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Do you ever lie about your childs age? - Page 6

post #101 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all. Yes I know this is really stretching things and maybe a bad train of thought to take, I guess I just feel that many places aren't "family friendly" unless you only have 2 or 3 kids. If you have 4+ kids, you're screwed. All the library passes are for 2 adults, 2 kids... all the family memberships are for a family of 4-5... I see why my parents lied about ages occasionally. I don't see how it hurts to fudge things a few days or weeks in one direction or the other.
I see how you've arrived at your conclusion but what if I only have one child? Then it's not okay to lie? Or what if I decide to bring 3 friends? Then I can lie?

In all honesty I'm not that impressed with your justification here. Not to be harsh but if you choose to have a large family then yes, admission will cost more for your large family. I'm not really sure why you want the other people paying to subsidize them. You look at it as otherwise they wouldn't get your money and maybe that's the case - or maybe they would staff differently or something else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I also have trouble with this because the waters have never been muddy at all for me or my family. This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...
See to me...your parents taught you to lie and not pay full admission, and now you're repeating the pattern. I personally believe in going the other way. I'm not picking on you, just saying that this is how I read it - that you are repeating the dishonesty you witnessed as a child.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
You are definitely lucky!! In my area the COL is pretty high & just paying gas & parking to visit somewhere like a museum can eat up any "extra" money we may have had, never mind the actual admission... and the library passes are reduced price not free (so the aquarium, for ex., still costs $22/pp admission with a pass)!!! I wish they had more free/cheap things, luckily we like to hike hehee...
Museum and zoo and science centre admission is a lot here (Toronto) and we either get a year membership or we go to free festivals and things. But yes we have lots of those, plenty of cool things to do. But totally if we were having to go to higher priced things it would be expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

P.S. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate with this post, like I said, just thinking things through etc., not trying to condone stealing/lying or anything!!
Yes, but to me an admission price is not a "rule." It's a PRICE. It's like trying to scam a store to get something cheaper.

When it comes to an activity where there's an age limit which I think was the original question I do agree there's possibly a greyer area. And certainly I think if you have a health issue you should eat, either in a washroom or outside or inside if you're sure you understand the reason they've asked for food not to be brought in.
post #102 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
But you just said that there was a period of time when it was free or low cost. If it took you an hour to drive there, and money is an issue, why didn't you call before going?

I think that lying to avoid paying is straight out theft. It's a terrible example to show children.

I dont own a car. I checked the website obviously, and it said Fridays were pay as you wish. That is why, having planned this for a long time, we went on Friday.
I overlooked that is said 'AFTER 3PM', which in winter makes it not worthwhile as the place closes at 4h30.

It was also pouring rain, so no turning back.

I still think they should give more time to children whose parents dont have money. Most places make one day a week pay as you wish. They could make one day a month 'pay as you wish', so that for those of us where money is tight, we can chose to go on that day.


My kids didnt hear what i said.
Maya
post #103 of 133
Crunchy_Mommy - When people choose to have larger families, they choose the expenses that come with that. I don't understand the logic here - so it's ok to lie and get reduced admission because otherwise your large family wouldn't attend? So what about those of us with small families ... if we bring 3 guests, is it then ok to fudge on ages to save admission? And the bottom line really comes down to honesty here - you feel you are justified in lying to get in cheaper. I feel it's morally wrong. I also feel your parents taught you it was ok when you were younger, now you feel it's ok to do with your own family - and that's exactly why I feel it's an important lesson to teach my children about honesty.

It's not the end of the world or the issue I want to spend all day talking about. I think it really comes down to core values - and ours are obviously just different.
post #104 of 133
OT
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.
Thankyou. Most places do offer opportunities for low income families to participate. I think its the mark of a civilized society.

Actually, our CM isnt quite so generous. But if your child goes to headstart they get a cool culture pass (which excludes the major zoo and aquarium), but gives access to many places including the CM. Yo have to have a pass though.
post #105 of 133
I just don't get the opinion that museums, zoo's etc should have a 'pay what you want' day. Sure, it would be generous and very nice .. but what if it's not financially possible? I really think many programs simply can not afford to do that once a week!

