early onset BPD and hypersexuality

[PoppyMama]

I will probably delete this eventually because it's so personal...

My developmentally precocious 12 (almost 13) year old dd is most likely BP. I made the mistake of waiting too long to get her assessed (should have done it at about 8) and then went with a youth counselor (worthless) and now finally we're seeing a psychologist but it's slow going to get any results because of our insurance. In the meantime I am about to fall apart. She has always been a sexual kid but she doesn't masturbate in public or assault people so it's never been self destructive until now. It is so hard to type this...my dd is texting with older men (multiple) in a sexual way and it's not even like their older men pretending to be teens. Before anyone asks, I am trying to control her behavior but if I close one door she will find another. It doesn't seem to be something she enjoys but something that relieves stress (like cutting which she also does sometimes) and I have caught her doing it while we're all hanging out in the livingroom...so she's not masturbating. She has also done this with teens so she's not only looking for older men. It's attention seeking of the most destructive kind. I don't even know what I'm looking for here...but if I could get feedback from people who have dealt with this as a mental health issue I would greatly appreciate. I don't really want to hear from people who think this is a discipline issue and that I just need to crack down on her and she'll get better. This is not the case here.

[Starflower]

I didn't want to read and then ignore your post, but I don't really have any advice. Just for you. That sounds like a really difficult and scary situation. My brother is BP (not diagnosed until 18 but my mom is positive he was also during childhood). I hope you are able to find the help and resources you need to keep your DD safe.

[Maluhia]

How do you feel about the therapies available for her condition? Are there "good" ones that feel "right" to you and others that don't?

All in all, please do take care of yourself on this journey. I know people can judge so easily, and you deserve to be supported as you travel this road to help your DD with her disease.

[KatWrangler]

[Satori]

Why not just remove her ability to text? If she has to have a cell lock it down or get her one that only calls pre approved numbers (like FireFly). Some cell carriers also have parental controls on the phones but you don't know until you ask about it.

[PoppyMama]

I can lock up her texting. It's probably locked half the time. It doesn't take away the behavior it just changes the outlet. There is no way to remove every outlet of communication from her short of keeping her prisoner and that does not produce a result that is livable. Without social interaction she becomes very depressed and the other harming behaviors increase dramatically. The problem is that she doesn't see the problem -especially when she's engaging in the behavior- she sees the situation as her being lonely and needing to talk so she puts her phone number out there and then talks to the people her respond to her in the way they want her to respond. I know this is probably incomprehensible to most people but it makes perfect sense to her. I can't micromanage her forever and I don't just want to control her I want her to find her life to be happy enough to be worth living. In most ways she is a woman not a girl but the little person in her head who is supposed to let her know when things are inappropriate/wrong/diseased doesn't work. Hopefully, her psychologist will be able to do something for her soon. I just hope she can see the problem.

[Satori]

This is probably going to sound totally ridiculous but I speak from personal experience. Extreme physical activity will help curb this. I don't mean let’s go play soccer and base ball 1-2 hours a day, I mean full on heavy duty training in a high energy sport several hours a day every day. In high school I spent 8 hours a day 5 days a week plus 6 hours on Saturday training in marital arts. Granted there was a mix of various training from running to stretching to tai chi to tae kwon do but the point is I was kept fully engaged and active. I made friends and it kept me out of trouble for the most part (I still got in trouble at school) but if I wasn't in school I was usually training. I burned a huge amount of energy and most nights I wasn't allowed to leave until both my gi (uniform) and my belt was soaked (my poor muscles felt like jelly but the endorphin high was worth it) and then I still had to ride my bike home.

It kept me so busy that it kept me away from the problem kids, gave me an outlet for all that energy (ask any guy, heavy exercise helps with sexual frustration and anger/anxiety), most if which, ok 100% of which in my case was negative energy and I spent time with healthy friends. I'm willing to bet she'd stop this if you lock the phone and give her a very healthy outlet for her energy but just 1-2 hours a day won't cut it. I'd say at least 3-4hr+ daily. As soon as my BP1 dd's SSI finally shows up I'm dragging her back to the master for a similar grueling schedule because I know she NEEDS to expend that level of energy to keep out of trouble. Its mind boggling to most people but having BTDT, I understand that need and will be happy to provide it.

[newbiemama09]

sadly, in this day and age it's NOT that uncommon for a pre-teen to act this way. i work in a mental health clinic focus on sexuality-based issues, so i can safetly say you're not alone. the best thing you can do is get your DD to see a therapist who HAS EXPERIENCE working with sexuality-specific issues. the best resource i can give you is the national Stop It Now website, they can probably connect you with resources in your area FOCUSING on sexuality. please, please know you're not alone, and i'll be keeping your DD and your family in my thoughts/prayers.

www.stopitnow.com (i promise, it's not just for sexual abuse, it's so much more)

[APToddlerMama]

I haven't had a chance to read all replies carefully as I'm on my way out the door...but three quick thoughts for you as a mom and as someone who has worked professionally with kids with mental health issues.

