Need ideas for ways of making restitution(perhaps as a response to hitting?)

[mama*pisces]

My ds is 3, turning 4 in May. One could definitely say he is spirited, and that I have been STRESSED lately, especially with a new baby in the house.

He has been quite violent lately, hitting me, spitting at me or purposefully on the floor(he knows where he is allowed to spit), sometimes calling me names in anger. For a time I was trying to follow Barbara Coloroso's rule of "You hit, you sit"....and there was a time when he would sit, but now he won't. I've been repeating over and over, "You may not hit me" and every time I ask him what he should do instead when he is angry, he says: "Clap my hands, stomp my feet, use my words, hit a pillow." EVERY time, he will say this. Yet he does none of it. So...I'm thinking, that perhaps I need to find a way to work these behaviors into MY framework when I am angry, and if I start modeling how to express anger in a healthy way he will eventually follow suite. MUCH easier said than done....

But anyway, kinda went off on a tangent there...yesterday, in response to him hitting, I spontaneously told him that he had to find a way to make it up to me. He couldn't think of anything, so I suggested he draw something: he said, brightly: "A happy picture?" and I said yes, and he drew a smiley face(the first one i've seen him draw, actually). Then today it happened again and I suggested that he find a way to make the situation right again, but thought it should be something else besides drawing, though I didn't know what to suggest.

So...does anyone have their kids make restitution, or "healing actions" to make the situation right again in cases like this(and if you do, can you give me examples)? I'm really at a loss for what to do as far as the hitting, and then there are the ear-piercing screams and the being loud while his sister is sleeping....

[PrincessAnika]

what about, he hits you, to make it up to you he does a chore for you? such as sweep the kitchen floor, wash the table off with a washcloth, etc - something that he is able to do? also if you are able to pick up on 'trigger' behaviors before he hits, something along the lines of 'i can see you are getting upset/angry/whatever, do you feel like you need to hit a pillow?' and positively reinforcing when he does not hit and remembers to not scream while baby is sleeping - possibly a sticker chart with a prize after so many stickers, or maybe for every 10 mins not screamed in gets a penny to put in a piggy bank?

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by PrincessAnika

what about, he hits you, to make it up to you he does a chore for you? such as sweep the kitchen floor, wash the table off with a washcloth, etc - something that he is able to do? also if you are able to pick up on 'trigger' behaviors before he hits, something along the lines of 'i can see you are getting upset/angry/whatever, do you feel like you need to hit a pillow?' and positively reinforcing when he does not hit and remembers to not scream while baby is sleeping - possibly a sticker chart with a prize after so many stickers, or maybe for every 10 mins not screamed in gets a penny to put in a piggy bank?

Hmm...I thought about the chore thing, but my goal is to have him help me around the house on a regular basis with little chores(we're still not really at this point though), so I wasn't sure if I should use chores for that purpose as well. But I suppose that could warrant doing an extra chore on top of what I'm having him help me with. As far as catching him before he hits...I like the idea, but when he was about to swing on me in the past I have said: "Go hit a pillow!" and it didn't deter him from me. Perhaps if I hand him one instead...

[mama*pisces]

So...nobody else does anything like this?

[texmati]

It's sounds a bit odd... I know people don't do punitive punishments-- and I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that.

I just feel intuitevely that doing chores or 'making it up' to the person you hit makes it acceptable. I know a few people in my life that I would do a few hours of vaccuming to deck. I would focus more on the source of the behavior, understanding the consequences, and an alternative to the behavior. "Making it up" would be a sincere apology.

[nina_yyc]

Thought I would share what I'm trying with my DD...time will tell if it will work or not, but just some ideas.

When she is rude/angry/hitting, I repeat back to her what she is trying to say in a nice voice. "NOOOOOOO!"/"No thanks mama"/"No thanks mama." If she's worked up enough that she can't say what she has to say politely, I take her to her room to calm down. I am trying to show her what an adult would do when angry...say calmly what they have the problem with and try to work it out, or take some time to calm down, then try to work it out or let it go.

I agree with the principle of making it right, but I am with texmati - you make it right by offering a sincere apology and checking to see if the other person is OK. Maybe try modeling that next time someone is hurt in front of you or you accidentally hurt or wreck something.

I don't really get the connection between happy picture and hitting. It's great that you found something that worked and made you feel better in that moment but I don't think it's a long-term solution. Maybe you should talk to your DS about how to handle an accident or a mistake and see what you come up with together.

