as an 'empty promise'.

And is there, besides this playground itself, any other equipment or activity that might interest him during breaks, so that he would less likely run of (or maybe biking around it, playing sports)?

[CarrieMF]

His Aide should be going outside with him & shadowing him. Then the Aide would take his alotted break AFTER recess is over.

It's what I do when I'm at my morning job. We had another kid in that school whose Aide also shadowed her guy at recess. I sub in another school & if I'm subbing for particular Aides that's what I do.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by ernalala

Do you have any idea WHY your son is running from things/places?
Does he need to RUN? Does he need the sensation of a particular movement? Does he not like the playground equipment? Does he not like the playground being full? Does he run from the noise of a bunch of playing children? Does he find running towards traffic exciting (possibly since it creates reaction)? Does he have a clue of his running of or not at all? Does he feel excluded? etc.

Short answer... no idea. He runs from us too, so it's not something that's new. We've had alarms on our doors since he was 1 because he would just randomly escape in the middle of the night (or afternoon or whenever). He LOVES the playground, that's definitely not the issue. He needs to run... he's full of energy and loves to play outside He has no concept of the safety aspect. He would run into the middle of traffic without a second thought. He can recite back to me "we do not go in the road. Cars could hit me and make me very hurt".... but it doesn't stop him. On the first day of school I do know that it was time to line up to go inside and he just bolted off towards the road. I assume he just didn't want to go inside

It's not just the playground he runs from. He's run from the teacher/aide probably about a dozen times this school year. Mostly they've been inside the building (running either just randomly away or running towards a door to the outside of the building), though once it was while walking between a portable and the main building.

And is there, besides this playground itself, any other equipment or activity that might interest him during breaks, so that he would less likely run of (or maybe biking around it, playing sports)?

Not that I know of. They do have some bikes that they let him ride (in the fenced in preschool playground), but I don't think they let him ride them outside of the fenced in playground.

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

His Aide should be going outside with him & shadowing him. Then the Aide would take his alotted break AFTER recess is over.

It's what I do when I'm at my morning job. We had another kid in that school whose Aide also shadowed her guy at recess. I sub in another school & if I'm subbing for particular Aides that's what I do.

His aide does go outside with him, every time. The teachers concern is that the play area is actually quite big (with a really big play structure and some swings to the sides plus a grassy area) and they can't keep an eye on him the whole time. Her concern is that he may go on the play structure and jump/slide down the other side where the aide isn't standing and take off running (one direction would lead him to the 2 main roads, another direction would lead him to a small neighborhood, another direction is fenced and the last direction is a small parking lot with a small wooded area on the other side of that). The aide takes his break during their "special" classes (gym, art, science, etc) when ds is contained in a classroom (with another aide with him).

Also, the original special ed teacher (who had a baby a few months ago so is coming back from maternity leave soon) said that she would work with taking him outside to play on the big playground (with the help of the aide, I assume). We'll have to see what she thinks when she gets back. Right now the special ed teacher he has is older and in no shape to chase after Owen (his regular teacher is older and has a bad back so can't chase and the assistant teacher has medical issues that wouldn't allow her to chase him either so the aide is the only one who would be able to chase).

[KatWrangler]

OT -

Steph I have to say I really admire you. You are such a strong Mama and I really admire that.

Not that we don't all have our breaking points. I know I do.

[Momily]

Do you ever take him to an unfenced playground, if so what steps do you take that make you feel safe with him there?

[CarrieMF]

His aide does go outside with him, every time. The teachers concern is that the play area is actually quite big (with a really big play structure and some swings to the sides plus a grassy area) and they can't keep an eye on him the whole time. Her concern is that he may go on the play structure and jump/slide down the other side where the aide isn't standing and take off running (one direction would lead him to the 2 main roads, another direction would lead him to a small neighborhood, another direction is fenced and the last direction is a small parking lot with a small wooded area on the other side of that). The aide takes his break during their "special" classes (gym, art, science, etc) when ds is contained in a classroom (with another aide with him).

