Not Sure How To Handle This...Advice?

[Michigan Momma]

So recently my DD (2) has been asking me for things such as a sandwich (PB&J) and then when I give it to her she will tell me, I don't want this. I don't like wasting food but getting her to eat it has become an arguing match and she ends up winning. I find myself yelling in the end because I've become so frustrated because now I have a sandwich with no one to eat it. Normally when she gets a sandwich or something to eat so does DS. So if she doesn't eat it I can't just give it to DS and normally PB&J just doesn't appeal to me.

I've tried telling her that if she does not eat it she has to sit there until she does however when I do this she throws it on the floor! I'm at my wits end. I don't know what to do. How do I explain to her in a way she will understand that we cannot waste food? She's a smart girl and she knows a lot but she is going to be three in a couple of months and is hitting that stage where she is testing the waters....and I'm not sure how much more I can handle.

[nina_yyc]

I'm right there with you mama. It is so hard in a culture that is generally pretty wasteful to understand why we cannot waste this sandwich specifically.

I give my DD really small portions and when she asks me for more I tell her that I don't like to waste and if she finishes she can have more.

I'm not sure how to really get the concept accross at this age, I just mitigate the damage.

[Violet2]

I've had some luck with just emphasizing 'if I give this to you, you need to eat it. I don't want to see you spit it out' (We have spitting food out problems, not throwing on the floor problems.)That is successful about 70% of the time.

I also find if I leave it out, she'll eventually nibble on it. So when lunch is met with disgust, I don't make a big deal out of it, but I do leave the plate there for a few hours.

We get a lot of requests for something which when we respond, she is wildly hostile about the food. So I tell her, you don't have to eat it, but you can't have a fit about it either. I often leave the offensive food on the table and give her something else she asks for (which she often decides she hates too). At that point, the kitchen is closed and I walk away and let her sort out what she's going to eat. Usually she eats both items.

As for the food on the floor thing, just make sure you have clean floors so you can put it back on her plate. And if she does throw it, she needs to pick it up and clean up her mess.

I've also told her no on occasion. I'm not a fan of controlling food intake in a toddler, but DD is sometimes ridiculous with her demands for food. She has learned 'I'm hungry' will get her food so she abuses it now and I have to draw a line so she's not overeating.

V

[hopefulfaith]

I have had this issue with both of my kids, and what I have been doing seems to have helped a little bit:

-Tiny portions, and if they want more they can have it

-If they ask for something and then refuse it, I put it in a little pyrex and it's there for the next snack...I'm not providing six requests and then saving six requests, but if they ask for a PBJ and then don't eat it then that is The Snack for the rest of the afternoon if they are hungry, because I'm not wasting food. I absolutely won't make them eat if they don't want to, and I won't withhold food if I know they're truly hungry...but I'm also not providing a 24-hour diner: if you're hungry, there's that PBJ right there.

-I don't do a "sit until you eat it" approach since then it becomes all about the power struggle for the sake of power struggle and I'm not going to spend my energy doing that. If you're hungry, eat the PBJ I just made. If you're not, don't. I'm not making a different snack, though, because if you're hungry, you can eat the PBJ I just made...!

-If you throw food in my house, you're done (with dinner/snack, whatever). I didn't mind when my babies threw food, but my kids are 4 & 3 now. If they throw food, I calmly clear their place setting and they're done and may be excused. If they have rude manners like that, they must not be that hungry; if you're really hungry, you're going to sit and eat appropriately. They wait until the next serving. I need to add that this is a very calm thing for me; I need to do this so that I do not start yelling/tantruming myself. I will not put up with rude manners at the table at all, and throwing food is completely unacceptable. It is one of a handful of things that is completely nonnegotiable and I will not GD it, shall I say. Throwing=done with food for right now, until they're calm and appropriate enough to eat with us. It does fit with the developmental ages of my kids, though; obviously, I don't know your dd to know if this is appropriate for her.
I need to add, though, that it didn't take too many times of reinforcing this concept that the kids understood that if they weren't feeling like sitting and eating, they simply told me that and I didn't serve them a snack, etc., so we tend to avoid the whole throwing bit for the most part now.

Good luck. It's hard not to make food into a power struggle, especially when it's such a consideration (time, money, ethics of wasting food) for us as moms.

