princess, dress-up, hoarding...please help

[naismama]

My 4.5 yo dd has become obsessed with "pretty," and it's getting out of hand, I think. For various reasons, I've always been anti-princess, but I figured I would never make a big deal out of it with dd, lest it should become "the forbidden fruit" and make her want it even more. It started with fairy wings, then tinkerbell, then my little pony, then some kind of sparkly Dora. Most of her exposure to these things has been through going to the bookstore and seeing it. She also likes to do dressup at a friend's house--this friend has lots of tutus and wings and some Barbies. I've allowed her to choose a couple of girly movies for our weekly family movie night. I've bought her a few princess coloring books and girly things sometimes when she has asked for them. Here are some of the things that concern me:

1. every time we go somewhere where there is girly stuff she begs, cries, and often tantrums for it
2. she is refusing to wear most of the clothes she has. Everyday we battle because she wants to wear something "cute." To her that equals pink, frilly, or sparkly
3. She has started collecting and hoarding things around the house and making "decorations." For a week, her bathroom sink was covered with a random collection of artificial flowers, mardi gras beads, dolls, old pink baby bibs, etc. She did not want to use the bathroom or let her little brother near it. It was solely for decoration and to be "pretty." The decorations make their way around the house, and the latest thing is to have it on her bed. She sleeps curled at the foot of her own bed like a cat so as not to disturb her decorations. She sometimes will wake up in the middle of the night to rearrange something that has fallen out place.
4. She is getting kind of bratty. I feel that her behavior changes when she plays dress up. She talks back more and doesn't want to be her usual wild, funny self because she is trying to be princessy and behave accordingly.
5. I worry about her self-image. She always wants to go out in dressy or dress-up clothes and waits for people to comment on how she looks. Even more concerning---I don't want her to think she is not wonderful and beautiful as she is. Her best friend, who is chinese, believes that blonde hair, white skin, and blue eyes are what makes "pretty" and what makes a princess(Neither my daughter nor anyone in our house looks like that) . I have already had to intervene a couple of times when this friend tried to school my daughter on what crayons to use for "skin color" when coloring princesses. I feel that my daughter might be starting to absorb some of this mentality, which I feel is detrimental to her self-esteem.

I've tried to accept that this is just a phase, and relax about it, but I feel that it really has gotten out of hand--the tantrums, the battles, the hoarding. I feel as though I've failed her somehow...that something is missing from her life and she's compensating by being obsessed with...things.
DD is funny, very bright (likely gifted), and super athletic. She even recently asked to leave her beloved gymnastics in favor of ballet class (so she can wear a skirt). She is a little bit of an odd duck, though, due to a vision issue and needing to develop some better social skills (she often crosses physical boundaries and lets other kids kind of run over her...I think because she wants their friendship so much. I've thought about gathering up all the princess stuff in the middle of the night and getting rid of it, but that seems extreme. Is it? Is there a better way to respect her interests and how she wants to play but keep the obsession from getting too out of hand? Anyone BTDT?

[rzberrymom]

I imagine there are wildly different takes on this issue, but in our house we just get rid of anything we're not comfortable with--we decided we're just not going down that road of princesses, high heels, Disney, tiaras, etc. We explain it to DD and she is starting to get it. Sometimes I have to be the bad guy (we've had the tantrums in stores too), but that's parenting.

You're the parent--you can control what is in your home and where the money goes.

The bathroom decorations sound REALLY creative though!

[One_Girl]

My dd was obsessed with princess stuff for three years. She has just started to favor pants over dresses this last year. I think you may like the Fancy Nancy series and giving her that role model as an outlet to base her desire to dress nicely on. There are also many great books in the children's section of the library that discuss diversity. There are also many different versions of Cinderella and other princess stories in the library that portray princess from many different backgrounds. You may also like the book Princess Grace, it is about an African American girl who's class researches all different kinds of princesses.

It does seem extreme to get rid of all of the fancy stuff, and I don't think doing that is going to teach her anything about diversity. I think you should stop making the fancy stuff tantalizing by not engaging in a battle everyday about wearing frilly clothes. If she needs to put pants under the clothes to stay warm then focus your attention no that rather than stopping the frills. It sounds like you are in a little bit of a power struggle with her over dressing in fancy clothing and that may be where some of the resistant attitude comes from. I also think that it would be very disrespectful to take something that someone really adores and throw it away for arbitrary reasons. If you are going to take the fancy clothing away, then I think you need to discuss it with her and be ready to give really good reasons that both you and she can understand. It may even make her more resistant to your point of view.