If the aide is with him & still gets away the aide is NOT shadowing him. If Owen goes on the play equipment the Aide goes on it with him. Another option is to have 1-2 students(same grade or older) be Owen Helpers. They go on the play equipment with him & the Aide is on the ground. If the Aide is on the ground & following where Owen is going he should be at or near the bottom of any slide when he goes down. Having students be helpers works a little easier as they can follow Owen down the slide & be right behind him or 1 can go ahead of Owen & be there when he gets down.

What consequences do they have in place for Owen if he does run off?

Are they working with Owen on stopping if he does run(ie, stop signs on the doors)

[mrsfru]

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable w/ANY child being on a playground that is that close to a fairly busy intersection without a fence. WTH isn't it fenced??? I would push ALL the parents to make a stand on this. Unless it's like 4 football fields away from the road, it should be fenced. I just don't understand why an elementary school playground wouldn't be fenced on the sides that open onto main roads. It's a safety issue for all the kids.

GL!

mrsfru

[bdavis337]

None of the grade schools in my district (10 of them) are fully fenced. 1 is fenced but it has obvious access points. Supervision is a major concern of mine as well.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by Momily

Do you ever take him to an unfenced playground, if so what steps do you take that make you feel safe with him there?

Yes, we do. His favorite playground is one that isn't fenced in. And dp and/or I are with him the entire time. We don't always follow him on the equipment (sometimes I do because he wants me to ) but we follow him through the outside of the equipment.

Originally Posted by CarrieMF

If the aide is with him & still gets away the aide is NOT shadowing him. If Owen goes on the play equipment the Aide goes on it with him. Another option is to have 1-2 students(same grade or older) be Owen Helpers. They go on the play equipment with him & the Aide is on the ground. If the Aide is on the ground & following where Owen is going he should be at or near the bottom of any slide when he goes down. Having students be helpers works a little easier as they can follow Owen down the slide & be right behind him or 1 can go ahead of Owen & be there when he gets down.

What consequences do they have in place for Owen if he does run off?

Are they working with Owen on stopping if he does run(ie, stop signs on the doors)

First bolded part- I agree. But the aide is a bigger man (not obese, but muscular and slightly overweight.... he actually said he lost a lot of weight over the summer because all the school told him was that his kid come fall was a runner so he lost weight in anticipation of running... lol) and I don't think he can easily fit down the slides and such, not to mention there are a LOT of kids on the playground at the same time. With the kid shadows.... that's a good idea and I'll mention it to them The problem I see is that you can't force a kid to do that, ya know? If he gets on that equipment and decided he finds another friend he wants to play with and Owen slips away, you can't exactly blame that on the other kid for... well.... being a kid.

As for consequences... that I'm not sure. I know he doesn't get all his stamps for the day (meaning he gets computer/movies taken away at home).

Second bolded part.... I believe they have signs on the door to the classroom and I believe they also should have a social story they let him read (that I wrote). Whether they actually give it to him to read (or have it where he can get it)... I don't know.

Originally Posted by mrsfru

Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable w/ANY child being on a playground that is that close to a fairly busy intersection without a fence. WTH isn't it fenced??? I would push ALL the parents to make a stand on this. Unless it's like 4 football fields away from the road, it should be fenced. I just don't understand why an elementary school playground wouldn't be fenced on the sides that open onto main roads. It's a safety issue for all the kids.

GL!

mrsfru

I agree, it's a safety issue for all the kids and I can't imagine Owen's the first kid to run (I know there are other special needs kids in the school!). I wish I had pictures to explain how it's set up.... but there's the 2 main roads that cross right in front of the school. At that same intersection is the driveway for the school. The driveway goes right in front of the school and splits off. One section goes across the front of the school, around the left side and back of the building and back up to the road. The other section goes down the right side of the school and backs up to the portable buildings (this is used as a car pick-up/drop-off lane). Behind the portables is the main big playground. To the other side of the pick-up/drop-off lane in the grassy area is the fenced in playground. So if he ran from the big playground it would be very easy to run right by the portable buildings and down the driveway to the road. There is nothing in the way to stop a child from doing that.

