Does your religion make it hard for you to get to know people? - Page 3

[2xy]

What is your world view, What is your idea of spiritual salvation? and Does it keep you from getting to know people?

My world view is naturalistic. I believe that nature is all there is, and all basic truths come from nature. I don't believe in spirits or souls, and therefore do not believe in the concept of salvation. I believe in the continuance of energy. We all are made up of energy, and I believe that when our bodies cease to be, the energy within us returns to the other energies which make up the universe.

If my view keeps me from getting to know people, it's only the people who are too bigoted and narrow-minded to get to know ME. I have no trouble making friends and getting to know people who are not living in fear.

Originally Posted by Shami

I always try to be careful not to offend when I share the Lord with people. When people talk about their problems and weaknesses I just try to relate to them. Usually I ask a person if they want to hear about the Lord before I say anything.

I think a few of reasons people might become offended are 1) It sounds a bit condescending to suggest that someone hasn't heard about your God. Really....is there any grown Westerner who doesn't know who Jesus is? 2) Do you ever witness to people who are happy and confident in their lives? Do you only share the Lord with people who are struggling? Why or why not? 3) People who want to tell you about their religion almost never want to hear about yours. One-sided discussions come across as preachy.

As for rude and pushy Christians, I've known a few....mostly when I lived in the Southern states. Most of the very devout Christians I've encountered have been exclusive rather than pushy. And there have been a handful that have been open, loving, and welcoming of those who do not share their ideology.

[Callimom]

Originally Posted by Shami

Karenwith4 and Mamabadger
It's good to hear your feelings about this. What confuses me is that most people don't mind hearing someone talk about Buddha's teachings and how they meditated over a particular aspect of the 8 fold path. Or maybe someone's spiritual experience in nature and how the felt completely peaceful and connected to the earth and all the people in it. But if I say that the Lord is making His home more in my heart today and shining on a particular thing that I have been struggling with...it makes people uncomfortable. I think that is sad.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you. I think the difference is that Buddhism and Paganism are generally not considered proselytizing religions. Christians however knock at my door, stop me on the streets, corner me at meetings and family reunions, attempt to recruit my children at lessons in the name of "sharing the Lord". There is a vast difference for me between "sharing the Lord" which implies there is some level of salesmanship and talking with a friend about how their faith supports their daily life. Vastly different. And if a friend doesn't know how I will react to "sharing the Lord" then we are not close enough friends for that conversation to be appropriate, imo.

[Shami]

My answers in blue.

Originally Posted by 2xy

My world view is naturalistic. I believe that nature is all there is, and all basic truths come from nature. I don't believe in spirits or souls, and therefore do not believe in the concept of salvation. I believe in the continuance of energy. We all are made up of energy, and I believe that when our bodies cease to be, the energy within us returns to the other energies which make up the universe.

This is exactly what my dad believes, and I love my dad.

If my view keeps me from getting to know people, it's only the people who are too bigoted and narrow-minded to get to know ME. I have no trouble making friends and getting to know people who are not living in fear.
This is the kind of statement that I see a lot on mdc that makes me cringe because I have this sneaking suspicion that you might possibly be referring to a few Christians that have crossed paths with you. And that makes me feel bad.

I think a few of reasons people might become offended are 1) It sounds a bit condescending to suggest that someone hasn't heard about your God. Really....is there any grown Westerner who doesn't know who Jesus is? Probably everyone has heard of Jesus, but I am not always trying to help someone receive the Lord. Sometimes I just want to talk about how awesome He is. 2) Do you ever witness to people who are happy and confident in their lives? Yes. Do you only share the Lord with people who are struggling? No, but this is usually when people are feeling a need for something higher than them. Why or why not? 3) People who want to tell you about their religion almost never want to hear about yours. One-sided discussions come across as preachy. True and I dislike preachy myself. I do ask questions and try to get to know others' beliefs. Just because I believe that my faith is 'the way' doesn't mean that I don't want to hear how other people feel about spirituality. That's one reason that I am on mdc, is to know people in general.

