Grounding time too harsh?

[dsperkins]

Hi,

My spouse and I are disagreeing on grounding time. Our son (8 y/o) is having trouble at school and got in trouble Friday for hitting another kid because he was steeling another kid's food... one of us thinks he should be grounded to his room that evening and all day Saturday writing sentences and the other one thinks its to harsh... We both agreed to get other opinions.. any thought?

Thank you for your help!

[angelandmisha]

So was your kid stealing food or hitting someone who was stealing a third child's food? If your child was stealing food, have you asked him about why? If he was in essence, standing up for a third child, good for him! His desire is noble and just needs to be taught a more appropriate way other than hitting to stand up for a friend. I think the answers to those questions would matter in what I would do in response.

In any event, I think writing sentences is silly and won't do any good. I mean, what are you/your spouse thinking will be the benefit of that exercise? I also wouldn't ground him. I never felt like it taught me anything as a child or made me less likely to repeat the offense. It just made me mad.

I would probably talk to him about more appropriate ways to handle the situation next time it occurs. But I don't really think punishments/time outs are necessary or productive and don't do them here. So, that may not be a comfortable approach for you.

I notice this is your first post, and welcome to MDC! There's lots of great advice/info floating around here. A great book about the whole "discipline" issue is Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. He lays out a very convincing argument against punishment and keeps the focus on what we really want to be teaching our kids- how to grow into mature adults capable of making the right choices for themselves. It really changed how I thought about parenting. Good luck!

[MamaKickyPants]

Can you explain what you hope your son to get out of the extensive grounding and writing lines? I don't know how those things are connected to what he did. (and, like pp, need more info on the exact situation to give a better response) I don't think punishments work very well. Kids often learn something different than what we are trying to teach them! In this example, his thought process may go something like this: "When I do something wrong, my parents send me to my room for a day to write lines. I really hate that. I'm really angry they are treating me like that. I don't want that to happen again. I better make sure I don't get caught next time."

Instead, you could have a long talk with him and find out what REALLY happened. Even if he just outright hit for no seeming reason, there is ALWAYS a reason. You need to address the reason, as well as the hitting. I would recommend helping your son figure out a way to make restitution to the person (or people) he hurt.

WHenever I was grounded as a child my anger at being punished so harshly and not being given an opportunity to explain my actions, I just got so angry that I never spent anytime thinking about what I did, and jsut sat around plotting ways to not get caught - seriously!

[staceychev]

Welcome to MDC!

Just want to chime in about writing lines: As an English teacher, I believe that writing lines as a punishment teaches children to view writing itself as a punishment, which is contrary to how we want them to develop as literate children and adults.

Imagine if every time you got in trouble, you had to eat a very large plate of vegetables. Your mind would form an association that "eating vegetables" = "punishment" and you certainly wouldn't want to eat vegetables when you're not being punished, even though they're really healthy and important to eat!

In addition, I totally agree with previous posters who said that there's a problem because there's no connection between the offense and the response.

[ssh]

I think grounding is only appropriate when it's a logical consequence. If a child shows they can't use something safely they are grounded from that thing. For example a child playing video games instead of doing homework and going to bed at a reasonable time could lose the privilege of playing video games on school nights. Or a teenager who consistently comes in late on school nights might lose the privilege of going out on school nights.

For your situation talking about the incident and having your DS come up with ideas about what he could have done instead would be the best option. Also if you child feels he has to play the vigilante to protect his friends maybe the school's discipline system is lax or unfair. Did the child stealing food get in trouble too? What would have happened if they kids had told someone the food was being stolen?

[new2this]

I feel the punishment really needs to fit the crime. So writing lines doesn't to me equate to anything related to what has been done.
I don't think grounding is so bad though but would talk to him so he understands why he is being grounded and come up with ways with him to avoid it again in the future.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by staceychev

Welcome to MDC!

Just want to chime in about writing lines: As an English teacher, I believe that writing lines as a punishment teaches children to view writing itself as a punishment, which is contrary to how we want them to develop as literate children and adults.

It kind of sounds like he was being a good guy, though he shouldn't have hit the other boy...I just don't think I could stop myself from giving my kid a high five if I heard he did that. Maybe I would request that the school arrange mediation with boys involved, and that my son take a class on non-violent communication for kids...if there was one available.

[mamazee]

First, if he was defending someone, I would encourage that, though talk to him about other ways of defending people.

Second, that punishment would be too harsh for just about anything short of a felony. (just a joke there)

Third, my opinion is that unless there is something really really serious going on, if the school has handled something involving one of my kids, I don't need to also pile something on top of their actions. And if it were something really really serious, I'd be looking at counseling or something instead of punishment.