I plan on talking to more people higher up about this issue, but I know they're going to say that it's not in the budget to fence it. It's all about the money

[StephandOwen]

And just as a side note... none of the schools have a fenced in yard either. They are building a new school, that (provided we don't move) we will be in the district for. So we will have the option, in fall 2011, to move him to the new school or keep him at this school. One big point is that the new school is NOT on a main road (it's on a kinda busy road, but not nearly as busy as the 2 roads his current school is on).

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

OT -

Steph I have to say I really admire you. You are such a strong Mama and I really admire that.

Not that we don't all have our breaking points. I know I do.

Awww.... thank you

And, yes, we definitely all have our breaking points

[bdavis337]

For my child - FOR MY CHILD (noting that this isn't viable for everyone else, but for mine it is) the consequence for leaving the playground without permission would simply be a loss of playground for the rest of the day. I have no idea how to implement this, but it would work for him quickly. My son is a wanderer - he slips off quietly and without making any noise. He doesn't run but he slowly slips away. So I know how a child can just disappear from an are. This may not work for your son, but it would for mine.

It might also be an option to have a totally separate reward system set up for playground behavior. 5 minutes without running off, stamp. Next 5, stamp. Next 5, stamp and so on until the end of the period and if he fills the boxes - big reward payoff. If 5 minutes is too long, start out with 2 or 3 minutes.

The aid should be on him like glue but he shouldn't have to be on the equipment in the tangle of kids - that might make it even harder for him to keep track of him if he jumps down and runs off quickly.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by bdavis337

For my child - FOR MY CHILD (noting that this isn't viable for everyone else, but for mine it is) the consequence for leaving the playground without permission would simply be a loss of playground for the rest of the day. I have no idea how to implement this, but it would work for him quickly. My son is a wanderer - he slips off quietly and without making any noise. He doesn't run but he slowly slips away. So I know how a child can just disappear from an are. This may not work for your son, but it would for mine.

It might also be an option to have a totally separate reward system set up for playground behavior. 5 minutes without running off, stamp. Next 5, stamp. Next 5, stamp and so on until the end of the period and if he fills the boxes - big reward payoff. If 5 minutes is too long, start out with 2 or 3 minutes.

The aid should be on him like glue but he shouldn't have to be on the equipment in the tangle of kids - that might make it even harder for him to keep track of him if he jumps down and runs off quickly.

But what if it's at the end of recess when he runs off? Then the consequence of no more playground has no effect on him since he was already going in anyway. I can see how that might work if he were to run off during recess... maybe.

I'll have to talk to them about a seperate stamp system for recess

[bdavis337]

It would also help them keep track of him b/c they'd have to keep him nearby to present the stamps.

I don't know about how to deal with running off at the end of the period. I'd say he just loses the rest of whatever time is left. I don't know, really. WE're not thre yet ourselves.

[kanga2roo]

What about....?
-Earning something for staying in the correct area- frequent stamps would be a good idea if he responds well to that already....but also making sure the activity immediately following recess is awesome for him. If he stays/listens then he does or gets whatever right when he comes in. Something special just for the after recess transition time - just for a few minutes to help transition and have a focus.
Would he respond well to a "big kid" job? One of my students got to deliver something to the office for me everyday after recess so she would come in. It was most often a big important looking manila envelope ( with a joke/note inside for the secretary) but she made a big deal about her bringing it and gave her a thank you hug , or a tootsie roll, or a new pencil or something....
I'd much rather have a kid earn something than have something taken away. If he stays or comes in for 3 days then he gets an extra recess or whatever kind of break they could work into his day.
What is he wanting?