As for rude and pushy Christians, I've known a few....mostly when I lived in the Southern states. Most of the very devout Christians I've encountered have been exclusive rather than pushy. And there have been a handful that have been open, loving, and welcoming of those who do not share their ideology.

God is so real and personal to me and I love Him. So, I want to talk about Him all the time. I do have friends who like to talk about the Lord, but occasionally I want to say something about Him in other places and I can't because it is automatically assumed that I am trying to convert someone. It's like telling someone that they can't talk about their spouse. It just feels like I have to walk on egg shells around people out of fear of offending.
I can go around talking about Buddha all day and either people won't care or they might say, boy, is she spiritual.
I suppose karen with 4 is right about it having to do with the history of proselytizing.

[2xy]

Shami, I know you're feeling defensive about your religion, but let's be real here....many denominations of Christianity specifically teach that you are supposed to share your faith with others. I don't think any other religions do that. You might find the odd Buddhist or Pagan that behave fanatically, but I have personally never seen it, and I've lived in some very diverse areas.

And....maybe you're reading into things. Personally, if someone were to love the Lord so much that they had to talk about it all the time....I wouldn't be offended. But I wouldn't want to spend time with that person, either. For me, it would be the same thing as if someone monopolized every conversation with talk of Elvis Presley or golf. I would have little in common with someone who is extremely wrapped up in something I have no interest in.

Also, you must understand that for those who do not believe in gods or Jesus or what-have-you, listening to you talk about how awesome Jesus is simply unbelievable. There's a guy named Stephen Roberts whom people quote from time to time in religious debate....he said, "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." There are many gods that modern people worship....Vishnu, Thor, Allah, Waheguru, Pele. You think those gods aren't real. I go one step further and include Jesus into the "not-real" camp. So when I hear someone proselytizing, it doesn't offend me as much as it makes me roll my eyes. Sorry....just trying to explain something that you may never have considered.

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Shami, I know you're feeling defensive about your religion, but let's be real here....many denominations of Christianity specifically teach that you are supposed to share your faith with others. I don't think any other religions do that. You might find the odd Buddhist or Pagan that behave fanatically, but I have personally never seen it, and I've lived in some very diverse areas.

I have never known it to happen with Buddhists, but Pagans - definitely. I have encountered quite a bit of hostility from Pagans who dislike certain aspects of Christian teaching. The most common and angry attacks I have run into come from atheists. I just sat through a two hour diatribe from an atheist visitor last week, and it was not the first or the worst I have encountered.

[umsami]

Wow--I've really had very few unpleasant proselytizing events from people of any faith. I've had a few Jehovah's Witnesses give me their magazine--but they've always been very nice, and asked if I could take it. I've had Mormon missionaries ask if I want a copy of the Book of Mormon, and they politely go on their way. Our mosque used to use the church (pentecostal) across the street's parking lot on Friday's.... before we bought the lot next to us... and there was this guy who handed out these handwritten tracts--but he just asked if you wanted one. Heck, he didn't even attack Islam in them--but just presented the Gospel as he saw it. I've never had a Catholic or Mainline Protestant try and convert me. I've never had a Jewish person do so either. Hindu--nope. Buddhist--well, back when I was a Freshman in college, there was this group, Nicherun Shoshu Buddhists?, who used to ask you to come to their temple--but once again, not very pushy about it. Agnostics--never. Pagans--nope, actually, in my experience, they tend to be very live and let live... this is what works for me... type people. :

I've had a few people attack me verbally for being Muslim--but it's hate-filled speech and I never really got the opinion that they wanted me to practice their religion. They just wanted me and all the other Muslims to leave America.

I think for those of you who do believe in proselytism.... I find offering literature, non-offensive. I find asking me if I want to visit your church or place of worship... non-offensive. I don't mind if people ask if they can pray for me. But then, that's me. I suppose there are those for whom some of these may be offensive.

[pink_emerald77]

I'm a Christian. The kind of Christian who loves Jesus, believes that we're all separated from God by sin, that God loved us so much that he sent his Son to pay the price for our sins, and that through faith in him, we have eternal salvation.

