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Denied VBA2C: what now?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
My local hospital informed me yesterday that their recommendation for women with 2 prior cesareans and no prior vaginal delivery is to have a planned repeat cesarean.

Can anyone direct me to where I go for information and support for a VBA2C? I am starting to second guess my decision to try a vba2c. I am feeling pretty lost.

Thanks for your help.
post #2 of 16
Well anytime you go against the grain it's easy to feel insecure and question your desires. And really that's ok because you can really research and decide for sure. There's a great sticky of VBAC resources at the top of the VBAC forum.

Have you looked around for VBAC friendly providers? Have you posted in your tribal area for recommendations? Have you considered a MW assisted HB?

This is where I would start. GL!
post #3 of 16
Is that a "recommendation" or a "denial?"

I would ask them about the precise policy.
post #4 of 16
I'm not great with facts, but the other ladies suggestions are great.

One thing I did want to say though is that your initial desire alone shows that you have some education as to the benefits of a VBAC...so, I'd keep educating yourself and see for yourself what is really best for you and your babe! Then, if you really want that VBAC, start the search for someone who believes in it as much as you do! You deserve to have what you want, not what a doctor says you should want. Obviously there are many many women in this country that have successful VBA2C, so the fact that a hospital in your area will not allow them does not mean it's a bad or wrong decision to want one for yourself!

Good luck!
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thank you for your responses. I am not sure if the hospital has a formal ban or if this is just a suggestion. I will look into midwives, although I have to admit I am nervous about trying a vba2c at home. I am looking around MDc and finding lots of inspiration. I think, unfortunately that my biggest hurdle will be dealing with my family. I do not make a habit of lying, but i may just do that. Also, I am thinking about just laboring at home and then showing up at the hospital. My concern is being treated badly upon arrival...

I am just working out the frustration of having to fight so hard for this.

Anyway, thanks for your support. It means a lot to me.
post #6 of 16
where are you located? have you contacted your local ICAN chapter?
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cian'sMama View Post
Also, I am thinking about just laboring at home and then showing up at the hospital. My concern is being treated badly upon arrival...
The thing about doing this is you will probably have to schedule a c/s (doctors always schedule well ahead of time), so if you go into labor "late" (which is usually over 38-39 weeks for a repeat scheduled c/s), your doctor is going to ask why you didn't show up for your c/s, then possibly try to "dump" you because you did not cooporate(although he/she can't til they find you someone else).

I am in the same position as you, as are many women. There are no local hospitals that offer vba2c, and I bake my babies over 41 weeks by history. So while I would do what you suggested in a heartbeat, it would probably be a good 4 weeks from when my c/s is scheduled to when I actually go into labor. So you have to worry about your and the baby's health during that time as well as when you get to the hospital (if you wait til you're in labor), how far you are dilated, etc. They will TRY their bottoms off to convince you that you need a c/s, and while you can refuse, I don't know what would then happen.

So, as you can see, I've been weighing all of the options as well, and am so stressed by the whole ordeal. I'm considering having most of my prenatal care with a dr, then transferring to a homebirth midwife later in the pregnancy. This was a suggestion of another member here, which is a valid one. The best option I've heard so far, although I am still concerned about the safety (baby's safety) of a HB.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cian'sMama View Post
My local hospital informed me yesterday that their recommendation for women with 2 prior cesareans and no prior vaginal delivery is to have a planned repeat cesarean.

Can anyone direct me to where I go for information and support for a VBA2C? I am starting to second guess my decision to try a vba2c. I am feeling pretty lost.

Thanks for your help.
I am sorry, it really isn't in the hospital's best interest to allow VBA2C(from thier point of view)...so homebirth would be your only option if you want to avoid unnecessary surgery.

But that isn't a bad thing! See if you have a local Certified Professional Midwife nearby. www.narm.org ..they often do VBACs, and most have done VBA2C...some have done more...I would ask around...
post #9 of 16
Your best bet is to connect with ICAN. I do not know where you are located, so I cannot look in the database for you. But on ICAN they have a list of hospitals all across the US and their VBAC policy.

Also, you can join ICAN's message boards, and I am sure there is someone close to where you live that can assist you in find a hospital or provider who will support VBA2C.
post #10 of 16
A cesarean section is a procedure that you have the right to refuse as a consumer. It is illegal for a hospital to perform one without your consent. Don't give them consent and you won't have one. I would look specifically for a care provider who is supportive of VBA2C. If you can't find one, look for a MW to be with you at home while you labor at home, and then go to hospital at "last minute". This to me, is more risky than having the baby at home. No one, IMO, is safer delivering a baby in a parking lot than at home.

The risks of uterine rupture (the main scare) is less than 1% and that's even with 2 prior cs, as long as they are low transverse incisions. Keep in mind, these studies include induction and augmentation of sorts, something that raises the risk of uterine rupture, and something no HB MW does, so you can guess your rate is lower.

Especially if you live near a hospital, I'd say HB is your safer option. That is just me, and what I would do. ICAN has tons of info on VBAC. Maybe just go to one meeting to check it out and ask some questions. That's what I would encourage you to do.

Happy Birthing!
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks again for all of the supportive replies. I agree from my research that homebirth looks to be the most supportive environment for a vbac. The first midwife I was in touch with informed me that the state regs here in Vermont do not allow a midwife to attend a vba2c. So...what am I looking for? A MW who will go against this? How do we find this person? I am guessing that I just keep at it until I get someone to come on board?

