Bringing out the best in a controlling child - Page 2

[laohaire]

Just as a small update, I've been more patient with DD and I think it's helped. At the very least I don't feel like a lousy mama anyway.

DH is very patient but lately she's worn his patience thin. (He's the primary caregiver and sometimes he has to deal with this ALL DAY LONG). But I think his patience has revived somewhat too.

I don't even know what I'm doing, just putting more effort into working it out. At least I'm not modelling impatience right back to her, but calmness and interest in her.

[jlwagner]

Originally Posted by Violet2

OMG this is my DD too. The thing is she does it more with me and DH than other people so I have hope it's not a trait, but rather a developmental phase.

There are some good suggestions here, I didn't get to read everything b/c DD is dressing me up with scarves at the moment.

Anyway, per a pp RE: the ice cream I do the 'wow, ice cream sounds so good. I am so excited and happy. Aren't you? Boy I wish we didn't have to wait in line for it. It would be nice to have it right now. If you could make your own ice cream flavor what would it be?' kind of thing too and it does help enormously b/c (I think) it really acknowledges what they are feeling and engages them positively.

ETA: Okay DD is off doing something else. I want to tell you a story about an instance of DD being controlling that really floored me. I told her we were going to go to ride the train, an activity she enjoys and loves. When it came time to leave she refused to get dressed or cooperate. So I got frustrated and gave up. We're not going I told her.

She instantly became an angel and said "I want to get dressed. Let's go mommy." She even brought the clothes over.

It became clear to me that she wanted to go only on her terms and only if it was her decision.

This momma don't play that.

I refused and explained I meant what I said. She pitched a huge fit. I just told her 'this is what happens when you don't cooperate. If you are going to fight me, I'm not going to play. We'll just stay home all the time.' She's been slightly better since that one incident in that if she starts trying to control whether we leave the house, I just suggest we don't go at all which, remembering what happened last time, seems to help her cooperate.

It just floored me how sophisticated her control was. To fight me just on the principal of control so she could be the one determining how and when we leave the house.

Yesterday she tried to be the same stunt but this time she was saying with a HUGE grin on her face "I not cupopitating (cooperating) mommy. I giving you hard time." (Can you guess what I say to her a lot? )

V

The controlling leaving the house is a huge one for us. Though, unfortunately, he often truly does not want to leave. So I'm at a complete loss as to what to do. It is such a huge frustration for me to have my 4yo controlling whether or not we leave the house. I rarely give in (I'm stubborn too ) but that usually means a tantrum of near violent proportions... screaming, kicking, hitting, crying, etc. I'd love to read how other mamas do and would handle this.

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

In the McD's situation, I would have said (ala Faber & Mazlish) "Wow, it sounds like you really want your ice cream. It's hard to wait, huh?" Usually that takes care of it. Remember that she's 4 and discovering the power of words. Subtly and patience are not part of the repertoire of a 4 year old.

If my kids continued (and sometimes they do), then I move on to describe the impact of their behavior "It's rude to yell for your ice cream like that. I don't like that. Please be more polite. Your ice cream is coming as fast as it can." If it still continued, then I'm down to "Enough. We heard you."

I want to respond to this part. I offered my daughter tons and tons of empathy in the years 3-5 a la Faber and Mazlish. I don't know if I did it wrong or what but it just seems to have FED her sense of entitlement that she right to get so upset and SEE how hard it is for her and whiny, whiny, whiny!

She is 7 now and we are much, much stricter about what is acceptable and it's getting a little better. I just don't have any more empathy for a 7 yo who acts like a 2 yo. I get notes from the teacher every week or so about her controlling behavior.

I also really want to thank the OP for her honest, candid post.

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

I want to respond to this part. I offered my daughter tons and tons of empathy in the years 3-5 a la Faber and Mazlish. I don't know if I did it wrong or what but it just seems to have FED her sense of entitlement that she right to get so upset and SEE how hard it is for her and whiny, whiny, whiny!

I think whether Faber & Mazlish works depends a lot of on the child. It works pretty well for our daughter. It only worked so-so for our son.

The benefit (for me) in using it is that it makes me stop and think 'what's her emotion over this? why is she so upset?' That helps me deal with her emotions on a more even plane.

And I said that it doesn't always work. That's why we move on to other kinds of talk:

Originally Posted by LynnS6

In the McD's situation, I would have said (ala Faber & Mazlish) "Wow, it sounds like you really want your ice cream. It's hard to wait, huh?" Usually that takes care of it. <snip>

If my kids continued (and sometimes they do), then I move on to describe the impact of their behavior "It's rude to yell for your ice cream like that. I don't like that. Please be more polite. Your ice cream is coming as fast as it can." If it still continued, then I'm down to "Enough. We heard you."

[Violet2]

Originally Posted by jlwagner

The controlling leaving the house is a huge one for us. Though, unfortunately, he often truly does not want to leave. So I'm at a complete loss as to what to do. It is such a huge frustration for me to have my 4yo controlling whether or not we leave the house. I rarely give in (I'm stubborn too ) but that usually means a tantrum of near violent proportions... screaming, kicking, hitting, crying, etc. I'd love to read how other mamas do and would handle this.

I don't know how to handle it. I canceled all activities that we pay for/have to be on time for because I just refuse to fight with her about leaving the house. If she pitches a fit, we don't go anywhere b/c I hate having to force her into clothes or into her car seat.

I hope she gets past this b/c I just signed her up for preschool starting in the Fall.