First, I understand that you don't want this to be a discipline issue, but it is a safety issue. It is illegal for these adult men to be sending sexually explicit texts to a 12 year old, and I would treat it as such with law enforcement. The men engaging in this with your child are sex predators.

Secondly, has your daughter been sexually abused at any point? Her behavior could be a result of BPD, but I wouldn't rule out needing to work through sexual abuse issues either.

Third...This could also be related to her not having the skills and tools she needs to effectively cope with stress. Sexually acting out can be a maladaptive coping strategy, so having a therapist work with her on some healthy ways to relieve stress and anxiety could decrease her need to act out sexually/cut/etc.

Good luck to you, Mama. I can't imagine what a challenging situation this must be for you. If the psychologist you're working with isn't helping, be sure to see someone new. Sometimes it just isn't a good match. Good luck.

[APToddlerMama]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

I can lock up her texting. It's probably locked half the time. It doesn't take away the behavior it just changes the outlet. There is no way to remove every outlet of communication from her short of keeping her prisoner and that does not produce a result that is livable. Without social interaction she becomes very depressed and the other harming behaviors increase dramatically. The problem is that she doesn't see the problem -especially when she's engaging in the behavior- she sees the situation as her being lonely and needing to talk so she puts her phone number out there and then talks to the people her respond to her in the way they want her to respond. I know this is probably incomprehensible to most people but it makes perfect sense to her. I can't micromanage her forever and I don't just want to control her I want her to find her life to be happy enough to be worth living. In most ways she is a woman not a girl but the little person in her head who is supposed to let her know when things are inappropriate/wrong/diseased doesn't work. Hopefully, her psychologist will be able to do something for her soon. I just hope she can see the problem.

I just wanted to come back to this now that I have a little more time. You are so right when you say that taking away the texting just changes the outlet for her. I think you are onto something there in that you understand that the texting is a symptom of something bigger going on which desperately needs to be addressed. *But* exchanging sexually explicit messages with adult men is truly a safety issue. She is not a woman. She really is still just a girl, despite some alarming adult-like behaviors. The part of the brain responsible for judgement and impulse control continues to develop even past the teen years, which means that you have continue to protect her from some of her poor choices. So, I guess my point is--Yes. Definitely do address the bigger issue of why she is behaving this way. But, also please protect her in the mean time by taking away her texting abilities or whatever else you need to do to keep her safe. If she is lonely without texting, I'd try to address that as well. Does she not have friends at school? Is it because of her behaviors? Is there a group that the psychologist you're working with could suggest for her to build her social skills or learn appropriate ways to interact with other kids? In my area there are several groups which help kids work on social skills and she might end up finding a friend or two in a group like that. Good luck again...

[pigpokey]

That is an interesting point Satori but she really could start with a daily workout for stress relief and go from there. Also while it's possible to tell a kid "you need to work out every day for your physical and mental health" it's another to dictate to a teen that they engage in elite training. I'm wondering how that would work out as a practical matter. Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?

[journeymom]

Poppymama, many hugs to you. Sounds like you've gotten some good advice here.

Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?

What an interesting, great big 'what if'. Pigpokey, it's Poppymama's job to figure out how to tailor Satori's suggestion to her daughter's situation, if she so chooses, isn't it? Satori made a suggestion to help curb, not to single handedly cure, this issue. Based upon her own success. All she can do is offer her own observation. The OP can then do what she wants with the information.

[PoppyMama]

Thank you so much for all the advice. It was really helpful.

Satori- that actually makes a lot of sense and even though I would not be able to enforce that kind of activity I am going to start making heavy physical activity a nonnegotiable part of her week and see how it goes.

newbiemama09- I looked up that website and I'm going to talk to her psych about this next week when we see her.

APtoddlermama- I definitely think that the sex stuff is a maladaptive coping strategy. She has a very hard time processing stress.

My dd is homeschooled at this time because I wasn't able to send her to a school that was beneficial for her and she really needs close supervision by someone who understands her issues. She has great social skills and makes friends pretty easily but they can't fill the void. Texting is how all the kids communicate here so if I completely take away her phone she won't be able to maintain her social network, which is extremely important for her. Right now she has to have me unlock her texting when she needs to use it and I am reading all texts. I have contacted all older people she was talking to and told them they are not to communicate with her anymore. I also took her down to one internet location so it's easier for me to monitor and as luck would have it she is dating a 14 year old this week. Her psychologist specializes in adolescent care and seems to get the issues here but with our cruddy insurance it's very slow going. I'm hoping she will have some response for us at dd's appointment this week. I'm going to talk to her more about the sex issues dd is having. I think I will write it all down and give it to her since this is such a hard issue I freeze up when it's time to talk to other people about it.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

That is an interesting point Satori but she really could start with a daily workout for stress relief and go from there. Also while it's possible to tell a kid "you need to work out every day for your physical and mental health" it's another to dictate to a teen that they engage in elite training. I'm wondering how that would work out as a practical matter. Can you really make a kid swim doubles or will they just call DFACS from the school office and get the matter removed from your hands?