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by kanga2roo

What about....?
-Earning something for staying in the correct area- frequent stamps would be a good idea if he responds well to that already....but also making sure the activity immediately following recess is awesome for him. If he stays/listens then he does or gets whatever right when he comes in. Something special just for the after recess transition time - just for a few minutes to help transition and have a focus.
Would he respond well to a "big kid" job? One of my students got to deliver something to the office for me everyday after recess so she would come in. It was most often a big important looking manila envelope ( with a joke/note inside for the secretary) but she made a big deal about her bringing it and gave her a thank you hug , or a tootsie roll, or a new pencil or something....
I'd much rather have a kid earn something than have something taken away. If he stays or comes in for 3 days then he gets an extra recess or whatever kind of break they could work into his day.
What is he wanting?

LOL.... nothing. There's not much that motivates him, which makes it difficult to deal with rewards. There's not much of a motivator. Though the teacher did say this morning that yesterday she tried having Owen be her helper and he really enjoyed that (he was handing back papers to the other kids). So that will be a motivator... for a couple days. Nothing ever lasts longer than that. Reading/library time is another motivator since he loves reading, but it's not a big reward for him since he knows he'll come home and read all he wants to!

That is cute and a great idea that you had with that child! I bet that made her day

[Joy*4]

I agree with the postive behavior supports. If there is anything, anything that he likes, try that - praise, food, movie, whatever. I know that can be hard to find.

Another idea is something to practice that we used for our son. We had a behavioral consultant come to our home to work with us on some things, and running was one of them. That boy is fast!

Two of us (usually me and my husband) would play with him in the backyard, and then start the "game." I would call "Come here Jack" and the other adult would direct him to come to me. When he got to me, I would give him a reward like tickles or high praise - made a big deal about him coming to me. We would do this a couple of times while we were outside every day. It replaced any negative thought about him coming to adults when called, and since he usually ran to play a game, it replaced the old game of "chase." Now when we play chase we all know we are playing chase.

It did take some time - that was a few years ago, but now we don't have to stand right with him when we are outside.

[AllyRae]

In order to be a good reinforcer, it has to be something he *only* gets when the positive behavior occurs, so if reading is his reinforcer, you have to take it away at home unless he "earns" it by having the good behaviors. Since taking away reading is pretty much a bad thing to do to a child, can you work with the school to have him earn reading breaks. Break up every waking hour into 2-3 hour blocks or however you have to work it so that the hour ends right after each time he would have the chance to run. Then tell him that if he stays with his adult and does not run away during that block of time, he immediately gets rewarded with a 15 minute reading break. It doesn't matter where he is (home, school, or in the community), the rule would be the same. So, something like this:

No running from 7-10 AM, earns a 15 minute reading break until 10:15 AM
No running from 10 AM-1 PM, earns a 15 minute reading break until 1:15 PM
No running from 1 PM - 4 PM, earns a 15 minute reading break until 4:15 PM
No running from 4:00 PM - 7:00 PM, earns a 15 minute reading break until 7:15 PM

That way, he still gets his reading time in the evenings (since the chances of him running off from 4-7 PM while he's at home are pretty slim), but he knows that he earned that reading time because he did not run, and in turn that reinforces no running away at school too because he knows he only gets reading breaks if he does not run away.

Of if you didn't want to do the reading thing, is there something else he gets at home and at school that you can cut him off from completely and use as a reinforcer? You might have to change it up every week (a hersheys kiss this week, a sticker next week, etc.) Or can he earn a token for each hour of the day he's awake that he does not run off, and then once he earns a certain number of tokens, he can trade them in for a new book. Once he's good at earning the smaller number of tokens maybe he can save his tokens to trade in for a special ride or souvenire at his Disney trip?

You'd have to keep the intervals really small for him at first...an hour or two hour block. But the trick is to be consistent at home AND at school--that way he has a chance to be reinforced at times where the behavior isn't a problem and he starts to feel like he can do it. Then once he's gotten the connection between no running and getting his prize/token, you can extend the number of hours so he's being reinforced during school hours or at the end of the day...

[HarperRose]

You've got some cool ideas here. I hope something works. I get so frustrated reading about the issues you've had with this school! UGH!!

