What is gossip?

[azgirl]

I feel pretty petty writing this here because it may seem trivial. It is actually something I am wrestling with and I agonize over it a lot!

I know that gossip is "bad" I read a lot about personal growth and I have really internalized the idea that gossip is terrible and that I absolutely should not engage in it. I have A LOT to work on and I suspect that gossiping is one of my many faults. I also need to work on being gentler on myself, hence my agonizing over this. Here is the thing, I am not totally clear on what constitutes gossip and what is permissible in honest conversation. I would like to explore this. I am constantly tortured with guilt that I may have just gossiped...

How do you define gossip?

[Drummer's Wife]

I would say talking about someone else, behind their back, saying things you wouldn't say directly to them or want them to know you said to someone else?

[Freedom~Mama]

^I agree with that.

To the OP gossiping is something I struggle with too. Good for you for admitting that and wanting to work on it.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by Drummer's Wife

I would say talking about someone else, behind their back, saying things you wouldn't say directly to them or want them to know you said to someone else?

Hmmm, I do that all the time, and I don't think it's necessarily gossip. Well, if it is, I'm guilty. But I never do it salaciously or maliciously. If I'm having an issue with someone, I usually need to talk it out with someone else.

Also, there're a lot of things you can't say in front of some of my family members, especially my mom, without hurting their feelings-- very dysfunctional family. But I still talk about them to other people-- for instance, to explain very briefly why I don't have a relationship with my mom. Not often, but I do when it is relevant. I'm not going to go out of my way to protect them from the truth-- that would seem like I was ashamed of my family or my upbringing. Did I gossip just then by writing that?

ETA: I think I would've described gossip as when you are discussing something which is just none of your business or the business of the person you are speaking to-- or trying to pretend it is your business or make it your business. For instance, if I tell my grandma about something mean my brother said to me, that's not gossip, it's my business, but if I tell her about something he supposedly said to someone else, that might be gossip.

[MariaMadly]

We all talk about other people when they're not around. I think of gossip as including intent to harm.

[Drummer's Wife]

Good points, LTB and Maria - I agree that it's all about the intent. And I think if it feels wrong, then it probably is wrong, yk?

( guilty here myself, but not as much as years ago - there was a time when I worked with all women, and it felt like we spent a good portion of the day gossiping.)

[merryns.mom]

we are very aware of this in my house as in-laws love to gossip and it's something i don't want my daughter to start. gossip is malicious and destructive and evil.

for me, gossip is saying anything about someone to someone else that does not lift them up, but puts them down. you know, lots of times when one person starts to gossip, i feel like i have to "one up" them with something i know/have heard-it's like contagious poison.

my dh and i have a codeword "umbrella". if either of us hears the other engaging in (listening or repeating) gossip, we say something about an umbrella.

[mi_amor]

Gossip to me is defined by the spirit behind it. I think it's natural to talk about other people, and it doesn't have to be negative or have a bad intent. But the gossip I try and avoid is where one person is putting another down, trying to cause drama, or is sharing something intimate that the other person didn't want spread around just so the gossiper feels good about themself because they're "in the know." Some people enjoy knowing everything about everybody and they love to blab about it.

I've drifted away from my group of "Mom" friends because they didn't talk about anything else but other people. Makes me wonder what they say about me now.

[azgirl]

Some great thoughts here, thank you!
I agree that intent is an important factor...but I guess I struggle with that because I feel like I never have bad intent, but I know that I gossip. It may be that it is hard in the moment to realize when you are slipping into gossip because some insecurity just popped up or you get the urge to strengthen the "us" by talking about "them" if that makes sense.

LionTigerBear- thank you for clarifying the family issue for me. I talk a lot about my sometimes toxic MIL. One of the things that makes her so difficult is that she can't handle any criticism etc. She can very be hurtful and controlling and if I don't talk about it I start to feel like it's normal and I am just over-sensitive. I can really feel it when I have gone to far when I tell stories about her and you guys have helped me clarify that. Sometimes I will tell stories that don't involve just what she has done to me. I realize why I do it: I want the person I am confiding in to know/think that there she has issues, that it just isn't a misunderstanding between the two of us. I don't think that is noble at all. I think it's valid, but I need to work on trusting my own interpretations of events and act on that rather than require constant assurances from others that her behavior is unacceptable.

It's useful for me, even though it's very anxiety provoking, to examine the way I talk to people and about people because it always leads me to realize important issues I need to work on. I have trouble balancing my need to improve and work on my issues and being gentle on myself. They seem so at odds and yet I need do both. I think I have been really hard on myself about gossiping, I see now that a lot of what I say is probably not gossip and I should stop panicking after every conversation (a weird form of social anxiety that I seem to have). And yet, I still haven't been able to completely wipe out gossip...

[MariaMadly]

Originally Posted by azgirl

Some great thoughts here, thank you!
I agree that intent is an important factor...but I guess I struggle with that because I feel like I never have bad intent, but I know that I gossip. It may be that it is hard in the moment to realize when you are slipping into gossip because some insecurity just popped up or you get the urge to strengthen the "us" by talking about "them" if that makes sense.

Thought-provoking . . . this is a good thing for me to catch, too, because sometimes harm results without intent. And we're responsible for that too, aren't we?

[HappilyEvrAfter]

Wow, sorry this got longer than I intended and I jacked your thread!!!