I don't find it hard to meet other people with different religious (or not) worldviews. I think sometimes, it's harder for them to accept my views than the other way around. I mean, of course, if the relationship goes further than the surface, you'll end up discussing your beliefs, why you believe in them, etc. and that could either make/break a friendship, in some cases. I've never lost a friend, well not purposely, because of what they believed in or vice versa. I have, however, stopped hanging out with certain people based on the simple fact that we had/have opposing views on life. So if that's what you mean, then I guess yea, sometimes what you or what they believe in can have a huge impact on where the relationship goes.

I have a few friends who are Mormon and it hasn't ever came between our friendship. We've discussed the differences and leave it at that. If she feels I'm in the wrong, then she should be praying for me, lol. If I believe she hasn't found God, it's my job to pray for her, ykwim? I respect other people's beliefs, whether they have one or not. But I also believe God is bigger than each and every one of us and is capable of changing even the most stubborn of hearts. And I continue to pray for all of my friends and family and for those around the world who are just generally lost.

I just don't believe that it's anyone's job to *change* people and that's where I believe religion gets kinda ugly. It's your job to share your faith (because apparently, everyone thinks their faith is true, lol) and pray for their salvation. We are nothing, just the seed, whereas God is the water that makes all things grow.

[scottishmommy]

I'm an Episcopalion, which is considered a fairly non offensive group, but I wouldn't consider myself loosey goosey about my beliefs. That being said, I am also a very proud American, and I value the diversity in this country tremendously. I love talking about different religions with people. I think it's so interesting. I also believe that it is a grave sin to judge people for their religious beliefs. So no, my religion doesn't prevent me from meeting people.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Shami, I know you're feeling defensive about your religion, but let's be real here....many denominations of Christianity specifically teach that you are supposed to share your faith with others. I don't think any other religions do that. You might find the odd Buddhist or Pagan that behave fanatically, but I have personally never seen it, and I've lived in some very diverse areas.

And....maybe you're reading into things. Personally, if someone were to love the Lord so much that they had to talk about it all the time....I wouldn't be offended. But I wouldn't want to spend time with that person, either. For me, it would be the same thing as if someone monopolized every conversation with talk of Elvis Presley or golf. I would have little in common with someone who is extremely wrapped up in something I have no interest in.

Also, you must understand that for those who do not believe in gods or Jesus or what-have-you, listening to you talk about how awesome Jesus is simply unbelievable. There's a guy named Stephen Roberts whom people quote from time to time in religious debate....he said, "I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." There are many gods that modern people worship....Vishnu, Thor, Allah, Waheguru, Pele. You think those gods aren't real. I go one step further and include Jesus into the "not-real" camp. So when I hear someone proselytizing, it doesn't offend me as much as it makes me roll my eyes. Sorry....just trying to explain something that you may never have considered.

I really don't know how to respond to you. You leave little room for discussion. I don't find the quote from Roberts to mean much. He can contend all he wants, but it doesn't change the fact that he is an atheist by definition, and since I do believe in God, by definition, I am not atheist. The statement is nonsensical to me.

I never said that I don't believe that there are 'other' gods. I just don't worship them.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

I just sat through a two hour diatribe from an atheist visitor last week, and it was not the first or the worst I have encountered.

Why on earth would you sit through such a thing?

Originally Posted by Shami

I never said that I don't believe that there are 'other' gods. I just don't worship them.

Fair enough. I'm sorry for assuming things.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and it's going to come out poorly no matter how I phrase it, is that listening to someone share the wonders of Jesus with me would be similar to having someone share the wonders of Santa Claus with me. I'm not alone in this. So, what I've been trying to say is that you are probably not offending as many people as you think you are. People probably sometimes get strange when you talk about God because they don't want to offend you by telling you they think it's bogus. I know I've been in that position a number of times, and so I just smile awkwardly and try to change the subject.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by 2xy

Why on earth would you sit through such a thing?