Bottom line, though, they need to fence it in. They're idiots for not doing it sooner.

My kids went to a school (when we lived in TX) that was almost at the corner of 2 major roads (there was a large church/school on the corner, my kids school was the next building) and less than half a mile from an interstate. In a city of over 1 million people, you can imagine the traffic in this area. Grocery store, restaurants, neighborhoods, businesses, schools, church, gas stations, etc. There wasn't any "Sunday Drive" kind of traffic here. Not even on Sunday.

The school playground was entirely fenced, the high school next door was fenced along the side but it was set way back from the road, the church was fenced.

Not rocket science, folks! Safety of the children is #1 priority here.

[CarrieMF]

But the aide is a bigger man (not obese, but muscular and slightly overweight.... he actually said he lost a lot of weight over the summer because all the school told him was that his kid come fall was a runner so he lost weight in anticipation of running... lol) and I don't think he can easily fit down the slides and such, not to mention there are a LOT of kids on the playground at the same time. With the kid shadows.... that's a good idea and I'll mention it to them The problem I see is that you can't force a kid to do that, ya know? If he gets on that equipment and decided he finds another friend he wants to play with and Owen slips away, you can't exactly blame that on the other kid for... well.... being a kid.

oh I won't go down the slides, I just know where the fastest way for ME to get off is.lol this is also why I was all for having helpers for the guy I'm with. THe kids can go up with him & I follow under/around.

The kid shadows - you need responsible kids who are willing. THis may mean Grade 6 kids, or there may be kids in his own class who are responsible enough. With my kid they were going to have Grade 6 kids only out with him, but it's too much & I veto'd that one. We have kids in our class who signed up to help. There are 2 that are great, but sometimes TOO great. They're quite(too much??) pushy with him. It works for them & I don't have to worry. THere are a couple of other kids who are less forceful(ie, no matter how much I tell them to hold his wrists they'll hold his hand and he gets out or they just let go & let him be). Those ones I follow closer & most of the time they're only with him during gym class so it isn't a problem. When the pushier girls are with him I know I can stand at the top of the hill & they can go quite far away & will make sure he comes back whether he wants to or not. the responsible kids know that during certain recesses they have a job to do & can't go off & play with their friends otherwise they lose that special job.

As for consequences... that I'm not sure. I know he doesn't get all his stamps for the day (meaning he gets computer/movies taken away at home).

you need to find out. Consequences at home don't really do alot if there are no consequences right then & there. The school needs to make sure he knows they have consequences for him too otherwise they're depending on you to deal with it & they'll continue to have issues. In fact that may be WHY they keep calling you. IF there are no consequences at school, get together with them(teacher & aide, the rest don't need to be there) and come up with consequences that will work.

But what if it's at the end of recess when he runs off? Then the consequence of no more playground has no effect on him since he was already going in anyway. I can see how that might work if he were to run off during recess... maybe

I agree with losing recess. If it's at the end of recess then it's the next recess he loses. If he won't stay at the bigger kid playground then a consequence could be having to move back to the preschool playground for the next recess. He doesn't have to lose recess as much as playing outside. If it's accessable he could still do movement stuff inside the gym or just walk the halls. He could also just walk the playground instead of being able to go ON the equipment.

The aid should be on him like glue but he shouldn't have to be on the equipment in the tangle of kids - that might make it even harder for him to keep track of him if he jumps down and runs off quickly.

If the kid can jump off the edge so can the Aide. The Aide's job is also to teach Owen to get off the equipment safely(since Owen doesn't always pay attention to safety). If the Aide is shadowing on the equipment properly he can stop Owen from just jumping off.

There's not much that motivates him, which makes it difficult to deal with rewards

it feels pretty impossible. The kid I work with had 3 reinforcers - food, computer & puzzles. He won't do his puzzles, he gets tired of the computer after 10 minutes & unless it's candy/sweets food is no longer a motivator or it only works once. Yet he'll eat anything he thinks is food so we have to be FAST with him.