As for number one on your list, it may help if you make a rule about when she can expect to get something new whether it is a princess outfit or a toy truck and then stick by it.

[K1329]

Dd, now 6.5, definitely went through the princess/frilly phase. There was even an entire summer where the shorts I bought went unworn and she would only wear dresses! She has now passed this phase and says to me "Mom, I don't like princesses or Dora anymore". I, too, disliked the princess thing and did my best to minimize it. I did counter it by reminding her, when appropriate, that the princess stories are fiction... bodies come in all shapes and colors... it's what's in our hearts that counts... and all those good things. Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think they are exploring something - whether it's their feminity?, female gender, or what, I don't know. But, I also saw it as something unavoidable - if we denied the princesses at home, she would have seen them at friend's homes, preschool, etc. anyway. I just tried to make them a very small part of our lives - even when they seemed like a large part of hers.

ETA: I read a great article about parents not pushing their preferences on their kids... kids might like the princesses and that's okay. It really influenced my thinking on this issue. It was linked in a post here. I'm going to look for the article and try to come back to post it.

[Cascadian]

This might be helpful - there was a thread on here a while ago about the demonizing of traits seen as 'ultra-female' (liking the sparkly, pink, glittery, make-uppy world) while lauding masculine traits in young girls (being a tomboy, liking 'boy toys', not wanting to wear dresses, etc.) It generated a good discussion about balance, and about celebrating these phases in a girl's life rather than trying to make it 'quietly disappear' based upon our adult disapproval and complex vested emotions.

From experience - I have 2 DDs - this is a phase...a fleeting phase. We were up to our ears in pink sparkly princessy tulle-y stuff. And now...it sits gathering dust, and they've moved on. It was almost like a developmental thing, and many girls their age in PS were going through it as well. And from families who weren't very much into that sort of thing at all.

It might help to lead some of the role play scenarios about the strengths involved in being a fairy princess that are non-gender stereotyped.

[Just1More]

I think I'd focus less on the princess stuff, and more on boundaries surrounding it.

I would remind my dd that she needs certain things to be healthy and happy. It's important to take good care of her body and mind. I would add soul, too.

Sleep is important, therefore, things may not be on the bed at bedtime. They may be put in this special box I have provided for her (or something of her choosing.)

Knowing who you are is important, even for 4 or 5yo, so from supper to bedtime, or breakfast to lunch, or from 2 to 4, or whatever, she can't have her princess stuff. She has to do something else. And no, she can't be one in her mind then either. Maybe she'd like to try being an astronaut. Remind her that it's your job to be sure that she learns about her world, and today you'd like to show her about x. She can be a princess again in her free time.

People are more important than things, so if things are interferring with the relationship with her brother, or the normal use of public domain (the bathroom!), then they will have to be put away. She could try again later in the day, or perhaps tomorrow or next week, provided that when you give back her things she can show you that she can keep them in the proper perspective.

Her mind is important, too. I ask dd lots of questions about what she likes and doesn't like. If she doesn't know which color m&m she likes best, we sample all of them so she can choose. I work really hard to help her discover who she is, and to declare her identity. I encourage you to do the same. I would also point out that the tantrums and such are causing her great emotional distress. That would disturb me, and I couldn't let her have ANY of it, if it was going to do that to her.

IME, the soul is the most important, but I understand many wouldn't agree. I would emphasize, again, that I cannot let things rule her, and I will have to take them away if she cannot control them.

I would do all this very gently, and in a series of very frank conversations. I wouldn't shame her, or make a huge deal out of things, just be very matter of fact.

[claras_mom]

At 4.5 yo, the "bratty" thing is not necessarily directly related to princess or ultra feminine stuff. It's just about being four and a half.

when dd1 makes a beautiful arrangement of whatever--ducks and quirkle pieces are two that come to mind--and I need to move it, we take a digital photo so that she can make it again if she has to. It takes the drama out of it, the "I'll never remember how I did it!" drama. Rarely does she rebuild.

