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Do you ever lie about your childs age? - Page 5

post #81 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.
Yes, and in my town you can get a special library pass that lets you visit all the main attractions for free.

I used to live in Atlanta and the attractions there often had free Thursday mornings.
post #82 of 133
I've never outright lied, but I have just not corrected (i.e. when the zoo charged us the 6-and-under price when she was already 7, without even asking), and sometimes, we've flat-out ignored age restrictions, when we're reasonable sure nobody would care.

Once, we took my stepdaughter to a citywide easter egg hunt a few years ago, when she was 5, and her best friend was 7--we let her hunt in the 6-10 group so (a) she could do so with her best friend and (b) she wouldn't trample the toddlers in the 5-and-under group. Nobody minded that (and I'm sure some of the toddler parents preferred it). To me, the age limits seemed more for guidance and ability grouping than actual hard-and-fast rules.
post #83 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinuviel_k View Post
"I am pretend six years old!"[/I]she proclaimed loudly, looking over at me with pride for having remembered what age she was supposed to be.
Do you ever just think, "why even try?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
the Children's Museum here offers $1 admission to families with WIC or Medicaid. It's also located in a poorer neighborhood and gives free memberships to families within 8 blocks.
That is AWESOME. It would be great if there was a "give a $" jug at Children's Museums to subsidize low income entries!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Especially when it's like:

Waiter: Do you get the senior discount?
50 year old: No, I'm only 50.
Waiter: Are you *sure*? (looking at the 50 year old like they're suspecting senility has set in)
That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
post #84 of 133
Like others have mentioned, lying to save admission is stealing in our book. Also, it's, um a lie, and something I try to avoid (though I've told some whoppers in the past, I can't say I haven't, but we're trying hard to leave that in the past).

As for events with age restrictions, more often than not if you just ask, it's not a big deal! A couple of times I've had to let the head of a program see my kids to determine if they felt they were mature enough or whatever, and I'm good with that. Rarely they will still say no. And you know what? When I've seen the class or session or whatever in action I realize that they were usually correct. If I think a cutoff is arbitrary and unfair or whatever, then I'd rather my children see me going through the correct channels to address it, not watch me circumvent it instead. And the children's menu? Really? That's something places actually enforce the ages on? I've never seen that happen! But, if that's the case I'd probably ask the manager about it, and if they wouldn't budge I'd either leave or order something and not go back again. With the economy and the way a lot of restaurants are hurting right now, I'd be surprised if that rule still stands in many places when it may mean the difference between a sale or not.
post #85 of 133
Another one who is shocked at how many people have said they would lie about their child's age. I wouldn't and haven't, even when my daughter was two years and three days and the cut-off was two to get in free. And lying to get a cheaper admission is stealing. Whether it is Disney or a mom-and-pop place, stealing is stealing.
post #86 of 133
I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?

I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't cheat me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.
post #87 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?

I had (but lost) a whole long response about the problems of comparing fixed-cost (building, installations etc.) intensive ventures with variable-cost (raw materials and labour) intensive ventures. The bottom line (and it's all about the financial bottom line) is that a group that has to pay substantial amounts just to open their doors will need every revenue dollar it can generate to make it a worthwhile effort. That's why airlines and vacation resorts offer last-minute sales just to get bums in seats, and why family rates exist for attractions like museums etc. That pricing structure is up to the business, though, not the customer. You can use it as a rationalization for lying, but those are also the sort of rationalizations in "creative accounting" that led to Enron and all sorts of other financial headaches and heartaches.

I won't re-type it all, but I'll just say that while a parent who lies about a child's age for reduced admission is NOT the moral equivalent of the financial executives who played fast and loose with corporations, it is part of the same attitude and approach to business and life that make these news stories repeat year after year.


Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)
I won't pretend that I've never lied about anything. I tell social lies ALL THE TIME. I can't think of a situation where I would lie about money though. Perhaps if we were in financial difficulty and it meant the difference between feeding my family and not.

I don't lie about my age because I honestly have trouble remembering it. Just last week someone was saying that they didn't think I looked old enough to have a child who was almost finished high school. I'm almost 50 (47), and I think I look my age. I had to do a quick calculation before I could tell her my age though - for a minute, I was thinking that I had already turned 48.

I use a debit card for almost all purchases over $10, so change isn't usually something I worry about. I don't count it.

As I posted upthread a while ago, my concerns about lying about age aren't just about whether it's stealing. I think that it sets a bad example for children who will one day be tempted to lie themselves about their age - to get into bars, to buy alcohol and cigarettes, etc. If a parent has consistently lied for their personal benefit, then how can they object if the child does it as well?
post #88 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebunny View Post
Another one who is shocked at how many people have said they would lie about their child's age. I wouldn't and haven't, even when my daughter was two years and three days and the cut-off was two to get in free. And lying to get a cheaper admission is stealing. Whether it is Disney or a mom-and-pop place, stealing is stealing.
Although it does rankle me when others do it, I take this same approach. When dd#1 was almost two, we flew to Canada for her grandfather's wedding. She was a few days under two on the flight there, turned two while we were there, and flew back like the day after her 2nd bd. I asked the airline about her being a lap baby (under two) and they said that I had to pay airfare both ways if she would be two for any leg of the trip. She was (and is) small & I could have passed her off as under two, but we wound up paying for her airfare and getting her her own seat.
post #89 of 133
Crunchy_Mommy - I believe that when you lie for reduced price admissions, you do hurt the bottom line. It may be much less obvious at Disneyworld vs. a Mom & Pop run museum, but the truth is that it does make a difference.