Personally, I think the 'hit a pillow' type of idea is for younger kids - like 2 and under. At that point you are just dealing with the impulse to hit things. At 3yo you are dealing with willful intent to annoy or hurt someone. Yes the behavior is arising from discouragement/unmet needs, and it is important to figure those out, but you also need to stop the hitting.

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by nina_yyc

Thought I would share what I'm trying with my DD...time will tell if it will work or not, but just some ideas.

When she is rude/angry/hitting, I repeat back to her what she is trying to say in a nice voice. "NOOOOOOO!"/"No thanks mama"/"No thanks mama." If she's worked up enough that she can't say what she has to say politely, I take her to her room to calm down. I am trying to show her what an adult would do when angry...say calmly what they have the problem with and try to work it out, or take some time to calm down, then try to work it out or let it go.

I agree with the principle of making it right, but I am with texmati - you make it right by offering a sincere apology and checking to see if the other person is OK. Maybe try modeling that next time someone is hurt in front of you or you accidentally hurt or wreck something.

I don't really get the connection between happy picture and hitting. It's great that you found something that worked and made you feel better in that moment but I don't think it's a long-term solution. Maybe you should talk to your DS about how to handle an accident or a mistake and see what you come up with together.

Personally, I think the 'hit a pillow' type of idea is for younger kids - like 2 and under. At that point you are just dealing with the impulse to hit things. At 3yo you are dealing with willful intent to annoy or hurt someone. Yes the behavior is arising from discouragement/unmet needs, and it is important to figure those out, but you also need to stop the hitting.

Yeah, the second time around I got the feeling that it wasn't really a long term solution either. I was just looking for some sort of action that he could take in response to breaking that rule, something to help him have a little more control over himself when he is angry....I guess I will just keep trying my best to model the behavior I want to see, though I've found that rather difficult to do at times....

[cheenya]

I think this is a really hard age for dealing with hitting. My DS turned 4 in Feb, so I've a good idea where you are at. I think restitution is important, but it has to fit with what happened, the chore idea just seems like a power struggle waiting to happen. For us, restitution for hitting includes saying your sorry and trying to make the person you hit feel better.
This is an age for figuring out what behaviors are ok. Sometimes when he is really angry DS will make a big deal about the lead up to hitting, if I don't notice (and I don't always) he'll generally hit me pretty gently. At that point, I remind him that hitting isn't ok, and ask him to apologize. If he didn't hurt me at all, I know he really didn't mean to hurt me, he was testing.
On the other hand, if DS hits me with any force, I make a pretty big deal about being hurt and having to care for my sore leg (or arm,etc.) instead of doing something he was wanting me to do, I generally require a sincere sorry and kiss to get better. If he hits his older sister or baby, the same make it better rules apply. They can be trickier to appease though

The other key thing is that if I see he is about to hit, me or someone else, I do my best to prevent it from happening (easiest if he is about to hit me, it means I'm right there). If I'm across the room, I will forcefully say "stop." But, if I am near, I will intercept his arm and say something like, "hitting is not ok, I won't let you hurt me." The fact that I have time to intercept his hit tells me he wants to be stopped, if he wanted to hit me without my knowing he was going to, he could, its amazing how fast he can move. I think he needs to know that I won't just let him hurt me, just like I won't just let anyone hurt him, in order to feel secure. I've also found he tests more when there are other disruptions in our life and he is feeling less secure.

these were random thoughts typed while playing with baby, hope they make a little sense and are not too garbled

[mama*pisces]

Originally Posted by cheenya

I think this is a really hard age for dealing with hitting. My DS turned 4 in Feb, so I've a good idea where you are at. I think restitution is important, but it has to fit with what happened, the chore idea just seems like a power struggle waiting to happen. For us, restitution for hitting includes saying your sorry and trying to make the person you hit feel better.
This is an age for figuring out what behaviors are ok. Sometimes when he is really angry DS will make a big deal about the lead up to hitting, if I don't notice (and I don't always) he'll generally hit me pretty gently. At that point, I remind him that hitting isn't ok, and ask him to apologize. If he didn't hurt me at all, I know he really didn't mean to hurt me, he was testing.
On the other hand, if DS hits me with any force, I make a pretty big deal about being hurt and having to care for my sore leg (or arm,etc.) instead of doing something he was wanting me to do, I generally require a sincere sorry and kiss to get better. If he hits his older sister or baby, the same make it better rules apply. They can be trickier to appease though