Fair enough. I'm sorry for assuming things.

I guess what I'm trying to say, and it's going to come out poorly no matter how I phrase it, is that listening to someone share the wonders of Jesus with me would be similar to having someone share the wonders of Santa Claus with me. I'm not alone in this. So, what I've been trying to say is that you are probably not offending as many people as you think you are. People probably sometimes get strange when you talk about God because they don't want to offend you by telling you they think it's bogus. I know I've been in that position a number of times, and so I just smile awkwardly and try to change the subject.

Ah ha. I get what you are saying now. This is exactly how my parents were when I tried to tell them what happened to me when Jesus showed Himself to me. The rolling eye thing and the awkward smile. I know exactly what you are saying. I stopped saying anything to them after that experience. I have to bite my tongue, a lot. It's hard because mom will ask me questions about decisions I make and my decisions were made by praying and the Lord guiding me. How I met my husband was totally wrapped up in the Lord. How do I answer people honestly if they don't want to hear it? So I don't. I hem haw around until I find a way to say it so I don't make them feel awkward. I really am not running around talking about the Lord at every turn. It's just that He's my center so it makes conversation a little hard for me, too. I guess we are both in the same boat.
I am really glad you came back to say it to me another way.

Oh, and mamabadger why in the world to do you have to have visitors like this? Is this your job or something?

[genifer]

Ya know what, Shami, I get what you're saying. Everything about me is so wrapped up in Jesus Christ that its very hard not to talk about it. It inevitably comes up in every relationship I have. Some people choose to stay friends after they know what Im all about, others dont. Its cool. My family was quite like that but after years of seeing our lives, my mom conceeded a few years ago 'Ok, maybe prayer 'works''. Thats as far as she was willing to go. I too stopped talking about my Jesus in specifics to her VERY early on. You know when you're a young christian (young in faith not necessarily in age) and you can be kinda 'on fire' as they put it and really stupid things slip out of your mouth that you later regret? Well we had just one or two of those moments for me to stop talking 'like that' around people, lol. But praying, reading the bible, and all you mentioned are such a part of who I am that that sort of thing inevitably slips out, and those are things about ME that I dont mind mentioning. I found it impossible to keep my mouth shut about my relationship with God to those who didnt believe like I do. It became a case of them not talking to me anymore, I actually never dropped a friend bc of my faith or found it difficult to relate to people of different faiths. I find that bc I am a woman of faith I can relate to others of faith so easily! And yeah, interesting discussions DO come up, but I never force it, EVER. I do understand that people dont believe, that its strange to them, and truthfully, *I* dont like to make people feel uncomfortable, so I tend not to.

[scottishmommy]

Originally Posted by Shami

My answers in blue.



God is so real and personal to me and I love Him. So, I want to talk about Him all the time. I do have friends who like to talk about the Lord, but occasionally I want to say something about Him in other places and I can't because it is automatically assumed that I am trying to convert someone. It's like telling someone that they can't talk about their spouse. It just feels like I have to walk on egg shells around people out of fear of offending.
I can go around talking about Buddha all day and either people won't care or they might say, boy, is she spiritual.
I suppose karen with 4 is right about it having to do with the history of proselytizing.

I have been ridiculed for believing in Christ by professors, friends, and even my Atheist FIL(I believe he said that he was intelligent enough to know that God doesn't exist). I don't talk about my religious beliefs, but if someone asks I tell them the truth. The thing is that Jesus told us we would be ridiculed and possibly martyred. I understand your frustration, but I also think that you should fully expect this sort of thing. It's a prophesy of sorts.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by scottishmommy

I have been ridiculed for believing in Christ by professors, friends, and even my Atheist FIL(I believe he said that he was intelligent enough to know that God doesn't exist). I don't talk about my religious beliefs, but if someone asks I tell them the truth. The thing is that Jesus told us we would be ridiculed and possibly martyred. I understand your frustration, but I also think that you should fully expect this sort of thing. It's a prophesy of sorts.