For the decorative things, I wonder if you could help her create a special place to do that. Like a shallow box, covered with contact paper and set on end, sort of a diorama.

I wouldn't turn clothes into a power struggle, personally. Dd1 likes to wear dresses; I insist that she wear leggings underneath, to stay warm. She *adores* pretty shoes--has since she was a toddler--but has been made to understand that for preschool and biking and going to the park she has to wear "strong shoes." The dressier shoes have to meet my requirements: to be flat, to have a non-skid sole, and to be quality shoes bought on sale, so that they don't break the bank.

So far, we've found balance.

Is it possible that one of the reasons she seeks approval for how she looks from other people is that she's not getting that from you? I totally hear you on thinking that your daughter is completely amazing and beautiful as she is, and wanting her to get that too. But sometimes we need to hear the people we love most appreciate our efforts.

Re skin color - not quite the same thing, but dd's preschool class (Reggio) did a really cool project where they were doing self portraits using some styrofoam heads that had been donated. Each child mixed paint to match their skin tones; then had to think about what to use for hair that matched both the color and the texture of their own hair. I haven't read up on what's behind all the self-portraiture built into the curriculum, but it's pretty interesting. They're constantly drawing or painting themselves, sometimes working from a photo, sometimes not.

[naismama]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

My dd was obsessed with princess stuff for three years. She has just started to favor pants over dresses this last year. I think you may like the Fancy Nancy series and giving her that role model as an outlet to base her desire to dress nicely on. There are also many great books in the children's section of the library that discuss diversity. There are also many different versions of Cinderella and other princess stories in the library that portray princess from many different backgrounds. You may also like the book Princess Grace, it is about an African American girl who's class researches all different kinds of princesses.

Thanks. I had forgotten about Princess Grace! And I will look into Fancy Nancy...I know nothing about her.

Originally Posted by Cascadian

This might be helpful - there was a thread on here a while ago about the demonizing of traits seen as 'ultra-female' (liking the sparkly, pink, glittery, make-uppy world) while lauding masculine traits in young girls (being a tomboy, liking 'boy toys', not wanting to wear dresses, etc.) It generated a good discussion about balance, and about celebrating these phases in a girl's life rather than trying to make it 'quietly disappear' based upon our adult disapproval and complex vested emotions.

Thanks for this. But I really don't think this is quite the issue in our home. I am not crazy about a lot of the princess stuff, but I have not attempted to limit her pink/ frilly/ fairy/ princess play (although I do draw the line at most of the Disney princess stuff). My issue is not that she likes it. My issue is how it seems to transform her. Whether one wants to frame certain traits as masculine or feminine, the truth is that she is a sensitive, silly, athletic, independent, non-whiny child. During and after princess play she becomes whiny, bratty, sedentary, and disagreeable.

Originally Posted by Just1More

I think I'd focus less on the princess stuff, and more on boundaries surrounding it.

I would remind my dd that she needs certain things to be healthy and happy. It's important to take good care of her body and mind. I would add soul, too.

Sleep is important, therefore, things may not be on the bed at bedtime. They may be put in this special box I have provided for her (or something of her choosing.)

Knowing who you are is important, even for 4 or 5yo, so from supper to bedtime, or breakfast to lunch, or from 2 to 4, or whatever, she can't have her princess stuff. She has to do something else. And no, she can't be one in her mind then either. Maybe she'd like to try being an astronaut. Remind her that it's your job to be sure that she learns about her world, and today you'd like to show her about x. She can be a princess again in her free time.

People are more important than things, so if things are interferring with the relationship with her brother, or the normal use of public domain (the bathroom!), then they will have to be put away. She could try again later in the day, or perhaps tomorrow or next week, provided that when you give back her things she can show you that she can keep them in the proper perspective.

Her mind is important, too. I ask dd lots of questions about what she likes and doesn't like. If she doesn't know which color m&m she likes best, we sample all of them so she can choose. I work really hard to help her discover who she is, and to declare her identity. I encourage you to do the same. I would also point out that the tantrums and such are causing her great emotional distress. That would disturb me, and I couldn't let her have ANY of it, if it was going to do that to her.

IME, the soul is the most important, but I understand many wouldn't agree. I would emphasize, again, that I cannot let things rule her, and I will have to take them away if she cannot control them.