I didn't start off right away training that much, it was like an hour a day a couple days a week then I just kept going more and more. As for CPS, ever hear of the soccer moms ( or what ever there called now) of every sport out there? They push there kids hard and no one bats an eye. They even have boot camps for kids for this stuff, unless your causing the child serious harm CPS is a non issue for this or else they would be after all those soccer moms and dads (my cousin is a soccer dad, I actually feel sorry for his kids, he's pretty intense with there training but to them its just a fact of life and you do it. No choice in the matter.)

[mamahart]

My stepmother is seriously bipolar and a great friend of mine. If your dd does have this disorder she can still lead a happy and productive life and you can figure out solutions (meds, counseling etc etc) I have a 13 yr old and I feel deeply for your situation, but I think talking about the possibility of coping with an illness, along with symptom management like exercise etc, takes a lot of courage and strenth. Hang in there.

[heathergirl67]

::BIG HUGS:: What an impossible thing to be going through. When you talk about BPD are you talking about BiPolar Disorder? I would also seriously recommend talking to your daughter's therapist about Borderline Personality Disorder. With attention-seeking this constant and extreme, it's very possible that she has Borderline. I think your idea about writing down everything you want to tell the therapist is great. I do it because I'm forgetful, but it will work for your situation, too. It's really important for the mental health official to know as much as possible. You say that you're having trouble making progress because of crummy insurance. Is this because you need the appointments more often than your insurance is willing to grant them? Like they have a set "30 visits a year" or something? If that's the case, I would highly recommend looking into using county services. In my area they charge you on a sliding scale. You pay _____ for the year. That covers whatever the mental health providers decide that you need. Including all appointments and medications. Good luck and let us know how things are going!

[PoppyMama]

My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT

[heathergirl67]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT

A lot of people think it's unreliable to diagnose an adolescent with a personality disorder. They used to feel the same way about BiPolar disorder. However the most recent edition of DMS-IV is acknowleging that accurate diagnoses of BPD can be made in kids. I'm not trying to convince you that she has it. I don't know her. I just know from personal experience how BPD affects adolescent girls and how helpful it is to know exactly what you're up against. For us, the sooner we knew the better. Check out this link:

http://bpd.about.com/od/forfamilyand...a/bpdchild.htm

And like I said, I hope she doesn't have it. Just wanting you to know all of the possibilities. Good luck!

[Starflower]

Originally Posted by PoppyMama

My dd is not quite 13, so way to young for a personality disorder diagnosis. Her diagnosis is bipolar NSI which also seems a little like a garbage can diagnosis but fits pretty well. She is very rapid cycling as seems to be common for adol. She has a form of medicaid and sees the psych every two weeks. The psychologist doesn't necessarily think she needs meds which leads me to believe she's not totally convinced of the diagnosis but I am pretty convinced so I'm trying to get her into a child psychiatrist for meds. I just flat out refuse to live with her for the next five years if she's not "altered" in some way. All the happiness is being sucked out of my life and even though it's because I am letting it...well what the hell am I supposed to do. RANT

[Talula Fairie]

I had early onset bipolar disorder (I can remember my first manic episodes was age 12, but I was not dx'd until age 15). I was hypersexual. I had also been sexually abused and never dealt with it as a teen. I'm not saying that's what's going on in your daughter's case, though. Just mania alone can cause hypersexuality, add some hormones to that and you have a pretty explosive mix in your hands.

I don't know what you are supposed to do if they are saying your child doesn't need mes, though. Also, a psychologist said this? She's not qualified to make that call. Only a Psychiatrist (a specialized MD) is. I know you know that but it pisses me off when I see people making recommendations outside the scope of their field.

I KNOW bipolar exists in children. I know because I experienced it. I had delusional, grandiose thoughts with hallucinations more than once, as well as periods of severe, suicidal depression. I remember it starting around age 12, but the depression I know started way before then, I just remember that being my first marked manic episode.

I don't agree that exercise helps. I suppose it could for some people, but until I had medication NOTHING helped. I walked to and from school straight up and straight down a 1 mile hill. I did hardcore aerobics and running for an hour every day. I rode horses 5-7 days a week for 3 hours from age 15-17. I was still hypersexual. Meds helped a lot, though.