[hakeber]

If he specifically ASKS for the food, he has to finish, not all at once but before he gets anything else, that REQUESTED item has to be GONE, I don't care if it takes all day, if he throws it on the floor, mashes it with his fork, or chews it to a pulp and spits it out. It will be eaten before he gets another thing to eat.

Of course this icy cold heart on the matter comes after many horrible arguments and lectures on wasting food, and money, and time. I just stopped engaging in the struggle...If you ask for it it MUST be eaten.

I also give as SMALL a portion I can manage to make (like a one slice sandwich instead of a two slice sandwich) and insist that when he finishes that he can have more (this also usually means a lot of whining and tears) and often this seems to make him want to eat it more, to PROVE to me that he will eat it and he should be given the amount he asks for...but I am still skeptical.

[kiwiva]

I think it's pretty typical for the age. DD has done that in the past and will sometimes still do it (at 3). I'd try to stop getting upset about it and definitely stop making her sit until she eats it. You will not win power struggles over food.

I'd give small portions and if she doesn't eat it, fine but she also can't have something else until she does. Don't get upset, just move on. If she is actually hungry, she will eat it. But if you get frustrated with her and make it into an issue, she is likely to dig in her heels and refuse (and make your life miserable! ). If you just say "I guess you don't want this now. But since I made you what you asked for, you can't have anything else until you eat this" If she throws it on the floor, put it back on the plate and say "I guess you're not hungry, I'll put this aside for you. Let me know when you want it" and go along with whatever else you were doing.

[K-Mom3]

I would establish a meal situation with fewer choices. I sometimes discuss with my children what we will be eating for lunch, but then I decide and that is it. No more discussion after that. If they change their mind and ask for something else, I tell them, we'll consider that option when we're making lunch tomorrow. Since your dd is only 2, you may want to just offer 2 choices for lunch or sometimes just decide yourself.

I have to admit, I do sometimes add something to a meal part way through--like if we're having sandwiches and I didn't get out any fruit, I'll cut up an apple to be part of the meal and let them eat that. I also let them have milk.

I also am a big fan of saving it for later. Put the sandwich in a baggie and if they are hungry, that is what they can eat. By the next meal, I'll offer the sandwich again but let them eat whatever is served for dinner.

[Michigan Momma]

Thank you all so much for the excellent advice! I will definitely try some of the suggestions here and see what works for us!

[ssh]

We have a completely different approach. If my DD, age 4, asks for something and then doesn't eat it, if it's not something I want or can be easily saved we throw it away. Many foods can be salvaged and used in other things or eaten later. DD usually gets her own food, unless it needs to be cooked. It's important for us to never try to get our DD to eat more than her body tells her she needs because we want her to be a healthy weight. My DH and I are both overweight so letting my DD self regulate her food intake to avoid her developing social eating habits is important to us as a family. Most of the time her snacks are cold beans, salsa, humus, triscuts, cheese or fruit and can just be put back in the refrigerator or cabinet. The few times she has a sandwich or toast her health is more important than finished food.

[Michigan Momma]

So I decided to try giving her smaller portions for lunch today and told her if she wanted more then she had to eat what was there first. I did ask her what she would like to eat and she ate it with no problems and actually asked for more and finished that as well with no problems! No arguing nothing...YAY! Thanks so much for the advice and support.

[pianojazzgirl]

Originally Posted by Michigan Momma

So I decided to try giving her smaller portions for lunch today and told her if she wanted more then she had to eat what was there first. I did ask her what she would like to eat and she ate it with no problems and actually asked for more and finished that as well with no problems! No arguing nothing...YAY! Thanks so much for the advice and support.

That's great!

I think sometimes the smaller portion thing helps too because (besides mitigating waste) larger portions can seem overwhelming to a little kid and then sometimes they just don't want to touch it at all. But give a small amount of the same food and it looks manageable to them. And they might even go on to have 2nd helpings that make the total food consumption equal what the original "larger" portion would have been. This is what I've noticed with my own kids anyway....

[Just1More]

Originally Posted by hopefulfaith

I have had this issue with both of my kids, and what I have been doing seems to have helped a little bit:

-Tiny portions, and if they want more they can have it

-If they ask for something and then refuse it, I put it in a little pyrex and it's there for the next snack...I'm not providing six requests and then saving six requests, but if they ask for a PBJ and then don't eat it then that is The Snack for the rest of the afternoon if they are hungry, because I'm not wasting food. I absolutely won't make them eat if they don't want to, and I won't withhold food if I know they're truly hungry...but I'm also not providing a 24-hour diner: if you're hungry, there's that PBJ right there.