I've been following this thread because I kind of have a problem with this...but from the other side.

Several years ago I went on a mission with myself to stop talking about other people (read: not saying things about them that I would feel embarassed to say to their face). It was so cleansing to not get caught up in the tangled web of maliciousness that I was seeing.

Fast forward to about a year ago when I moved to this small town and now I am having major issues with it. Not becuase I've broken the promise to myself to abstain from it, but because it's so common place around here that I feel ostracized for not doing it and not wanting it done to me.

Because it's so small here everybody hangs out with everybody. This is what happens: You have a group of people who are A, B, C and me. They will be discussing and disecting the goings ons of another person who is D. Then the next day or that very afternoon persons A, C, me and D will happen to be together and they start discussing/disecting person B. WTH??
That just sets wrong with me. Wrong to the point that I tend to shy away from hanging out with any of them.
Now based on my introvertness I can be perfectly fine with not being around any of them, but it keeps coming back around to me that people have started discussing/disecting my anti-socialness.
And the bad part is that everyone (but me) makes it seem like it's not only just human to do this, but it's healthy. I just think that's weird.
Why do I need to continually be inquisitive and demonstrative to someone else's life?
Sure, information sharing is inherant and being military posses life intrusions unlike the civlian sector, but they way they "gossip" is just unproductive.

But, in the context of your question, maybe I'm defining "gossiping" in a way that is unhealthy because I don't want people talking about my issues/problems, ykwim.
Maybe gossip is so subjective based on our life morals and values that what I consider gossip are just thoughtful discussions to them. Maybe it's just how they work out their own issues reagarding a particular subject with peers.

I dunno, I have a hard time with this one because I keep thinking their gossip is just my insecurity.

[azgirl]

Wow, thanks for the great perspective HappilyEvrAfter! Can I ask you about your experience? What was the nature of the talk? Was it mean- spirited or just an exchange of info and observations or was it secrets and judgements? I'm not sure that it matters, but you had a strong reaction to it. It seems that "gossip" if that's what it is, is often used to forge and bond relationships and I'm interested in exploring that...

[HappilyEvrAfter]

Originally Posted by azgirl

Wow, thanks for the great perspective HappilyEvrAfter! Can I ask you about your experience? What was the nature of the talk? Was it mean- spirited or just an exchange of info and observations or was it secrets and judgements? I'm not sure that it matters, but you had a strong reaction to it. It seems that "gossip" if that's what it is, is often used to forge and bond relationships and I'm interested in exploring that...

These experiences range from one end of the spectrum to the other. Generally it's what could pass as fact passing. For example, "You know that new sweater that A got? I didn't really like that color on her."

Other times it can be pretty judgemental (IMO): "If she raises her kids to run around like hooligans then she should expect them to get arrested later." Or..."She's gotten fat lately. There's no way she could run a mile in that time."
Etc.

I don't mind so much the conversations that lead to meaningful (or otherwise general) discussions, but the ones that lead to tearing down another person's faults really grit on me.
They don't seem productive to ME because I think we all have issues we're not proud of and it seems hypocritical.

I'm not really hard core "if you can't say something nice then don't say it at all", but more "if you wouldn't say it to that person's face then you have no business saying behind their back."
Not to say that I advocate being mean spirited to someone's face, but sometimes negative things need to be "outed". And if you're willing to say those things to a person's face then they have a right to be able to defend/rebut/explain/ or just ignore you and make a mental note about who you are to them.

With all that said, I understand human nature and continue to learn about who I am. I generally go with the flow of other people until I have to reasses what part they play on my path through life.

Through all that I'm not saying that being judgemental is a completely negative process. I think judgement has it's place when you're comparing and sorting through issues that affect your own life. But, for me, using that judgement to levy my final decision against another person is flawed becuase they have factors that may not equate in my world.

And so now I'll stop typing cause all that feels all over the place and I think I've come back with more than you wanted to hear (read)!! LOL!!

[azgirl]

Thank you! Those comments ALL sound mean-spirited to me. I don't think I have ever been in a group that spoke of each other like that. Maybe one comment and a much more hedged "nicer" way of saying it comment. Not sure if that is actually better, but it is much more pleasant. I can see why you wouldn't want to be around that. Thanks so much for sharing that, I didn't find it all over the place at all. I have a close friend who just left a group of girls like that and it sounds nuts to me. I haven't really experienced it.

The kind of talk that goes on in some of my groups (and I struggle with guilt over it) is more like: "J really seemed stressed the last time we got together, it sounds like her husband isn't very helpful at all" and then go on to discuss how J's husband teases the other dads for helping too much with the kids. And then we will go on to talk about husband/kid/marriage dynamics that we all struggle with. Now, I am not sure that J would appreciate being a topic of discussion in that way, so I struggle with that. One of the reasons we bring up her husband is because we are anxious about OUR husbands who we have worked so hard to involve in family life will be embarrassed to be so helpful etc. I guess it would be more kind to skip any J info altogether and simply say: "let's talk about husband/kid/family dynamics for a while" but that does not seem to be the natural flow of conversation unless you are on a panel Being mean just to be mean doesn't fly in most of my groups. Someone says something about an ugly sweater or something and no one responds. That kind of talk doesn't go very far with me either. But I definitely struggle with other aspects of gossip more than other people in my groups. Hmmm...

Thanks so much for your input!