And while I think it would be nice if more places would do things like that once a month or so, if they can, it also seems kinda entitled to me to expect it, or get irritated about it.

We are far from a rich family!! We work hard and sacrifice to have luxuries like sending ds to science camp and being members of the museum ... no matter how hard times are for us, I don't feel that they owe us anything. I just don't get that attitude.
post #106 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhf View Post
Come on, honestly? Aquariums are expensive to operate. The price of admission is not there to exclude low income children, it's to cover operating expenses.
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)
post #107 of 133
Food and health care are human rights, in my opinion, or they should be. Going to the aquarium, while a nice thing to do, doesn't fall into that category.

So, for those who thing it's okay to lie to save money - do you extend this to other areas in your life? Like, if you were buying some bulk food items at the store and organic lentils cost twice what the non-organic ones cost, would you feel justified in marking your bag of organic lentils with the bin number of the non-organic ones, because your children deserve to eat organic food, too, even though you can't afford it?

A better examples, maybe: if, say, the person taking tickets at the door to a movie or theatrical show stepped away for a few minutes, would you feel okay about going in without a ticket to see the show without paying? Assume that the show isn't going to sell out and otherwise you feel you can't afford the tickets, so it's not like the theater will be making less money because you're there without paying. Is this also morally okay for some of you?

I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.
post #108 of 133
I am a mum of many and if we can't afford to go somewhere we don't go. I think my kids can still have a wonderful time without spending large amounts of money. Not long ago I made a list of free/cheap things to do in my city and I was amazed how long the list was and it only took a few minutes of research on the internet.

For the more expensive activities we save up and go every two or three years and we take out own lunches to save money.
post #109 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
.what 3 or 4 year old do you know who stands right close to you, can hear you talking to the cashier whilst you 'lie' about their age to get in free (and understand all of that?)
Mine! No way would I have gotten away with that with my kids. They have supernatural hearing and both new their ages and birthdates by the time they were 3. Heck, at 3, dd knew her birthdate, her brother's birthdate and my exact age. (This is also the kid who plans her birthday party 6 months in advance!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay.
They're losing the money they pay to keep the utilities going, to staff the place, the money for cleaning, repair of wear and tear, and rent/mortgage. Just because you aren't consuming anything doesn't mean it doesn't cost money to run.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us.
They also don't have to provide staff for you, clean the restrooms after you, replace things that wear out because you and your child are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Nope, and I'm in my 40s. I count my change and give back extra (when I get change). I've eaten the money I paid for dd's shoes last year that she wore once (you can't tell) and then outgrew. I could have returned them to Target as new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter?
No, I don't think anyone does this. I've been known to go a few miles an hour over the speed limit.

But when I was at fault in an accident recently, I admitted it was my inattention that caused it. I didn't go to court to get my ticket reduced. I was guilty. That was a painful $287 that could well have been used to good purpose for our family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.
that is the crux of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all.
But the thing is, for most museums and things, it costs more than $10 a person to run the place and pay for staff. So they ARE losing money.

I too grew up in a family with 5 kids. My parents never lied about our ages. We didn't go nearly as many places as my kids have been. Never went to amusement parks. Never went to the children's museum (I don't even know if they had one then). I remember going to the zoo once or twice, and that was when it was new and 1/2 of my sibs were out of the house. Vacations were camping. We never stayed at hotels. We swam in the lake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick.
that's different -- that's a medical condition that requires you to eat. That's different from me eating. I'm not hypoglycemic. I just get really cranky when I'm hungry. Should I also eat discretely? I choose to go out and come back.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.
But in order to break them, you need to understand how things work and why the rules are in place. Why does the children museum charge for kids over 1? What does it really cost per patron? Why is there no parking in front of the museum, when just stopping there for a little bit 'wouldn't hurt'.

I don't buy the slippery slope argument either, for adults, but I think that we are kidding ourselves that by lying, it's completely benign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post
Food and health care are human rights, in my opinion, or they should be. Going to the aquarium, while a nice thing to do, doesn't fall into that category. <snip>

I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.
[/quote]

. Well said.