[MusicianDad]

Agree with talking to him about ways to defend that don't include violence, if that is what he was doing. Standing up for someone who isn't capable of standing us for themself is not a bad thing to do.

Going to say, groundings and writing lines just don't happen in our house. Really, how much does either of those even work? I have yet to meet someone who says "I was grounded so I'm not going to do it again." And writing lines is just tedious busy work parents and teachers impose to prove "I'm the adult and I can make you do whatever I want."

[One_Girl]

Did he get a consequence at school. It sounds like he was trying to defend a friend, but he needs to know what else he can do in that situation. I think grounding and writing lines are very harsh punishments that do nothing except help a child learn how to be happy on their own. Kids sometimes hit other kids at school, even if it had been on purpose I don't know that a punishment at home is warranted. Usually the school's punishment is more than adaquate. If it becomes an ongoing thing then a consequence may be justifiable. If he is going to write something then I think it should be an apology letter. In this case I don't know that an apology letter is even worth it because it is good that he stood up for his friend.

[mamadebug]

Punishment, and that punishment specifically, doesn't seem to me that it would do anything to really help your son figure out how to better handle a situation like this the next time or how to communicate better or how to be more empathetic.

I get where he was coming from if looking at it from an 8 year old's perspective. Someone was doing something they shouldn't so he jumped in there to try and defend the kid whose food was being stolen - and handled it inappropriately. That too is understandable - many people tend to react impulsively to all kinds of situations.

My first concern, really, would be the kid who was stealing food. If the kid is 8 y.o., he is probably a 2nd or 3rd grader. I used to teach K and 1st grade. I have had kids in my classes who have "stolen" food - either out of desperation (families living in such poverty that they truly had no food in the house and the kids were really hungry) or in one case, the mom withheld food as a punishment and the kid was really, really hungry. So, when I hear of a kid that age stealing food, I would look at why. The kid "stealing" the food could be a totally spoiled, entitled kid who just thought s/he could take whatever they wanted - but there could be some other more serious issue going on. Either way, I think this situation is a very real chance to teach your child that you never know why another person is doing what they are doing. The kid maybe hadn't eaten in a day or so and was really hungry or maybe the kid was just testing limits or acting out because of something else or who knows? At any rate, it is a chance to teach your son that he doesn't know, it isn't his job to know why another kid does something like that or to judge that kid or to try and take matters into his own hands, but to tell an adult as soon as he can.

I think something much more effective than grounding a kid and writing sentences would be having a meeting with your child, you, your DH and your son's teacher to talk about the situation and give him some tools to handle a situation like that next time. Not a meeting to "get him in trouble", but rather to show that you take this seriously enough to talk about it with all of the adults. I think a meeting like that impresses upon a kid that their behavior was not OK and that all of the adults are aware of it, but also helps him be able to deal with tough situations the next time. My son is in K this year, and we had a meeting like this with his teacher and him over an issue - the point of the meeting was to help him understand why his behavior towards another kid was not OK, to let him know that we understood where he was coming from and to give him alternatives for the next time it came up. My son took it very seriously and he actually used the strategies we talked about with his teacher the next time it came up.

Navigating social situations can be so, so hard at school. Clearly, your son knows that stealing is not OK. He is at school with kids from all kinds of backgrounds, with different life rules they are taught, with different life situations, etc. While it is important to impress upon your son that he can't use physical violence, what your son really needs is support in learning how to navigate uncomfortable social situations when you aren't there.

[Andyr]

hi i am very anti grounding. I don`t see the benefit, it just makes kids frustrated and it doesnt make them understand the consecuences of the things they caused to deserve this. I think explaining and helping them understand is much more efficient in the long run

[dsperkins]

Originally Posted by dsperkins

Hi,

My spouse and I are disagreeing on grounding time. Our son (8 y/o) is having trouble at school and got in trouble Friday for hitting another kid because he was steeling another kid's food... one of us thinks he should be grounded to his room that evening and all day Saturday writing sentences and the other one thinks its to harsh... We both agreed to get other opinions.. any thought?

Thank you for your help!