-I don't do a "sit until you eat it" approach since then it becomes all about the power struggle for the sake of power struggle and I'm not going to spend my energy doing that. If you're hungry, eat the PBJ I just made. If you're not, don't. I'm not making a different snack, though, because if you're hungry, you can eat the PBJ I just made...!

-If you throw food in my house, you're done (with dinner/snack, whatever). I didn't mind when my babies threw food, but my kids are 4 & 3 now. If they throw food, I calmly clear their place setting and they're done and may be excused. If they have rude manners like that, they must not be that hungry; if you're really hungry, you're going to sit and eat appropriately. They wait until the next serving. I need to add that this is a very calm thing for me; I need to do this so that I do not start yelling/tantruming myself. I will not put up with rude manners at the table at all, and throwing food is completely unacceptable. It is one of a handful of things that is completely nonnegotiable and I will not GD it, shall I say. Throwing=done with food for right now, until they're calm and appropriate enough to eat with us. It does fit with the developmental ages of my kids, though; obviously, I don't know your dd to know if this is appropriate for her.
I need to add, though, that it didn't take too many times of reinforcing this concept that the kids understood that if they weren't feeling like sitting and eating, they simply told me that and I didn't serve them a snack, etc., so we tend to avoid the whole throwing bit for the most part now.

Good luck. It's hard not to make food into a power struggle, especially when it's such a consideration (time, money, ethics of wasting food) for us as moms.

(especially the bolded, bolding mine.)

My ds (3 in May) spends a lot of time on the couch for chewing with his mouth open and smacking his lips. He was with some kids a few months ago, and decided he thought that was funny. So, when he does it, I warn him once (it is kinda a habit sometimes now), and if it happens again at that meal, he goes to sit on the couch (same room, not far away). He comes back to try again fairly soon, but if it happens again, back to the couch. I am just not sitting in a room full of lip-smackers. I am not.

[claddaghmom]

At 2, I would not create negative feelings, nor would I want to fight a 2yo's will on this. I'd be afraid about long-term emotions surrounding food as well.

It's a PBJ, just toss it in a baggie and save it in the fridge.


DD has been doing this lately. She will ask for whatever easily occurs to her or what she sees, such as the bananas sitting on the top of the fridge. She'll jump up and down and ask for one, so I peel it and give it to her and she throws it on the ground.

Some things I've learned from a GD/US perspective:

1) She's bored and is actually moving to eat out of boredom.
2) She's dealing with food intolerances right now and is hungry but not sure what will help.

I imagine she must feel the way I felt with morning sickness. You're starving but each food you consider sounds pukey-disgusting.

Your DD might be deficient in a nutrient or mineral and her body is telling her she is hungry, but she doesn't know how to consciously choose the right food.

[BetsyNY]

People get so messed up over the food thing.

I tend to agree with claddaghmom. Don't make food a battleground ever, but especially not with a two year old.

If he specifically ASKS for the food, he has to finish, not all at once but before he gets anything else, that REQUESTED item has to be GONE, I don't care if it takes all day, if he throws it on the floor, mashes it with his fork, or chews it to a pulp and spits it out. It will be eaten before he gets another thing to eat.

You're not soliciting opinions on this, but I just have to say this isn't how I'd want to spend my time, forcing my child to eat. This makes me sad.

[Just1More]

I don't want to aruge, but I'm going to offer another perspective. And then I'm done. I won't be commenting in this thread again. I really don't want to start anything.

I don't find that requiring a child to eat what they have requested, within reason, is unkind. It is about teaching them respect. Respect for me, for my time, for their daddy's hard earned money, and for the supplies we have. If you have demanded something of me, it is common courteousy to accept it politely and eat it, or attempt to enjoy it. Granted, at 2 or 3, this is a learning process, and I like to do it as gently as possible. But, now at almost 5, my dd knows that if she comes to me with a request, and has to wait to talk to me until I finish something (like changing a diaper), she is to WAIT for me. She knows it is rude to demand my attention and then run off. Ds knows that if he demands food from me, I will happily get it for him, but he owes me the respect of eating it. It is impolite to whine and argue and demand something else. I don't have to be a jerk about it, but I am unyielding. If my child were to destroy something I had made for him (like a sandwich), I'd be making another and presenting it to him to practice polite behavior.