The other key thing is that if I see he is about to hit, me or someone else, I do my best to prevent it from happening (easiest if he is about to hit me, it means I'm right there). If I'm across the room, I will forcefully say "stop." But, if I am near, I will intercept his arm and say something like, "hitting is not ok, I won't let you hurt me." The fact that I have time to intercept his hit tells me he wants to be stopped, if he wanted to hit me without my knowing he was going to, he could, its amazing how fast he can move. I think he needs to know that I won't just let him hurt me, just like I won't just let anyone hurt him, in order to feel secure. I've also found he tests more when there are other disruptions in our life and he is feeling less secure.

these were random thoughts typed while playing with baby, hope they make a little sense and are not too garbled

Thanks for your post! The first part I bolded really resonated with me...I like the idea of having the restitution stem directly from what happened. And as for the second bolded part...man, do I know what you're talking about~ my friend that has a now 6 year old ds was telling me how she got through their really rough age 3 year, and she told me she had to become a master at blocking his attempts to hit her, and would say exactly what you say: "I will not let you hurt me" or "I will not let my body be hurt." I've started doing this, but he is QUICK! And it doesn't help when I'm holding the baby with one arm and trying to block with the other, thus also having to make sure I keep her out of the reach of his swings too. Sigh...today was a really good day, hopefully the trend will continue throughout this week...I just need to remember to try to "unearth" why he is exhibiting certain behaviors, instead of getting caught up in the moment and letting my anger carry me away....it's HARD, so much harder than when he was two! Whoever came up with the phrase 'terrible two's' clearly never had a 3.75 year old....

But anyway, thanks again for your post, I appreciate the time you took to give me some input.

[Freud]

I think what you did was a great idea. Making it right again will help him learn healthy guilt and also come up with ways to make the victim(you) feel better, which will in turn make him feel better. I think drawing a picture to make someone feel better is a fine thing to do. It's totally age-appropriate and I think the manner about which he goes about it should be his idea to make it more meaningful for him.

I do think it might be a good idea to help him learn how to express his anger in a verbal way instead of a bodily way. Anger doesn't just have to come out physically. The more he can talk about it, the less he'll have to use his body. Then, he'll have less making up to do.

[cheenya]

Originally Posted by mama*pisces

I've started doing this, but he is QUICK! And it doesn't help when I'm holding the baby with one arm and trying to block with the other, thus also having to make sure I keep her out of the reach of his swings too.

That can be hard, one other strategy I use, especially if the hitting is happening repeatedly, is to say something like "I'm not going to stay by you if you keep hitting me, and then go into a different room. If he follows me, I'll say something like "are you done hitting?" Usually the answer is yes right away. If its not, I'll go into a bedroom or bathroom and shut the door gently. I then won't let the door open until the answer is yes. I've only ever had to do that twice.

.I just need to remember to try to "unearth" why he is exhibiting certain behaviors, instead of getting caught up in the moment and letting my anger carry me away....it's HARD,

Remembering this gets you a long way when dealing with children as they grow, but yep, its amazingly hard. And it can get harder as they get bigger, because by the time they are seven and looking so grown up, you are thinking, "He should know better by now!" or a similar "should" statement. Think of now as good practice

Whoever came up with the phrase 'terrible two's' clearly never had a 3.75 year old....)

So very, very true

If its any encouragement, at just over 4 things area already looking up, I'm seeing many fewer testing behaviors. It may help too that at nine months the baby is able to play with him, and entertaining the baby is a new fun game, so there is more sibling interaction than rivalry now. I do remember my 7 yr old having these same issues, now there is a whole different set of concerns we are working through (why is it not ok to manipulate your brother into doing your chores for you?), but she has left the hitting issue far behind

[cheenya]

Originally Posted by Freud

I think drawing a picture to make someone feel better is a fine thing to do. It's totally age-appropriate and I think the manner about which he goes about it should be his idea to make it more meaningful for him.

I like that idea a lot, especially for when the person who was hit is not around anymore to help make feel better.

I do think it might be a good idea to help him learn how to express his anger in a verbal way instead of a bodily way. Anger doesn't just have to come out physically. The more he can talk about it, the less he'll have to use his body. Then, he'll have less making up to do.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by texmati

It's sounds a bit odd... I know people don't do punitive punishments-- and I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that.

I just feel intuitevely that doing chores or 'making it up' to the person you hit makes it acceptable. I know a few people in my life that I would do a few hours of vaccuming to deck. I would focus more on the source of the behavior, understanding the consequences, and an alternative to the behavior. "Making it up" would be a sincere apology.