Ok so My husband posted the first one and he did not tell the whole story, my son is 8 Yrs old and about 3 weeks ago and i will give a week example ( monday- breaking rulers= punishment spanking, Tuesday- back talking his teacher = punishment spanking, Wednesday- Making fun of kids in his class = punishment spanking, Thursday- mouthing off again and not doing his work = punishment spanking.... so since i could tell that that was not working i told him that if he was bad at school Friday he was going to be grounded to his room . So Friday i pick them up from school and i looked at his folder and he punched a kid in the back so hard it left a bruse and later he was climbing over the bathroom stalls laughing at kids in the other stalls ) so he knew it was coming and he did it anyways, this is not the first time he has hit but this is the first time i have grounded him for an average 8 y/o his behavior is terrible and i have tried everything , talking, time outs, spanking, now i thought i would try grounding it worked for me when i was a kid so ....... i guess we shall see if it works for him i'll let you know !

[ssh]

Young learn by example, humans included. So hitting your kid has taught him to hit people and in his case to break things. Research has shown that spanking and harsh punishment cause antisocial behavior, bullying and violence. Making your DS hate writing too isn't going to help him in life.

You came to a gentle discipline forum or at least your DH did so I'll suggest you read Kids Parents and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka. It's not too late to salvage the adversarial relationship you have with your son and it sounds like the adversarial relationship he has with the rest of the world. Read the book, sit him down say "hey this isn't working so we're going to try something new. The first family rule is 'Treat each other with respect'. When one of us breaks it we will remind each other".

[Lovenest]

Say what... your spanking him? I hope you have come to the gentle discipline forum so you can get some better ideas as hitting a child is going to get you know where. I think it sounds like you and your hubby need to attend a parenting class as it sounds like you are frustrated and not sure what to do with him. If you can not do a parenting class I would look at the posts above for some guidance as spanking/hitting is not going to do anything but make him hit others as well. I am sure he has lost respect and trust for you as well, you need to start repairing your relationship with him.

Best of luck.

[mamazee]

First, spanking teaches kids to hit, so he learned that from you.

Second, simply replacing one punishment with another will not solve your problems. You need to communicate differently with him. I suggest the book How To Talk To Kids So They Will Listen.

[One_Girl]

My mother was very heavy into punishment when I was a kid (spanking, grounding, starving us out, etc...) and it really wasn't a deterent. We were not very good kids to her and she was not very kind to us. At school and every where else we tended to be wonderful, but at home we were not. What did start to deter me was my mom working to build a relationship with me when I was about your sons age. I went through a really tramatic event and she started trying to bond with me to help me through it. This relationship lasted though and I would think about what she would think about my actions, not what she would do but how she would feel about them, and that did start having an effect on my behavior towards her. If spanking and punishment aren't working, then I think you should do some research into some of the less punitive approaches. I really like How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. The author talks some about her path from punishment and yelling and it is very helpful.

[betsyj]

monday- breaking rulers= punishment spanking, Tuesday- back talking his teacher = punishment spanking, Wednesday- Making fun of kids in his class = punishment spanking, Thursday- mouthing off again and not doing his work = punishment spanking

One of my Mom's favorite sayings is, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

Sounds like you and your husband need some different ways of reaching this kid because what you are doing not only isn't working but seems to be making things worse.

[mamadebug]

His behavior seems quite logical to me - he was hit 3 or 4 days in a row and then he in turn finally hit someone else.

If my child was struggling with behavioral issues at school like that, I would look a lot further into the problem and see what is triggering his behavior. Kids, for the most part, don't set out to be mean or destructive. They actually, usually, want to be a part of a peer group, their class, their school community, etc. If they are doing things that go against the group, norms, whatever there is usually something going on on a deeper level. He is young and probably can't even sort out for himself what is going on and needs your help with that.

[hakeber]

DSperkins, Welcome to the gentle Discipline Forum.

I think you and your husband have come to the right place.

This is a great forum to learn about:

A) the damage we do to the relationship we have with our kids when we terrorize our children with the "I'm big. You're small." attitude of parenting that many if not most of us grew up with.

B) better strategies for helping our kids be the people we hope they want to be.

C) ways to control our anger and our reactions to own traumatic issues that our children can trigger in us.

D) how to mitigate the circumstances so that our children have fewer opportunities to make bad choices in the first place.

None of us here are perfect or experts, but we all believe in one simple concept: It is not okay to be violent with our children as a means of disciplining them, not physically, not verbally, not passively. Do we always manage to live by this tenent? I can't speak for everyone, but I know I fail sometimes. It is a difficult road towards peaceful discipline and non-violent communication, especially if we have been innured to violent discipline and control through aggression our whole lives as so many of us have. We are all learning as we go, but I hope you come back to these boards, and take this opportunity to learn a better way to comminicate and survive your role as this boy's mom.

There is a better way. Please spend some time reading these boards. Please spend some time sharing your frustrations here. Please come vent here before you react violently, again. Please read some of the suggested books if you have time. Welcome. I hope you stick around.