I would do all this very gently, and in a series of very frank conversations. I wouldn't shame her, or make a huge deal out of things, just be very matter of fact.

Thank you. You've given me some good ideas to implement. I have tried suggesting other things to dress up as, or suggest that her princesses go on adventures. She doesn't seem to have much imagination when it comes down to deciding what her princesses do. Mainly they just sit around and are pretty. I'm not sure whether it's her age or she's just not that imaginative. The other day I enlisted the help of her princess bear to save a knight who had been trapped in a cave by a witch. Her solution was for the princess to eat the witch. That's a start I guess. I would hope it's possible to be "girly" in that stereotypical way and still maintain the essence of herself, her sense of humor. It's the tantrums and helplessness and bratty behavior that turns me off to the princess and dress up.

[hipumpkins]

Sometimes on here a mom will post about her boy being into princessy stuff and everyone thinks "that's great" b/c he is being allowed to express his feminine side and break gender roles.
If girls express a feminine side though they are "too girly". I think this often sounds like, "It's better to do boy stuff"
If your DD is following her heart and really wants to wear these things and has not been over influenced by any media telling her this is how she should be b/c she is a girl, then let her play.
Let her be beautiful and fancy. Some girls are girly and we should respect that in our girls.
A great read about the media stuff is "Packaging girlhood" it also gives advice on how to deal with this stuff without cutting it out the kids' life .

[naismama]

Originally Posted by claras_mom

At 4.5 yo, the "bratty" thing is not necessarily directly related to princess or ultra feminine stuff. It's just about being four and a half.

when dd1 makes a beautiful arrangement of whatever--ducks and quirkle pieces are two that come to mind--and I need to move it, we take a digital photo so that she can make it again if she has to. It takes the drama out of it, the "I'll never remember how I did it!" drama. Rarely does she rebuild.

For the decorative things, I wonder if you could help her create a special place to do that. Like a shallow box, covered with contact paper and set on end, sort of a diorama.

I wouldn't turn clothes into a power struggle, personally. Dd1 likes to wear dresses; I insist that she wear leggings underneath, to stay warm. She *adores* pretty shoes--has since she was a toddler--but has been made to understand that for preschool and biking and going to the park she has to wear "strong shoes." The dressier shoes have to meet my requirements: to be flat, to have a non-skid sole, and to be quality shoes bought on sale, so that they don't break the bank.

So far, we've found balance.

Is it possible that one of the reasons she seeks approval for how she looks from other people is that she's not getting that from you? I totally hear you on thinking that your daughter is completely amazing and beautiful as she is, and wanting her to get that too. But sometimes we need to hear the people we love most appreciate our efforts.

Re skin color - not quite the same thing, but dd's preschool class (Reggio) did a really cool project where they were doing self portraits using some styrofoam heads that had been donated. Each child mixed paint to match their skin tones; then had to think about what to use for hair that matched both the color and the texture of their own hair. I haven't read up on what's behind all the self-portraiture built into the curriculum, but it's pretty interesting. They're constantly drawing or painting themselves, sometimes working from a photo, sometimes not.

Thank you! I love the digital picture idea, as well as the suggestion of making a special place for her decorations.

We tell my daughter all the time how beautiful she is--believe me, we always have. And I think she's always believed it. This is just so much about the clothes and what's "cute." I try not to make clothes a power struggle. She's gone plenty of places in tutus and tiaras. She just really lashes out when I try to set boundaries.

[Ellien C]

I have to agree that the lashing out on boundaries is more about the age than the princess stuff. I think kids are incredibly intuitive and she's sensed that this is the issue between you two. Trust me, if you were very concerned about what she ate, you'd be having this same issue about food. I've had the EXACT same thing surrounding the television and bed times.

My DD adores her frilly dress-up clothes and has for years. For us dolls and dress-up were never phase but part of her personality. (Then again, both or her parents are medieval re-enactors who NEVER got over playing dress-up and do so at least a couple of times a month. )

I find that we are able to incorporate a lot of positive princess messages into our play. We've read "Dealing with Dragons" by Patricia Wrede about a most unusual princess who goes to live with the dragons after refusing to marry some dumb prince. The dragon adores THIS princess because she's schooled in sword-craft, cooking, Latin and magic. The Latin is pretty important for cataloging dragon treasure, you know.