On another note, all of the vbac news in the media this week was inspiring...it is about time!
post #12 of 16
They will always tell you that they do not recommend a vba2c, because that's the ACOG guidelines and the standard of care. That does *not* necessarily mean you can't have one at that hospital. What you need to find out is if vbamc is *banned* ie, does their malpractice insurance cover it. The OB that did my vba2c said the same thing, but I followed it up with "does that mean I'm not allowed to vbac here?" and she said no, of course not, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. I'm going to her for my second vba2c and when I contacted her she said the same thing again; I have to recommend that you have a repeat c/s, but I'd be happy to take you on again if you want another vbac. And she said my odds of having another vba2c are really good since I've already had one

That said, my local small town hospital does NOT do vbamc because their insurance will not cover it. So I have to go 45 minutes to a larger hospital who's insurance will cover them.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cian'sMama View Post
Thanks again for all of the supportive replies. I agree from my research that homebirth looks to be the most supportive environment for a vbac. The first midwife I was in touch with informed me that the state regs here in Vermont do not allow a midwife to attend a vba2c. So...what am I looking for? A MW who will go against this? How do we find this person? I am guessing that I just keep at it until I get someone to come on board?
On another note, all of the vbac news in the media this week was inspiring...it is about time!
Either a CPM, ( that's what the link for North American Registry of Midwives was for) or a Direct Entry midwife(who might be underground, but lots of experience)...check with the local "alternative community"...you might check at the healthfood store, Chiropractor, Yoga instructor, people like that, for recommendations. I know they are in VT, I have seen posts by people who have homebirthed with them! Depending on where in VT you live, you might find a mw in one of the bordering states, like NY, or MA...
post #14 of 16
I also say make sure to connect with your local ICAN chapter!!! They may have some ideas of midwives who will attend a homebirth after 2 c-sections! Don't give up hope!
post #15 of 16
After my 2 c-sections, my local hospital also told me I was "not a candidate for a trial of labor" based on ACOG guidelines. I did the research, concluded that a 3rd c-section was far more dangerous than a VBA2C, so I refused to schedule a c-section. I wrote a letter outlining my case, and ultimately, they agreed to allow me a trial of labor.
As it turned out, I ultimately decided to go for a homebirth, I felt my chances of success were greater. I had a wonderful homebirth VBA2C two and a half years ago. I just had another great VBAC six weeks ago at home.

There was a very recent study out showing that VBAC after three c-sections is no riskier than after one c-section. In addition to finding that recent info, here is a note I wrote to another mom awhile ago that may have some useful information.

******
please don't just let them tell you you are required to have a c-section. Consumers must demand change:

I assume you are receiving care from an OB currently. Unfortunately, he can drop you from care if you are less than 36 weeks if you don't follow his plan. But when the time comes to schedule, you always have the right to refuse.

In the meantime - does your local hospital "ban" VBA2C? If so, start with them - write a letter to the Chief of Staff, Chief Compliance Officer, Risk Manager, Head OB, and head nurse for labor and delivery. Let them know you have done the research and found that the risks of another c-section outweigh the risks of a VBA2C so you will not have a scheduled repeat c-section. Ask them to meet with you and set up a special informed consent form for you to sign so that everyone understands that you do not agree to a repeat c-section.

Even if you don't plan to go to the hospital, you never know what may happen, it doesn't hurt to at least get the hospital thinking about what to do when VBAC moms refuse c-sections. I had a friend trying for a VBAC who shattered her arm late in pregnancy and had to have surgery, she was a little concerned they'd just do a section at the same time - so again, you never know what may happen.

Suggested information to include:

I
am planning a vaginal birth at (hospital) sometime in (month). I have had two previous c-sections, and
have decided, after reviewing all of the medical literature, that a VBAC
birth is safer for me than scheduling a cesarean section. I have received
excellent prenatal care during my pregnancy, and I have been looking very
forward to my VBAC birth at (hospital). I sincerely hope that you will
support and assist me in having the best vaginal birth possible. I am
writing to request a meeting to review the following things:

1. I want to ensure that the VBAC policy at (hospital) is supportive
of VBAC births and the rights of pregnant women to make their own birth
choices.

2. I want to request that (hospital) draft a formal policy statement
that under no circumstances would staff pressure or coerce a woman to
undergo a cesarean if she has made an informed refusal for surgery - in
other words, it is important that there is no policy stating that women with
more than one c-section are "restricted" from having a vaginal birth.

3. I want my medical record at (hospital) to be clearly marked that
I have already made a fully informed choice to refuse a cesarean, and that I
do not intend to argue or fight with staff about a cesarean when I arrive in
labor to vaginally deliver my baby.

4. I want the enclosed medical literature showing that a VBAC birth
after multiple cesarean sections is safe (my risk of uterine rupture is less
than 1% if I am not induced), and that my risks from a third cesarean are
high, making a cesarean risky and dangerous for me to be placed in my chart
so that all hospital personnel assisting with my VBAC know that I have been
fully informed of my risks. I am truly scared of the risks of a third
cesarean, my risk of death is much higher with a cesarean than with a
vaginal birth, and I cannot undertake this risk for me or for my other
children unless some emergency warrants it (cord prolapsed, placental
abruption, etc.). It is my hope that if the staff understands my concerns,
everyone will work with me to ensure I have the best vaginal birth possible.

I thank you very much for your time in reviewing the enclosed literature and
for considering my concerns.
I hope that once we meet, I can rest assured that policies are in place
that support a woman's right to VBAC, and that no woman will have to face
pressure to have a cesarean after they have made an informed refusal for
surgery. After knowing that (hospital) will be supportive of my VBAC, I
will be able to just focus on having a healthy pregnancy and preparing for
my upcoming vaginal birth at (hospital). I appreciate you
making time in your busy schedule to discuss my concerns, and working with
me to ensure I have the best birth possible at (hospital).

Sincerely,



Here is the suggested literature to include:

http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patient...press/?ID=2835

http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...tract/108/1/21
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much for your reply TCA2008. Your suggestions are very helpful!
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