For those who live in high COL areas where there isn't great community support of arts and museums, I'm sorry. But instead of sneaking in, what about working to remedy that situation? Target sponsors free entrance to our children's museum once a month. Is it packed? You bet. But it's better than not being able to go.
post #110 of 133
In the situation described by the original poster, I don't see a problem with this. It sounds like these were more guidelines to help the parents make a decision about the appropriateness of the activity rather than a firm rule about who could participate.

There are a lot of activities here where they require a child to be above a certain age to be a part of it because the parent is not staying and supervising. So in situations like that, I wouldn't lie, and if the 4-6 activity was crowded with children, I'd most likely let that child have our space if necessary, but in general I don't see this as a problem.
post #111 of 133
I'm surprised people think it's justifiable to lie about a child's age to get them in for free someplace. My understanding is that they have "under 3 free" rules because toddler and babies are often just along for the ride, and it wouldn't be right to charge for a baby asleep in a stroller, so they come up with a number beyond which it's safe to say the child is actively participating (age dependent upon what age level the place is designed for). But for kids of an age where they are absolutely actively participating, it seems only right that they pay. It is in no way comparable to health care or food stamps, which the government disperses to help people who would have trouble with survival otherwise. An aquarium is not something people need to survive.
post #112 of 133
I agree with posters who pointed out that food and health care are essentials and people are entitled to government assistance if they can't otherwise meet their needs. That's pretty basic to a well-functioning society. However, I also include education along with those other essentials. In fairness, I think some attractions - aquariums, zoos, museums, art galleries, nature reserves - serve an educational purpose. It's important that they remain accessible to everyone. Particularly if they are receiving public funding (ie taxpayer dollars). However, I believe that "pay what you like/can" days and subsidized programs for underprivileged children serve this need.

If they aren't accessible, and the venue ought to offer more pay-what-you-can days or similar programs, then it's an issue to be taken up with the venue and government representatives. Just like we don't get to decide the price of food in the supermarket or the fee for a health care professional - or which costs we will or will not pay - we don't get to decide the admission fees for a venue.
post #113 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.
I DO give back extra change. I've corrected sales people before when they charge me too little for something, even though yeah, that hurt a little at the time. It's a two way street to me - if I'm willing to say something about being overcharged, then I need to be willing to say something about being undercharged. As for my age, I've never been in the habit of lying about it. I've always looked younger, and it's never been an issue, though I can't imagine that being something important enough to me to ever want to lie about anyway. Honestly for me it has nothing to do with "following the rules". LOL I'm half of the opinion that many rules in this world were put into place by people with nothing better to do. However, for our family it is about acting in an honorable manner. Are there situations in which we would lie? Certainly there are. In your example about vax status, our first priority is the safety and well being of our family, and if keeping our children safe meant lying about their status then you bet we would. But let's be honest here, situations where our family's safety is truely at risk are very rare in our world, and those would certainly be exceptional instances. For a situation that may make things "uncomfortable", no then, we don't lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.
Well first off I think businesses have to accomodate medical issues by law, though I may be mistaken on that. I'm sure if you went to management and explained the situation most would be happy to make allowances for it to be honest. But again, it's not about rules, it's about doing what is right and honorable. A lot of times that goes with following the rules, but not always. Living isn't an auto-pilot program, it acutally requires some independent thought and the ability to recognize when to ask, when to follow and when to dissent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post
I guess to be this is about being an honorable person, about doing the right thing even when no one will know. If a business or foundation chooses to charge a certain amount for a service, I think that's well within their rights to do so, and I don't see how that becomes a sort of "Let's sneak in and stick it to The Man" sort of thing, again unless we're talking about basic human rights issues.... and we're not. Aquariums are not entitlements. Disneyland is not an entitlement.
Well said. We've been lucky in that we've been able to take our kids to things that some of their friends haven't gone to. Anyone who has seen me around here knows that we are FAR from well off. Quite strapped actually. We don't lie and fudge to get in places, we save until we have the money or find alternatives or watch for special deals to get admissions. For us, taking the kids places is a higher priority than it is for some of their peers parents, and that's just the way life works. I really think that if you were to have this discussion with people from a truely impoverished area (Africa, Haiti, etc.) they would probably be amazed by how much "more" as a society we keep wanting.
post #114 of 133
Nah, my kids are very young.