My daughter is also very much an extrovert with a strong sense of style and she just LOVES to walk down the street in her frilly princess dresses. There's a part of me that totally understands this. If I could get away with wearing a ball gown every day? I'm like who wouldn't want to do that? I get that it's obviously not everyone. But I think back to how I felt in my wedding dress on my wedding day and I can really capture the magic she wants to feel. I loved that dress. I felt great in it. I was the center of attention. Everyone told me how beautiful I looked. Who wouldn't want to do that every day of their life?

I will also say that none of these accoutrements have stood in the way of any of her playing. She still picks up worms and was apparently the only one in her pre-school to do so. Mine is the girl on the climbing wall with those horrible plastic dress-up shoes and an ankle length dress, climbing to the top. I'd prefer she'd do this barefoot but she's determined to do this in her princess shoes. (Oh Heck - I was on the all-female drill team in Army ROTC and can execute flawless facing movements in heels...).

Anyway, I think if you look into some alternate princess stories you might find some very positive role models: The barefoot princess books, Do Princesses Wear Hiking Boots, The paperbag princess, Princesses are NOT Quitters are some of the books on our shelves. If you do an Amazon.com search you'll find some recommendations and some lists. Then go the Library armed with your list and make Interlibrary Loan your friend.

[meemee]

you know something with parenting i think we worry more about our own hangups rather than our children's.

she is 4.5. being bratty is being 4.5. she is trying to figure out boundaries. she is trying to set hers.

this is the time for you to explore your boundaries too. are you giving her more power to make decisions. have you changed your parenting style to include a more 'grown up' child?

everything about children is exploring. for many of them to know who they are NOT, they need to do things. like get into princess stuff. why is sparkley and pink and all of that bad. hey i can relate to you because i hated that about dd's stage. however she added her own uniqueness to it too. she was super princess spidergirl. and that's what helped me. to see it for what it was.

the bratty is part growing up and wanting more control and partly intense imagination. absolutely you did good by asking the bear to help. i dont know how much you use silliness in your parenting but that's what saved my butt. she wouldnt take a request, but if i pantomimed it and begged her in a flamboyant manner she happily complied.

she is 4.5 and you worry about self image. this is your issue. i can relate though. however you also have to know they are figuring out who they are and they need to be given that freedom.

we have gone thru all my terrible phases, princess, hannah montana .... today at 7 all that is behind her and while she will always enjoy dressing up and being theatrical because that is her personality, she is nothing that i thought she would be if i gave in to her princess and hannah montana phase.

everytime dd is bratty i rejoice. i know its another milestone. she is growing up. and its time for me to explore myself and see if she needs more independence. she doesnt really need to listen to me. i shouldnt be telling her stuff. she should be doing it on her own. as we slowly struggled with that balance i saw we both needed changes. and omg it has been soooooo bittersweet. she is growing up. she no longer needs me to tell her to do her homework. i no longer have to make bfast for her.

4.5 also is a transitional age. it is an age of v. subtle but big time change. i have noticed it with my as well as my friends children. overnight suddenly they seem to mature and seem grown up at 4.5. i cant tell you what it is - but it is huge.

[naismama]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

I have to agree that the lashing out on boundaries is more about the age than the princess stuff. I think kids are incredibly intuitive and she's sensed that this is the issue between you two. Trust me, if you were very concerned about what she ate, you'd be having this same issue about food. I've had the EXACT same thing surrounding the television and bed times.

My DD adores her frilly dress-up clothes and has for years. For us dolls and dress-up were never phase but part of her personality. (Then again, both or her parents are medieval re-enactors who NEVER got over playing dress-up and do so at least a couple of times a month. )

I find that we are able to incorporate a lot of positive princess messages into our play. We've read "Dealing with Dragons" by Patricia Wrede about a most unusual princess who goes to live with the dragons after refusing to marry some dumb prince. The dragon adores THIS princess because she's schooled in sword-craft, cooking, Latin and magic. The Latin is pretty important for cataloging dragon treasure, you know.

My daughter is also very much an extrovert with a strong sense of style and she just LOVES to walk down the street in her frilly princess dresses. There's a part of me that totally understands this. If I could get away with wearing a ball gown every day? I'm like who wouldn't want to do that? I get that it's obviously not everyone. But I think back to how I felt in my wedding dress on my wedding day and I can really capture the magic she wants to feel. I loved that dress. I felt great in it. I was the center of attention. Everyone told me how beautiful I looked. Who wouldn't want to do that every day of their life?