ITA. My first thought when I read this thread was: How about a well considered plan for what to do or NOT do when he feels angry enough to do it again and a sincere apology for hurting you. And here's why.

Do you know what every abused woman I know gets when their abuser calms down and wants to make ammends?

They get jewlery, flowers, fancy clothes, a new car, etc etc etc paired with a shallow apology and an empty promise of "I'll never do it again". Now am I not saying you are teaching your kid to be an abuser, but I do think this teaches kids that you can hurt someone and then make it better with stuff they like. That's not always true.

For me hitting isn't about breaking a rule. It's about hurting someone. You can't take that back or make it better, not ever. Not really. I think now is the time to start teaching that some things can never really made better. You just have to apologize, make a plan not to do it again and hope for forgiveness. Will it take twenty years or even a life time for any person to comprehend that fully? Yes, but I still think the time to start teaching that lesson is IMMEDIATELY.

Have you tried any NVC for kids? Is there maybe a seminar or a family camp being run near you? I know the organization has a book out called Respectful Parents, Respectful kids: http://nonviolentcommunication.com/s...products_id=48

I have never read it but I know it uses the NVC priniciples which I really like. They have really helped us to curb violence in our house from hitting, down to name calling...even for us old folks, which goes to show you CAN teach old dogs new tricks.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by hakeber

ITA. My first thought when I read this thread was: How about a well considered plan for what to do or NOT do when he feels angry enough to do it again and a sincere apology for hurting you. And here's why.

Do you know what every abused woman I know gets when their abuser calms down and wants to make ammends?

They get jewlery, flowers, fancy clothes, a new car, etc etc etc paired with a shallow apology and an empty promise of "I'll never do it again". Now am I not saying you are teaching your kid to be an abuser, but I do think this teaches kids that you can hurt someone and then make it better with stuff they like. That's not always true.

For me hitting isn't about breaking a rule. It's about hurting someone. You can't that back or make it better, not ever. Not really. I think now is the time to start teaching that. Will it take twenty years or even a life time for any person to comprehend that fully? Yes, but I still think the time to start teaching that lesson is IMMEDIATELY.

I think this post is great. Thinking of happy, new, and inspirational ideas for what he can do after he hits is not proactive. I would try to go the route of seeing when he is getting geared up to hit and try to intervene at that point.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Freud

I think what you did was a great idea. Making it right again will help him learn healthy guilt and also come up with ways to make the victim(you) feel better, which will in turn make him feel better. I think drawing a picture to make someone feel better is a fine thing to do. It's totally age-appropriate and I think the manner about which he goes about it should be his idea to make it more meaningful for him.

I guess I don't get this because the action or apology doesn't need to mean something to HIM it needs to mean something to the person who he hurt, right? I mean, should he take it seriously, should he feel it, yeah, but the only one who can decide what, if ANYTHING at all CAN be done to make it up, is the person who is witholding forgiveness for whatever reason.

I remember a boyfriend I had who would get really angry with me when I didn't accept his gifts or acts of restitution, and at the end I thought...but who asked you for earrings or flowers or a clean house or five dinners out...I asked you not to have sex with your secretary! You did...so now I just want you to leave me the heck alone! That is the only restitution I was asking for, but he didn't like that so instead he'd badger me and harrass me into forgiving him, making my forgiveness as shallow as his apology.

I know this is just a kid, but I think empathy and understanding starts forming now, so I would be REALLY wary of setting up a mind set that restorative actions can or should be decided by the perpetrator. Can you imagine if we let criminals pick their own punishments? I don't think that would be very effective

ETA: Learning to use one's words to express their anger in a healthy way is a great thing, but focus on HOW to express that anger, because cursing, yelling and calling names at mommy is IMHO not much better than hitting. Both are forms of violence in my book.

[Freud]

But, I think at this age it does need to mean something to him. I think it might be a far jump to think that because he's drawing pictures to make his mom feel better that in the future he will be buying meaningless gifts instead of offering a heartfelt apology.

The reason it has to mean something to him is because he needs to feel a sense of ownership over his actions, healthy guilt over hurting someone, and then most importantly, he has to know that he is not a terrible kid and that he can make it better. He's 4 and these are all age-appropriate lessons. The way to do it though, is not to force things upon him. Just like I don't agree with forcing a child to say, "I'm sorry" when they don't even understand what it means, then it becomes totally meaningless.