You are so right and it's good to be reminded of this. I was thinking more about this today and if I remember correctly, there was some point in Jesus' examination by Pilate where Jesus stopped defending Himself or stopped trying to convince them. Off to read that section.

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by Shami

mamabadger why in the world to do you have to have visitors like this? Is this your job or something?

The visitor I mentioned is the son of my best friend, and I did not really want to kick him out of the house. Others are people DH or I run into at work or social events. This is not something that happens every day, you understand.

This is exactly how my parents were when I tried to tell them what happened to me when Jesus showed Himself to me. The rolling eye thing and the awkward smile. I know exactly what you are saying. I stopped saying anything to them after that experience. I have to bite my tongue, a lot. It's hard because mom will ask me questions about decisions I make and my decisions were made by praying and the Lord guiding me. How I met my husband was totally wrapped up in the Lord. How do I answer people honestly if they don't want to hear it? So I don't. I hem haw around until I find a way to say it so I don't make them feel awkward. I really am not running around talking about the Lord at every turn. It's just that He's my center so it makes conversation a little hard for me, too. I guess we are both in the same boat.

I understand how you feel. When DH and I are together with people from our church, or at a church convention, we talk about God and the faith endlessly. It is not always easy to avoid mentioning these things when they are such a big part of my life on a daily basis.
However, I can also see the other side. Christians from denominations which are very different from mine sometimes put me in an uncomfortable position, by making statements I cannot, in good conscience, agree with, but do not want to openly dispute. We should not assume that everybody, even other Christians, hold the same doctrines, and it is rude to constantly insert our own creed into the general conversation, in a situation where others could not challenge it without being rude in return.
I can even identify with people feeling uneasy with remarks about how much I love God, what God means to my life, etc. It is too personal and emotional to share in most circumstances. Also, to be blunt (and I apologize, but I this is where I think a lot of the problem lies) there are different tolerance levels for emotional declarations on any subject, and some devout people can become embarrassingly maudlin. Some of us are reserved about spiritual matters, especially with strangers. Imagine being stuck in a conversation with somebody who won't stop mentioning how gorgeous his wife is and what a great sex life they have, and you probably get the idea. Yes, we are living in a secular society, and non-religious people should, maybe, be more tolerant; but we also have to consider things from the other person's perspective, and learn to filter!

[2xy]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

The visitor I mentioned is the son of my best friend, and I did not really want to kick him out of the house. Others are people DH or I run into at work or social events. This is not something that happens every day, you understand.

No, but two hours is beyond excessive. At some point people need to be reminded that a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. I would have nicely asked if we could please talk about something else.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by genifer

Ya know what, Shami, I get what you're saying. Everything about me is so wrapped up in Jesus Christ that its very hard not to talk about it. It inevitably comes up in every relationship I have. Some people choose to stay friends after they know what Im all about, others dont. Its cool. My family was quite like that but after years of seeing our lives, my mom conceeded a few years ago 'Ok, maybe prayer 'works''. Thats as far as she was willing to go. I too stopped talking about my Jesus in specifics to her VERY early on. You know when you're a young christian (young in faith not necessarily in age) and you can be kinda 'on fire' as they put it and really stupid things slip out of your mouth that you later regret? Well we had just one or two of those moments for me to stop talking 'like that' around people, lol. But praying, reading the bible, and all you mentioned are such a part of who I am that that sort of thing inevitably slips out, and those are things about ME that I dont mind mentioning. I found it impossible to keep my mouth shut about my relationship with God to those who didnt believe like I do. It became a case of them not talking to me anymore, I actually never dropped a friend bc of my faith or found it difficult to relate to people of different faiths. I find that bc I am a woman of faith I can relate to others of faith so easily! And yeah, interesting discussions DO come up, but I never force it, EVER. I do understand that people dont believe, that its strange to them, and truthfully, *I* dont like to make people feel uncomfortable, so I tend not to.