I will also say that none of these accoutrements have stood in the way of any of her playing. She still picks up worms and was apparently the only one in her pre-school to do so. Mine is the girl on the climbing wall with those horrible plastic dress-up shoes and an ankle length dress, climbing to the top. I'd prefer she'd do this barefoot but she's determined to do this in her princess shoes. (Oh Heck - I was on the all-female drill team in Army ROTC and can execute flawless facing movements in heels...).

Anyway, I think if you look into some alternate princess stories you might find some very positive role models: The barefoot princess books, Do Princesses Wear Hiking Boots, The paperbag princess, Princesses are NOT Quitters are some of the books on our shelves. If you do an Amazon.com search you'll find some recommendations and some lists. Then go the Library armed with your list and make Interlibrary Loan your friend.

Actually, she is much more accepting of television and food boundaries!
BUT...you've given me something to think about...dd is an artsy type, (and a leo!) and I think some of this is a personality thing. I have to say, I hadn't thought of it that way...I thought of it as just another thing she is into, so thank you. Before a few months ago, she was never into the girly stuff. But she was into flowers, decorating, arts and crafts, critiquing my outfits, drawing for hours at a time (she's frighteningly good...probably all the practice) and critiquing my and my husband's artistic abilities--or lack thereof. So she really does have an artistic eye and cares a lot about how things look. I guess now, she's just applied it to her clothes. But unlike your daughter, this has stood in the way of her playing. All she wants to do is just sit and be pretty. But perhaps if I relax about it a little bit and let her go ahead and wear the stuff (almost) as much as she wants, she'd get tired of sitting and go back to being her regular rough, silly, very physical self?

And thanks for the book recs!!!

Originally Posted by meemee

you know something with parenting i think we worry more about our own hangups rather than our children's.

she is 4.5. being bratty is being 4.5. she is trying to figure out boundaries. she is trying to set hers.

this is the time for you to explore your boundaries too. are you giving her more power to make decisions. have you changed your parenting style to include a more 'grown up' child?

everything about children is exploring. for many of them to know who they are NOT, they need to do things. like get into princess stuff. why is sparkley and pink and all of that bad. hey i can relate to you because i hated that about dd's stage. however she added her own uniqueness to it too. she was super princess spidergirl. and that's what helped me. to see it for what it was.

the bratty is part growing up and wanting more control and partly intense imagination. absolutely you did good by asking the bear to help. i dont know how much you use silliness in your parenting but that's what saved my butt. she wouldnt take a request, but if i pantomimed it and begged her in a flamboyant manner she happily complied.

she is 4.5 and you worry about self image. this is your issue. i can relate though. however you also have to know they are figuring out who they are and they need to be given that freedom.

we have gone thru all my terrible phases, princess, hannah montana .... today at 7 all that is behind her and while she will always enjoy dressing up and being theatrical because that is her personality, she is nothing that i thought she would be if i gave in to her princess and hannah montana phase.

everytime dd is bratty i rejoice. i know its another milestone. she is growing up. and its time for me to explore myself and see if she needs more independence. she doesnt really need to listen to me. i shouldnt be telling her stuff. she should be doing it on her own. as we slowly struggled with that balance i saw we both needed changes. and omg it has been soooooo bittersweet. she is growing up. she no longer needs me to tell her to do her homework. i no longer have to make bfast for her.

4.5 also is a transitional age. it is an age of v. subtle but big time change. i have noticed it with my as well as my friends children. overnight suddenly they seem to mature and seem grown up at 4.5. i cant tell you what it is - but it is huge.

So I totally don't plan to go through "all the phases" (you're probably thinking good luck with that but I do hear you about the maturity thing. She has matured so, so much in the last three months, it's amazing. I have had so many reservations about kindergarten, not the least of which is her maturity level. But all of a sudden it's like, ok, maybe she is ready. She actually seems more baby and helpless with the princess play, so I can totally see that it might be part of a transition.