Right now, she usually wants to go do what we're going to do so she'll relent once I tell her 'then we're not going anywhere'.

V

V

[peaceful_mama]

Hmm I have one too and if mine held onto the carseat screaming...well. I wouldn't haul her butt out of it, I'd say "all right, if you don't want to get out, we'll go home."

Which would be met with a fit at home most likely, but I'm just not into playing it out in public.

I admit, I've been lax in the past on some public-behavior things and now I'm raising the bar.

I took my 5 year old home the other day instead of to the Y because we had to go to the grocery store first to get a couple things and he RAN from me at the checkout, RAN out two sets of doors, RAN across the parking lot to our van, with me screaming his name and "STOP COME BACK!" behind him. That is absolutely NOT what I can have when I'm taking two kids downtown and we have to cross one of the busiest intersections to get to the Y. So we went home.

And I had to drag him out of the car and hold him in the house to make sure he wouldn't run out the door again. I let him sit in the van awhile thinking he'd come in eventually, realizing I was *seriously* not taking him anywhere.

nope.

But all in all I'd rather have the scene at home. This typically works with mine, they remember when they don't get to go someplace fun.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Just as a small update, I've been more patient with DD and I think it's helped. At the very least I don't feel like a lousy mama anyway.

DH is very patient but lately she's worn his patience thin. (He's the primary caregiver and sometimes he has to deal with this ALL DAY LONG). But I think his patience has revived somewhat too.

I don't even know what I'm doing, just putting more effort into working it out. At least I'm not modelling impatience right back to her, but calmness and interest in her.

I think the modeling desired behavior back is really effective for teaching them what expected behavior is. It sounds like you're making progress. My DD is 4 now and often just says "I'm going to my room" when she's angry. Then when she comes out she usually apologizes and wants to talk about what was frustrating her. The problem with teaching by modeling is it can take awhile before you see the behavior you're modeling, but it really does work in the long run.

[angelandmisha]

I agree that modelling is one of the best ways to teach about desired behavior(really anything). Honestly, the examples you gave don't strike me as controlling so much. Just sort of typical for young ones. Sometimes I get a lot of resistance to whatever it is I'm trying to get us to do
and many times it's because I'm trying to go too fast without giving ds any idea what to expect. I've noticed he likes to be warned about upcoming things. So maybe with your swim class example, on the way to the class I might remind her of the routine and what's going to happen when you get there. Might look like this:
You: when we get to the Y, Daddy will drop us off, then he'll park and come in.
Her: no!! Want daddy to come in too!!
You: oh, you'd like to go in at the sane time as daddy?
Her: yes
(at this point you know what she wants and can decide if that will work or not)if you decide that won't work, then
You: it would be fun if we could all go in together, but we're running late so daddy's going to drop us off and come in after he parks the car. Please get ready for that.

For us that is usually enough to diffuse any resistance, but if she's really insistent, what would happen if you agreed to do it that way- all going in together? Seems like if that would satisfy her, it might be better than harshly taking her out of the carseat and her having a fit in public. Not judging you, just trying to help.

I try to say yes as often as I can and give ds as much control over how he does things as possible. I also try not to get into power struggles with him, he doesn't have anything else to do, but I do! YKWIM?

Anyway, you said your dd's behavior brings up issues with your mom, have you read any of Naomi Aldort? I really liked her book, Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves. Very thought provoking.

And about the wanting help to find the doll's shoes, honestly, I wouldn't make her say the whole sentence when you knew exactly what she wanted. I'd just say, oh you'd like for me to help you find your doll's shoes? I'd be happy to. Let's look for them. Where do you think they might be?

That may seem to some like spoiling or giving in, but it has really worked well for me. It's not what I would have thought I'd be doing before I had my own child, mind you! I thought it was best to be super strict, but it feels like I'm doing the right thing by respecting him as a person and trying to be as generous with him as possible. He's learning how to treat me and others in every interaction I have with him. Again, to me, it goes back to modelling. I also found Unconditional Parenting to be a real thought/approach changer.

Good luck!

[MtBikeLover]

I came here this morning with the sole purpose of finding the name of a book that I couldn't remember and this thread was very timely for what I am going through.

My 5yo DD and I butt heads so much. She is very headstrong and will not stop until she gets her way or until I end up losing my cool and yelling at her to stop. She doesn't throw tantrums or anything, but she will argue her point forever. And she will say things just to annoy people (me and her brother). Yesterday, she asked if we could go to Target and I said no because there wasn't time (we had planned to go earlier, but they wouldn't listen at the grocery store so I ended up just taking them home. Since I couldn't get the groceries I needed, I refused to take them to Target to get what they wanted.). We were in the car headed to the grocery store to try again and DD kept saying "please, please, please, please, please" about 100 times. I finally pulled the car over and just waited until she was done, but even that took another 10 minutes.

Originally Posted by laohaire

One thing that I have really kept close to my heart is MIL telling us that she regretted coming down hard on SIL as a kid. She was spirited and MIL did whatever discipline (nothing violent) she felt it warranted, but later regretted it. Feels that SIL is now not as confident as she was meant to be, for example. So I remember and appreciate this when I consider coming down hard on DD.

This is a great reminder for me. I love the fact that DD is so headstrong because I know it will take her really far in life. I don't want to be the cause of her losing any of that.

But I do need to find a way to survive the next 13 years. Thanks for the person that recommended "Raising your Spirited Child". That was the book I was looking for. I am also going to check out "Kids, parents, and power struggles".