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new goat is a very nervous milker - help?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
OK, here's the quick backstory. DH and I were planning to get 2 dairy goats this Spring, maybe April or May. Neither of us have ever raised a goat or milked any animal before. So through a series of events, we end up with Penny, an alpine/nubian goat already in milk, about 5 days ago. Her sister is also coming to live here by the end of this week. So right now we have Penny alone (which I'm sure is a stressor for her), in a new home, in milk for the first time, just separated from her kid an hour before she came here (they sold the kid to someone else before we picked her up), and with very little milking experience before us. They mostly just let her kid nurse.

And then you have us, with NO experience with goat care, let alone milking.

On the plus side, Penny's mother was a great milker...very calm, a gallon a day give or take. And Penny is very friendly, just nervous. I can understand her nervousness.

And on the plus side, I am very committed to learning how to care for her and milk her. In general, I learn best by experience rather than reading about it in a book, so I expected to have a steep learning curve myself when we brought home our goats all along.

Now to the details: she's been making leaps and bounds in her milk stand behavior. Yesterday, she *ate some grain!!!* for the first time while I milked her. Before that, she was so nervous, she wouldn't even eat.

But her supply is going fast because she gets so upset and wiggly when I try to empty her. We had to use a goat hobble for her kicking during milking (plus I'm pregnant, so the goat hobble gives me the peace of mind I need to control her well), and she has a head stanchion with her feed bowl. She can't do any real damage to herself or me while we're milking, she just won't. stand. still. after a certain point to let me empty her. We get the milk out to the point she's no longer engorged, and then that's it. So obviously, her supply is waning quickly.

Also, it takes a full two hours at each milking. Can someone reassure me this is within the range of normal for us first-timers and will improve? Milking goes like this: massage udder, teat fills, I get 3-4 good squeezes, no more. Back to massage udder a bit, teat fills, 3-4 squeezes. This goes on and on. Every noise makes her freeze up. Every change in my position.

I don't know if goats are like us, but my letdown response is not there when I'm scared or feel unsafe. Could it be the same for her?

Things are definitely improving. I'm really getting to know the feel and anatomy of udders and teats and how you can literally feel the milk come into the teat, feel where the milkbag ends, etc. I guess I should if I'm working there for 2 hours at a time every day!

But I'm afraid that she will dry up before we can get the hang of things. Any suggestions and tips appreciated, especially about getting her completely emptied, unless they have to do with things we can't change now. Could we have done things differently before bringing her home? Surely. But that doesn't help the current situation, so I won't even let myself dwell on that until I work us through whatever needs to be done now.

Please help us! Thanks!!!
post #2 of 13
We had milk goats when I was a kid (haha! a pun!), so I can help a little.

I used to help milk the goats, so I have some experience.

There are several things that could be going wrong, so let's see if we can address some of them.

1 - milking is taking too long, and she's tired of her titties getting yanked on.
2 - something is off in your milking technique
3 - she is scared/missing her kid and has not bonded to you.
4 - there is something scary in front of her milking stand
5 - your hands are rough
6 - her nipples are chapped
7 - she's just never been milked before

1 - Two hours is too long. 30 minutes, yes. Of course, it takes practice. It should take maybe 3-4 seconds (real seconds, not fast ones) per nipple, per empty. If you are at home all day, I would suggest milking her more often, for no more than 30 minutes at a time. Actually, if you can do it several times a day, I'd say for no longer than 10 minutes.

2 - When a baby suckles, it will butt the udders very often while sucking. You should only have to full-on massage the udder once - right at the beginning. After than, a little bump and rub will do it. So, as you empty one nipple, gently lift the other hand, with the nipple still in it, and bump/rub the udder once before you prepare for the next pull. So, empty, relax grip, lift hand and nipple, gently bump into and rub udder, lower nipple, empty, repeat.

Also, make sure your first grip is sealing the milk into the nipple. I'm sure you are squeezing first with your thumb and pointer finger, then wrapping your middle finger, then ring finger then pinky, yes?

3 - Try singing a song to your goat. Something repetitive, like a lullaby. Twinkle Twinkle Little Star has several verses that most people have never heard. The tune never changes, and there are no range changes, so nothing to startle your girl. You can even try resting your forehead on her side. It might give her a more bonded feeling. You can also try spending some time with her, maybe put her on a leash and take turns following each other around. It might make her feel more bonded as well.

4 - Look in front of your milk stand. Is there anything shiny? Anything that can flap around in the breeze? Any thing other than her field or maybe the side of the barn? Things that aren't scary to us can terrify an animal. But, you said she is ok for a while, so this probably isn't the problem. However, it won't hurt to just look around the next time you are out there.

5 - Are your hands rough? Are your nails trimmed and filed smooth? I used to run my fingers (tops bottoms and sides) on my belly before I milked the goats. If there was something sharp, it's easy to file down with a nail file (even skin can be smoothed with a nail file). If it's sharp to your belly, you can bet it will be sharp to her udders.

6 - Are her udders chapped? Do you have bag balm? You can also dip your fingers in the milk after you have milked her and massage some milk into her udders. If there is severe chapping, get the bag balm.