I also understand that to a large extent "this is [my] issue." I am not trying to be a smothering, overly-sheltering mother. I am just trying to do the best for my little girl--we are a minority around here, and she's already had to field comments and questions about her appearance. She also was born with strabismus (has had two surgeries to correct, but it is still noticeable). I just don't want her to grow up longing to be anything other than what she is. That's a hard road. I don't expect everyone on here to understand that part of it, but I do appreciate all the comments and suggestions. Thank you!

[claras_mom]

Your daughter sounds amazing.

Something you said made me think of this: I have a friend who at some point found an old dressmaker's dummy for her daughter. She was a little older, probably, but still. O. would make the most amazing "dresses" on it, out of all kinds of things - paper, fabric scraps, whatever. She eventually learned to sew and went on to study costuming in college.

That's just a random, off topic thought. From what you describe--I've reread the posts--I'm inclined to think that your dd's current "obsession" is a natural outgrowth of her other interests, but that maybe she does need an expanded idea of princesses.

"Free to be You and Me" is available on CD. It has a great princess story--Atalanta, the princess who wanted to travel and explore and would only marry someone who could beat her in a foot race. It's got a nice twist at the end.

ETA How much younger is your son? Because dd1 has these moments of totally baby-like behavior, which are pretty much directly tied to some sort of sibling rivalry thing. Dd1 turned 5 in late December; dd2 will be a year in April.

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by naismama

Actually, she is much more accepting of television and food boundaries!

But that is EXACTLY my point. YOUR issues aren't food or television, they are clothing. So your daughter is taking her stand around the princess clothing. MY issues aren't clothing of food, but television, so MY daughter is asserting herself around the television. We have that same "bratty behavior" surrounding the telly where all she wants to do is watch television and not go outside and not do anything creative. I think that kids just sense what it is that gets under our skin and that's where they make their stand.

I'm trying to do the same thing as you - not a make a big deal of it, not make it this huge forbidden fruit, but I see her behavior and attitude getting so much worse for watching TV. And I think a lot of it is the age and learning to become your own person by opposing some dearly held value of your mothers. It's a particularly difficult dance with mothers and daughters.

[Just1More]

Last night as I was posting, there was something I really wanted to add, and couldn't remember it. This morning I got it back and, after reading the other posts, still think it's applicable.

The underlying point of all my suggestions was to encourage her to see her behavior for what it is...absolutely all consuming. And to see that that very well could be a problem. And when you have a problem, it's a good thing to get it under control.

I work very hard with my children to use consequences that will benefit them for the rest of their lives. When we are at someone's house, and they are being too loud, I don't just get after them for being too loud. I explain that it isn't polite and that when I'm having a hard time being polite, I do x, y, or z to help myself. I don't want them to think that grown-ups are magically in control and make good decisions. First off, they aren't and they don't, always. Secondly, I want them to know my behavior is calculated as best I can. I make mistakes, too, but I want them to have the tools to say, I have a personality that makes me dive into things whole-heartedly. That's good because of these....reasons. But, I need to watch myself for these...reasons. Here are ways I can reign myself in and be sure I'm meeting needs, both of myself, my friends, my family, my job, etc.

Maybe your dd is just in a "phase", but maybe it's her inborn personality that got her to this level.

My goal would be, and what I was trying to say earlier and didn't quite, to teach her how to work with herself through all the passions that are her.

[Just1More]

Oh, I also wanted to say that I think perhaps what moves me in a different direction than a lot of AP parents, is that I really think kids "get" more than we give them credit for. I think, often times, saying things are "phases" is just a way of ignoring behavior until it melds into something else. I also don't care for trying to trick my child psychologically into seeing things my way. I don't want to be manipulated, and I won't do it to them. Granted, I will do a bit of playful parenting or whatever, and I do recognize that children pass through different developmental stages and try to meet them where they are.

That said, instead of trying to figure out a way to "get" my dd to do one thing or another, or to improve a situation around her, I bold faced discuss it with her.

One of the things we talk about quite frequently is the issue of mothers and daughters not getting along. We have our problems, and I point them out, point blank. I talk a lot about how lots of mamas and thier little girls don't get along very well, and that it is important to me to be friends with her. So, we are both constantly working on being a good friend to each other. I also talk a lot about what being a good friend is. I am hoping that a reminder of both of these conversations will carry us through the rougher spots, and the second conversation having the added benefit of helping her identify people who are truly her friends as she gets older.