I am not a restaurant, and I am not a doormat. And I don't think it's a good idea to allow children, even little ones, treat their Mama's that way. I can be firm, and fair, and kind, but I don't have to be abused at the hands of a two or three year old.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by BetsyNY

You're not soliciting opinions on this, but I just have to say this isn't how I'd want to spend my time, forcing my child to eat. This makes me sad.

Fair enough: FWIW, I didn't realize we were talking about meal times, I thought we were talking about snacks. FTR, I don't force him to eat it, he can let it sit there for all I care, but if he asks me to specially make him something between meals I will, but he's not getting another snack or treat until he eats the thing he asked me to make.

eta:

Originally Posted by Just1More

I don't want to aruge, but I'm going to offer another perspective. And then I'm done. I won't be commenting in this thread again. I really don't want to start anything.

I don't find that requiring a child to eat what they have requested, within reason, is unkind. It is about teaching them respect. Respect for me, for my time, for their daddy's hard earned money, and for the supplies we have. If you have demanded something of me, it is common courteousy to accept it politely and eat it, or attempt to enjoy it. Granted, at 2 or 3, this is a learning process, and I like to do it as gently as possible. But, now at almost 5, my dd knows that if she comes to me with a request, and has to wait to talk to me until I finish something (like changing a diaper), she is to WAIT for me. She knows it is rude to demand my attention and then run off. Ds knows that if he demands food from me, I will happily get it for him, but he owes me the respect of eating it. It is impolite to whine and argue and demand something else. I don't have to be a jerk about it, but I am unyielding. If my child were to destroy something I had made for him (like a sandwich), I'd be making another and presenting it to him to practice polite behavior.

I am not a restaurant, and I am not a doormat. And I don't think it's a good idea to allow children, even little ones, treat their Mama's that way. I can be firm, and fair, and kind, but I don't have to be abused at the hands of a two or three year old.

[mamaofthree]

i guess i don't see the problem. just stick the sandwich in a baggie and put it in the fridge. if she wants it later then she is welcome to it, if not maybe someone else will be interested.
2 is really young, they change their minds often. you could just make 1/2 a sandwich or even just a 1/4 and that way it isn't so overwhelming. and if in the end you have to throw it out, you are not wasting that much food. maybe even letting her help make it (not that has ever seemed to work with my kids, but i hear it is suppose to work. lol)
i refuse to get into food battles with my kids because of how i was raised. i don't want eating and the pleasure of food to be associated with me being angry and the child feeling forced to eat food they don't want. as you have pointed out, this is a battle you can not win, she is in control of her stomach, do you want her to learn to not listen to her own body? because this phase will pass, but the feelings she learned during that time will not. so she might learn to eat when she is not hungry, do what others tell her without listening to her self, and eat foods she doesn't like or want just to make someone else happy. the goal is what you want for her in the long run, how do you want her to deal with food?

h

eta: this is a very very young child we are talking about here, and i think maybe we (as in the parents) put way too much emotion into an act that these little kids aren't meaning. we make the acts into some sort of mean spirited power struggle that they are doing to be hateful and disrespectful to us (as parents). i think a great book on parenting "When Anger Hurts Your Kids", it talks about what to expect from age to age and how to stop taking everything they do (the children) as a personal assault. most of the issues of parenting come down to us as parents thinking our young children are being mean to us and doing things to disrespect us when they are not doing it at all. do you really think that your two year old is disrespecting you on purpose? not honoring her father for his hard work, and thinking you are a waitress? or is that what you are feeling, and all that is really going on in her mind maybe the sandwich wasn't what she wanted?