7 - Finally (for this list anyway, there are other things it could be), she is a first time milker. It's new for her, and it's new for you. That is the worse possible combination for a milker and milkee. So, be patient with yourself and with her. You'll get it, and so will she!
post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
dirtroadmama, you are awesome! Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. Today was much better. It took about 45 minutes to (almost) empty both sides. I think her trust in me was huge, as was the time it was taking. I think you're right. She was getting tired of being yanked on by the end!

I love your tip about testing my hands on my belly first. And everything else you shared. My technique is getting better, but I can still only do one side at a time. I liked reading your both sides technique.

I'm feeling so much better after our last milking. She started eating the whole time she's being milked. And she went outside on her own to browse for food. She hadn't even done that yet! She practically stopped eating altogether the first four days she was here.

I'm surprised how much I like and worry over this goat.
post #4 of 13
Hi, reading with much interest here. We'll be milking for the first time in the Spring.

I have been watching videos on youtube. There are lots about milking goats. Check some out! Good luck!
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Those youtube videos really helped me learn how to do it, chicky2. One I liked in particular was: Milking Ms Ruby. Then there was a blog post I found that was super helpful, if you Google "goat milking tips goldenbrook farm." She had pictures of everything...the setup, the equipment & the process.

I'd love to hear of anything you found particularly helpful.

(I don't know if I'm allowed to put links in my messages on MDC which is why I gave you the google terms instead. )
post #6 of 13
Hey, congrats on a 45 minute milking! That's awesome! YAY!!!

The easiest way to milk two handed is to tell yourself that you can do it. Honestly, if you tell yourself it's too hard, it will be. Try talking yourself into it for a couple of days, and then just go for it. You could even try miming the action (either while you are milking her or just by yourself if you feel silly having an audience). You would be shocked at how many "difficult" things you can do if you don't know they are hard. And, milking isn't that hard, now is it? Look at you, you went from 2 HOURS to 45 minutes in one day! Huzzah!

You can do it!
post #7 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by alivia View Post
Those youtube videos really helped me learn how to do it, chicky2. One I liked in particular was: Milking Ms Ruby. Then there was a blog post I found that was super helpful, if you Google "goat milking tips goldenbrook farm." She had pictures of everything...the setup, the equipment & the process.

I'd love to hear of anything you found particularly helpful.

(I don't know if I'm allowed to put links in my messages on MDC which is why I gave you the google terms instead. )
Yeah, the milking ms ruby was one of my favs, but I couldn't remember the name when I posted. Glad it helped!
post #8 of 13
Is she a first freshener? When we got our first goats they were also already in milk and just the stress of travel had them acting up when trying to be milked. And my husband was an experienced milker. It just takes time. With ours it took a few weeks before they were completely relaxed and would just stand there. It will get better, I promise.

I agree with dirt road mamas suggestions. Also if it's cold, rub your hands together before you grab the teats. Just getting in a routine will help them relax.
post #9 of 13
Hey! Just checking in to see if you've tried two-handed milking?

How is your milking coming otherwise?
post #10 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Hey! Just checking in to see if you've tried two-handed milking?

How is your milking coming otherwise?
Milking isn't coming along in general. I made the decision about a week after my initial post to dry her off and wait until I can breed her again. It was a hard decision for me - I don't like to fail. I wrote about it on our blog:

http://heirloomhomestead.blogspot.co...egoat-won.html

Sigh.

Now I'm focusing on learning how to care for goats and building our bond with her, and hoping to try again by the end of this year.
post #11 of 13
Alivia, I read your blog post. Better luck with the next freshening, mama. I hope she quickly gains whatever condition she needs, and that she is soon ready for breeding, and that she settles well. In the meantime, lots of brushing, treats, whispering in her ears and loving treatment. I am milking first fresheners, and I have to say, the first took only a couple days to become a real pro. The second is going to take a few weeks of work, no doubt, and I doubt she'll be the wonder my first girl is. We're only a part of the equation.

And take good care of yourself, too. We need to find that place where milking time is special for both of us. You'll get there.
post #12 of 13
Sorry it didn't go so well. It is a learned art and takes time. When I first started hand milking I had a nervous goat that kicked alot too. I hobbled her up and that helped alot but my technique was what I needed to work on. Well I finally figured out that I just had to envision the teat as a frosting tube. I know it sounds silly but if you are squeezing the frosting out of a tube you need to grasp the top well so the bottom stays full and then I would squeeze in order from my middle finger to my pinky and it really worked well. She was never one that I could milk two handed she was just to nervous so I just did one side at a time and it went alright. Anyway I think it is great that you are taking the time to bond with her. Goats are very social creatures and being a prey animal really need to know they can trust you. They are also some of the sweetest and most loving animals I have ever known. They love the attention and it can be a very special relationship. Good luck with whatever the future holds for you and your new goat. I hope things work out better for you next time.
post #13 of 13
Awww, nuts! I can't access blogs from here, but I'm getting the idea from the other posts.

I'm sorry it didn't go well. I hope if works next time!
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