I haven't read this whole discussion either.

I know my parents lied about our ages. I remember going to the waterpark (or something like one) and my mother told them I was seven, and I very angrily said "No, I'm eight!" And I'm pretty sure she ended up spending more money.
post #115 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)
I suppose it does "exclude" them, yes. The cost of a brand new BMW also "excludes" low income families in that sense. Is that not fair? Does everyone who wants one deserve a brand new BMW? Or at least to drive one for free once a month? Comparing food and health care to visiting an attraction is truly ridiculous, so I won't comment further on that.
post #116 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)


Food and healthcare are apples and oranges to museums and other fun places to visit.
I think it is very generous that these places offer things like pay as you wish and should be appreciated even if it isn't in a time frame that you(general) feel is acceptable. Because just as families are struggling in this economy so are businesses. So yeah more people should be grateful rather then have an entitlement attitude. People chose to have kids, with kids come expenses. Doing things like CM and aquariums and like places are not a need but a I would like to do type thing. So no they should not have to alter their prices or anything like that to meet the needs of low income families.
post #117 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post
But it does exclude them.
Do you apply the same logic to food stamps or healthcare? (shouldnt ask really)
I don't feel excluded by admission prices nor do I support a sliding scale admission concept. It would be a pain to have to bring proof of income and expenses everywhere in order to get into an establishment. Prices are the same across the board whether you are buying food (a necessity) or admission to a concert or museum (wants). We save up to go somewhere fun, it may take us longer to save up than it would another family but that doesn't mean that we don't have that option. There are also a lot of places in our area that offer year long memberships at dirt cheap prices and there are city funded options to many activities that offer scholarships for low-income families. I don't think economic status is an excuse for lying to get a want met. I also don't like to see people assuming that low-income families feel entitled to lie to get what they want. I don't lie and I my friends don't either and I don't feel that I am owed anything by society or businesses. I new I was going to have to scrimp and make sacrifices until I could graduate and get a good job when I chose to go through with my pregnancy. The museum had nothing to do with me having a child.
post #118 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Especially when it's like:

Waiter: Do you get the senior discount?
50 year old: No, I'm only 50.
Waiter: Are you *sure*? (looking at the 50 year old like they're suspecting senility has set in)
And then you have people like me who go out to dinner with their dad (who's being a big butt because that's how he is ) and I ask the waiter, "Aren't you going to ask him if he qualifies for the senior citizen discount?" Which he doesn't yet, but it's my personal torture for him to remind him of that every chance I can get.



As for the OP.... If lying is not a trait I would desire to have in my child, why would I place myself in hypocritical shoes?
post #119 of 133
I never have. I definitely would never do it to save money. Thats just WRONG and thats not how I think of it. I dont expect for my child to get in anywhere or do anything for free. When I do go to a buffet or event where she is free its a bonus. I get really excited b/c I wasnt really expecting it and I dont feel its owed to me like some people here seem to.

I think people who will lie to get things for free just dont appreciate the fact that their kid ever ate/got in for free. Its just greedy and ungrateful. You arent looking at the big picture like the fact that if people keep abusing it the company will no longer be able to afford to offer it. Do you think they ever owed it to you for your kid to get in free? It was a nice, considerate bonus. DONT abuse it so no one ever gets that privilege again.

The age limits for free things arent stupid or arbitrary. The organization wants to be nice and offer free admission to children who are too young to eat much or get much enjoyment out of the experience and who are probably just along for the ride. They have to draw the line somewhere.
post #120 of 133
I have never lied to save money, but on a recent flight when they called for families with children under 5 to pre-board, I was right there in line with my 5.5 year old.
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