Of course it is a good idea to help a child know what they can do when they're mad, offering a plan to help them get through the feelings without hurting someone, but sometimes kids are unable to follow through with that plan or there is not enough time to for an adult to intervene before the act is committed, and then it is necessary to make it up, by either offering a heartfelt apology or by some other action, which can be just as sincere. I think the most important lesson here is not the actual act or verbal apology, it is helping the child come to the realization that their actions are tied to their feelings and that their actions can impact other people. When this happens, and the action impacts another person in a negative way, then the child needs to be made aware of that and then given the opportunity to fix it so that they don't get too down on themselves. Sometimes kids feel too guilty and it overcomes them, so teaching them that negative actions can be fixed is important. I don't think this serves as permission to hurt whoever they want and get away with it by offering a fake apology.

I do not agree with teaching kids to express their anger in a verbally aggressive manner (swearing, verbal rages) or hitting pillows or beating up teddy bears instead of actual people. But teaching kids that it's okay to talk about the angry feelings in a coherent manner is good (and be truly listened to and understood) because anger does not have to be this totally overwhelming feeling that takes control over one's physical actions or verbal output. It just doesn't always have to be that BIG. Some very brilliant child therapists I know always say, "A child can get through anything they can talk about" and in general, from my own observations, this is true.

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Freud

But, I think at this age it does need to mean something to him. I think it might be a far jump to think that because he's drawing pictures to make his mom feel better that in the future he will be buying meaningless gifts instead of offering a heartfelt apology.

The reason it has to mean something to him is because he needs to feel a sense of ownership over his actions, healthy guilt over hurting someone, and then most importantly, he has to know that he is not a terrible kid and that he can make it better. He's 4 and these are all age-appropriate lessons. The way to do it though, is not to force things upon him. Just like I don't agree with forcing a child to say, "I'm sorry" when they don't even understand what it means, then it becomes totally meaningless.

Of course it is a good idea to help a child know what they can do when they're mad, offering a plan to help them get through the feelings without hurting someone, but sometimes kids are unable to follow through with that plan or there is not enough time to for an adult to intervene before the act is committed, and then it is necessary to make it up, by either offering a heartfelt apology or by some other action, which can be just as sincere. I think the most important lesson here is not the actual act or verbal apology, it is helping the child come to the realization that their actions are tied to their feelings and that their actions can impact other people. When this happens, and the action impacts another person in a negative way, then the child needs to be made aware of that and then given the opportunity to fix it so that they don't get too down on themselves. Sometimes kids feel too guilty and it overcomes them, so teaching them that negative actions can be fixed is important. I don't think this serves as permission to hurt whoever they want and get away with it by offering a fake apology.

I don't think it's a far leap at all. This is the time when we set the habits and norms of our children. This is the psyche shaping time 1-5 for the foundational stuff that shapes who they are. Those adults I know who think stuff and favors and treats can fix bad actions all grew up in households where that was the norm. Daddy yelled and made you cry? Let's go get ice cream and make it better. Mommy didn't believe you were telling the truth and it turns out you were? Let's go buy a new toy. Feeling sad and blue? Here's a lollypop to feel better.

I don't agree with forcing apologies either. I believe contrition comes with empathy and understanding, and takes time to "get". I don't think I have seen a four year old or for that matter a child of any age really get what sorry means, no matter what techniques have been tried on them. They just want forgiveness because they want to know your love, or anyone's is constant, and safe, and they will do whatever you ask of them to be back in that safe place of they care enough about it.

I pretty much skipped the requests for apologies and the blame. DS didn't get it and it was meaningless anyway, but I do tell him what would make me happy again "I need you to listen to me." "I need you not to touch my things" "I need you not to hit me." And ask what his needs are in turn.

I just think you build empathy and contrition more organically over a long time, over a life time.

I guess I just don't see the difference at all between asking them to say sorry and asking them to draw a picture or give a hug or think up something on their own to "make it up". What's the difference? All of them are asking a kid to understand something they can't. Can you have healthy guilt without understanding what they did? KWIM?

I do not agree with teaching kids to express their anger in a verbally aggressive manner (swearing, verbal rages) or hitting pillows or beating up teddy bears instead of actual people. But teaching kids that it's okay to talk about the angry feelings in a coherent manner is good (and be truly listened to and understood) because anger does not have to be this totally overwhelming feeling that takes control over one's physical actions or verbal output. It just doesn't always have to be that BIG. Some very brilliant child therapists I know always say, "A child can get through anything they can talk about" and in general, from my own observations, this is true.

I love that! (I didn't think you did agree with that, BTW, I was just expanding on your initial idea.)