h

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

i guess i don't see the problem. just stick the sandwich in a baggie and put it in the fridge. if she wants it later then she is welcome to it, if not maybe someone else will be interested.
2 is really young, they change their minds often. you could just make 1/2 a sandwich or even just a 1/4 and that way it isn't so overwhelming. and if in the end you have to throw it out, you are not wasting that much food. maybe even letting her help make it (not that has ever seemed to work with my kids, but i hear it is suppose to work. lol)
i refuse to get into food battles with my kids because of how i was raised. i don't want eating and the pleasure of food to be associated with me being angry and the child feeling forced to eat food they don't want. as you have pointed out, this is a battle you can not win, she is in control of her stomach, do you want her to learn to not listen to her own body? because this phase will pass, but the feelings she learned during that time will not. so she might learn to eat when she is not hungry, do what others tell her without listening to her self, and eat foods she doesn't like or want just to make someone else happy. the goal is what you want for her in the long run, how do you want her to deal with food?

h

eta: this is a very very young child we are talking about here, and i think maybe we (as in the parents) put way too much emotion into an act that these little kids aren't meaning. we make the acts into some sort of mean spirited power struggle that they are doing to be hateful and disrespectful to us (as parents). i think a great book on parenting "When Anger Hurts Your Kids", it talks about what to expect from age to age and how to stop taking everything they do (the children) as a personal assault. most of the issues of parenting come down to us as parents thinking our young children are being mean to us and doing things to disrespect us when they are not doing it at all. do you really think that your two year old is disrespecting you on purpose? not honoring her father for his hard work, and thinking you are a waitress? or is that what you are feeling, and all that is really going on in her mind maybe the sandwich wasn't what she wanted?

h

to all of that. It reminds me of when parents refuse to pick up their crying 6 week old because "he is manipulating me and has to learn." Not what I would expect in the GD board.

[WinterPearl]

My 2 cents - Have you tried letting her 'help' make it? My DS loves to spread the peanut butter on his bread and helping carry things to the table. I find that when they feel like they made what they wanted it just might taste a little better.

[hakeber]

We are born programmed to meet the needs of the ID "I want a sandwich right now!" and then our ego develops between 1 and 3 through interaction between the family and others...this is when we begin to absorb certain realities, like wasting food is not okay, mommy and daddy have a limited supply of food to offer, and some requests will be met at some times and others not at other times, and requests to meet the needs of the id must be made in relation to the reality of others around us.

It is through our interactions with our kids that they then develop the super ego or their moral compass which allows them to find ways of regulating the needs and wants of their id and ego according to right and wrong.

Obviously each family will have different guidelines, and different amounts of resources. A family living in poverty would likely not even be able to give an extra sandwich throughout the day, and the child's ego will learn by age three not to even ask for an extra sandwich or snack but hang on until the next meal, even if it's a day away. The family living on limited income will likely teach their child that food outside of family meals is a luxury, not a right, and by the time they are five they may even make the basic connection about daddy's hard work and other moral issues that go along with wasting food. Those families for whom the reality is that food is not a limited resource will likely not have kids who consider this as part of their ego or super ego morality, so their id will make requests for a sandwich and then they may change their mind and it's no big deal, but not everyone can afford to throw out two slices of bread and a tablespoonful of peanutbutter and jam. Not everyone can afford to even give them that extra snack in the first place.

Additionally, some folks do not think it is morally wrong to throw away food. I do. We live in a world where about 1/6 of the planet is starving. Not just on limited food budgets, STARVING to death. We live in a part of the world where we see them every day. So before I judge a parent for being angry about food issues I might ask, how much does it effect their weekly food budget if three or four sandwiches a week get thrown in the garbage? Or how do they feel it will affect their child's vision of the woirld to grow up thinking food is a disposable commodity?

I don't at all view it as a power struggle between me and my child as much as me doing my job as the parent to shape my DC's ego and super ego and teach them what requests are reasonable and what requests are unreasonable. I don't in any way think my kid is trying to manipulate me through food, I think my kid doesn't understand that we don't have enough money to throw away food, that we use half rotten vegetables in soups and sauces sometimes. I think he doesn't GET IT that our neighbors' children haven't had a snack EVER in their lives, and it's morally reprehensible to throw food in the garbage. I think I have to help him understand that when we prepare food, we prepare only what we can and will eat, and that snacks are a LUXURY that we do NOT take for granted in this house. It's an issue of right and wrong, and it's my job to teach my kids that every day.

I see it as part of the development of his ego and super ego. Infants cry and get what they want because they can't regulate their needs and their needs are basic: hunger, thirst, sleep, comfort. Toddlers need to learn to work within the REALITY of their situation, and Children should be developing their morality, and there is a morality about food for many people.