I encourage you to straight up talk to your dd. Include all the bits about why she might be pushing back. Discuss how you don't want it to be that way, about how you should be able to have fun together and not fight about stuff. Talk to her about who you see that she is, and find out how she sees herself. Sure, she's little, and it's all going to change as she grows. The goal is not to settle in her mind all of those questions, but to open her mind to the idea of paying attention to herself, and becoming who she is to be deliberately, and not the slave of one pastime or another, or a friend, or TV or whatever.

[Peacemamalove]

First off. s I say "Go with the flow" maybe not worry so much about it and let your child explore it more maybe talk about fashion with her maybe she can design some outfits and draw her own cool creations.

Hoping it is just a phase and it passes soon!

[naismama]

Originally Posted by claras_mom

Your daughter sounds amazing.

Something you said made me think of this: I have a friend who at some point found an old dressmaker's dummy for her daughter. She was a little older, probably, but still. O. would make the most amazing "dresses" on it, out of all kinds of things - paper, fabric scraps, whatever. She eventually learned to sew and went on to study costuming in college.

That's just a random, off topic thought. From what you describe--I've reread the posts--I'm inclined to think that your dd's current "obsession" is a natural outgrowth of her other interests, but that maybe she does need an expanded idea of princesses.

"Free to be You and Me" is available on CD. It has a great princess story--Atalanta, the princess who wanted to travel and explore and would only marry someone who could beat her in a foot race. It's got a nice twist at the end.

ETA How much younger is your son? Because dd1 has these moments of totally baby-like behavior, which are pretty much directly tied to some sort of sibling rivalry thing. Dd1 turned 5 in late December; dd2 will be a year in April.

Thanks, Claras_mom. I think my dd is pretty amazing. I love the idea of the dressmaker's dummy--she goes crazy over mannequins in the department stores. Maybe I just need to work harder at finding more outlets for that artistic part of her.

Originally Posted by Just1More

Oh, I also wanted to say that I think perhaps what moves me in a different direction than a lot of AP parents, is that I really think kids "get" more than we give them credit for. I think, often times, saying things are "phases" is just a way of ignoring behavior until it melds into something else. I also don't care for trying to trick my child psychologically into seeing things my way. I don't want to be manipulated, and I won't do it to them. Granted, I will do a bit of playful parenting or whatever, and I do recognize that children pass through different developmental stages and try to meet them where they are.

That said, instead of trying to figure out a way to "get" my dd to do one thing or another, or to improve a situation around her, I bold faced discuss it with her.

One of the things we talk about quite frequently is the issue of mothers and daughters not getting along. We have our problems, and I point them out, point blank. I talk a lot about how lots of mamas and thier little girls don't get along very well, and that it is important to me to be friends with her. So, we are both constantly working on being a good friend to each other. I also talk a lot about what being a good friend is. I am hoping that a reminder of both of these conversations will carry us through the rougher spots, and the second conversation having the added benefit of helping her identify people who are truly her friends as she gets older.

I encourage you to straight up talk to your dd. Include all the bits about why she might be pushing back. Discuss how you don't want it to be that way, about how you should be able to have fun together and not fight about stuff. Talk to her about who you see that she is, and find out how she sees herself. Sure, she's little, and it's all going to change as she grows. The goal is not to settle in her mind all of those questions, but to open her mind to the idea of paying attention to herself, and becoming who she is to be deliberately, and not the slave of one pastime or another, or a friend, or TV or whatever.

I totally get what you are saying, and I appreciate your POV. I have tried having frank discussions with her about this, but they are unproductive because I do it when I am already upset or annoyed. DD actually responds really well with us talking through things. I will try again with her in the very near future when I am not cleaning up one of her creations or searching for her glasses under a pile of clothes.

[minkleaf]

I second the book suggestions, also "The Princess Knight" and "Jane and the Dragon". In general I've tried to offer alternative views of princesses where they go out and do stuff rather than just sit around and look pretty. When my DDs dress up, I compliment them on how "Fancy" they look, not beautiful. I actually rarely use beautiful but have been trying to more regarding their smiles, inner beauty, or general aliveness. In my book a kid whose been running around in the mud for an hour and is all tangled, smudged, hot and happy is beautiful.