Thanks Genifer for your post. It's really good to hear that someone else is having the same kind of experience. In the beginning I was on a honeymoon with the Lord and said all kinds of stuff that I regret now. But my parents have also seen the fruit of my living, so to speak, and are okay about it all, especially since I keep my mouth shut. I guess I just wanted to be free to say whatever I feel, but after thinking more about it, the Lord Jesus wasn't free to say whatever. He only said whatever the Father said and only did the Father's will.

[Shami]

Originally Posted by mamabadger

The visitor I mentioned is the son of my best friend, and I did not really want to kick him out of the house. Others are people DH or I run into at work or social events. This is not something that happens every day, you understand.


I understand how you feel. When DH and I are together with people from our church, or at a church convention, we talk about God and the faith endlessly. It is not always easy to avoid mentioning these things when they are such a big part of my life on a daily basis.
However, I can also see the other side. Christians from denominations which are very different from mine sometimes put me in an uncomfortable position, by making statements I cannot, in good conscience, agree with, but do not want to openly dispute. We should not assume that everybody, even other Christians, hold the same doctrines, and it is rude to constantly insert our own creed into the general conversation, in a situation where others could not challenge it without being rude in return.
I can even identify with people feeling uneasy with remarks about how much I love God, what God means to my life, etc. It is too personal and emotional to share in most circumstances. Also, to be blunt (and I apologize, but I this is where I think a lot of the problem lies) there are different tolerance levels for emotional declarations on any subject, and some devout people can become embarrassingly maudlin. Some of us are reserved about spiritual matters, especially with strangers. Imagine being stuck in a conversation with somebody who won't stop mentioning how gorgeous his wife is and what a great sex life they have, and you probably get the idea. Yes, we are living in a secular society, and non-religious people should, maybe, be more tolerant; but we also have to consider things from the other person's perspective, and learn to filter!

I agree. I really don't want to cause an offense between another believer and me. The body of Christ is supposed to be one, but anytime i get into doctrinal differences it is apparent that I am not one with them. I have found that it is better to focus on Christ and fellowship about Him.

And I definitely wouldn't go on and on about the Lord if there was even a hint of discomfort for the other party. That's just pushy

[Grace and Granola]

I am a born-again christian, believe Jesus is the only way....conservative by most standards, though socio-politically can be found on both side of the divide!

I have no problem chatting with a person from any walk of life. If that's what you mean by "getting to know." I am highly interested in other cultures and wonder about other religions.

My problem with getting to know people beyond chatting lies with two things that make up the core of who I am. First, my christianity. As others mentioned, if I were to meet someone on the street and it came up that I was a christian, I would instantly wonder if that person is judging ME, as being preachy, intolerant, judgmental, holier-than-thou. On the other hand, my "crunchiness" is equally less tolerated by many people who see that as another freakish quality! I tread very lightly on those crunchy topics, until I see if that person is judgmental in that way.

We moved to a new city almost three years ago. We were truly fortunate to find a church that we loved right off the bat. It is filled with people our age with young kids like us, so honestly, those are my only friends in this city. Aside from one neighbor we met who is Mormon, and each of us has no problem with one another's religious views as it pertains to being friends. That said, in a relatively conservative area of the country, my crunchy side has kept me from forging very many deep friendships, because my christian friends think I'm a bit "out there" because of the tiny bit of crunchiness I let them see. And also, I can't be truly myself around them because I can't talk about we don't vax, practice natural health, nutrition, etc. And I honestly believe this has nothing to do with them being judgmental christians, and more to do with them being mainstream America.

All in all, I think feeling judged in any way keeps me from connecting moreso than the judgment (if any) that I feel towards a person. Sure, I can think your world view is off the wall, (and thereby judge you), but that would NOT keep me from being your friend. and I would never outwardly make a person feel bad for what they believe.

Rambling...sorry...it is a very interesting question!

[weliveintheforest]

In a way, religion does hold me back from getting to know people, especially recently. I am in this kind of strange place where my path has changed significantly in the last 2 years, and it is really hard to explain to people. Becoming more conservative makes it hard for me to open my mouth sometimes, because I want to be PC, and people often don't really get to know me.