I think about our local science museum where ds is at a spring break camp right now. We are members and get reduced fees on camps, etc ... I also get to see first hand how often they have to ask for donations and hold fundraisers to keep the place open. I know every dollar counts in that place. Our local zoo is the same way .. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that is the norm for many children's museums, aquariums, zoo's, etc ... they are expensive to run, have wonderful children's programs and usually NEED all the admissions they collect plus donations to run successfully.

Also, I have never lied about my age. I'm 34 .. I'm not perfect and sure I've told some whoppers in my day. But I really, really TRY my best to be honest in everything I do. It's what feels right to me.

I usually use my debit card so I don't need to count change. But I've noticed if something wasn't rung up and told the cashier .. like at Whole Foods a few weeks ago, the cashier thought I had brought my own bags when in fact I had put them in my cart to purchase them in the store. She didn't ring them up, and I had her scan them and run my card again. I could have gotten away with it, but that is stealing.
post #90 of 133
Quote:
I won't re-type it all, but I'll just say that while a parent who lies about a child's age for reduced admission is NOT the moral equivalent of the financial executives who played fast and loose with corporations, it is part of the same attitude and approach to business and life that make these news stories repeat year after year.
Well said. When you (general you) start to believe that situational stealing (say admission to Disneyland), or age related stealing (saying he is under 12 when he is not), or stealing a little bit (say getting a dollar too much back) is ok, I think it is a very slippery slope both for us as individuals and for our children.

When it comes to stealing I truly believe in following a no exceptions rule because the waters get muddy awfully fast.

Quote:
I'm not perfect and sure I've told some whoppers in my day. But I really, really TRY my best to be honest in everything I do. It's what feels right to me.
As have I. And like the PP mentioned it just feels right. I really try hard to be honest and forthright in my day to day life because I think it is critical to teach out children these same values.
post #91 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
I've been thinking about this a lot since I saw it yesterday. I consider myself to have a pretty sound moral compass, yet for some reason I have a hard time seeing any problem in exaggerating my child's age for free/reduced admission. I guess my theory is this: If I were to visit somewhere with non-consumable resources (i.e. museum etc. where there are no actual measurable per-person "costs" to the venue) then they are not "losing" anything if my child doesn't pay. If we can't afford it & the alternative is to stay home, then the venue is losing out on the $$ my husband & I would have paid. So instead of getting, say, $10/pp & kid free, they are getting NOTHING from us. I guess that's why it's hard for me to see it as stealing. I'm not rationalizing it or trying to convince anyone else to do it -- I'm just trying to think this through out loud. I'm actually shocked that so many people see a problem with it. Now, consumable resources (a meal, an activity that costs the venue a specific amount per person, etc.) I feel are a totally different issue & I would not lie in that situation. I also wouldn't lie if my child wasn't very very close to the cut-off. In fact, the one time I lied about DS being 12 months not 13, I honestly don't even know if he was 12 months 30 days or 13 months 1 day. And does 0-12 months mean UNDER 12 months or up to 12 months 31 days?

I'm also curious whether those of you that would never lie, would lie about your own age to appear younger etc? (I would not, I see no reason to, but then again, I'm still in my 20's!)
Do you always count your change & give back any extra? (I don't count unless it's more than a dollar or two, but I also don't check to make sure they didn't gip me. I figure it all evens out eventually & I don't have time to count change or go back to the cashier over $0.25... which is also why I usually use a credit card But larger amounts I would count & def. give back any extra)
Do you follow every other "rule" to the letter? Are there other circumstances where you WOULD fudge the truth, maybe vax status or a personal situation or something else where telling the truth might put your family at risk? (I have had several situations where I may have mentally thought up a lie "just in case" though I've never had to actually do it & not sure I could if it came down to it)

I'm just curious, this is a really interesting & thought-provoking thread for me, and I am reconsidering my belief that it's OK to lie about my child's age. I grew up with my parents doing that constantly so I never really questioned it.
I personally believe that one of the best values I can teach my child is "if you can't afford it, don't buy it." That goes for credit cards but it also goes for lying over admission fees, choosing restaurants, etc. If we can't afford to pay according to his actual age, then we go to the park.

I realize that I am gifted with a city where there's a lot available for free, and where museums sometimes have cheap days or a free evening or whatever (and libraries have passes for families too).

And yes, I've walked back to the store to return the extra dollar in change. One time when my son was 2 he 'stole' (pretty young to get the concept) a pack of mints I didn't notice until we were home...we drove back. I was more forming the habit for myself of dealing with these things honestly and up front. The store owner gave him a cookie for free so not sure what the lesson was, but now we have a great relationship with the local grocery store owner and that is valuable to me in its own way.

I'm sure there are circumstances where I would lie, but not to save money. Or about anything you listed.

It's not my job to decide for a business owner what he or she is "really" making or "really" means by the rules.
post #92 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistymama View Post
You do the right, moral thing. Not because anyone is watching but because it's the right thing to do.
Yes. This is what I want my children to think when they get older.
post #93 of 133
I have seen it many times in this thread. Most places say 2 and under or 3 and under or whatever. So even if your child is 2 and 3 months your child is still 2. That would not be lying about their age. Its the lying when a child is 3 or 4 and someone saying well they are small for their age so pass them off as 2 or whatever to save a few bucks. That to me is lying. Not saying well they are 2 and 3 months and it says 2 and under. Because bottom line they still are 2. Adults don't go walking around saying well I am 27 and 3 months. You are 27 for the whole dang year.
post #94 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistymama View Post
I think about our local science museum where ds is at a spring break camp right now. We are members and get reduced fees on camps, etc ... I also get to see first hand how often they have to ask for donations and hold fundraisers to keep the place open. I know every dollar counts in that place. Our local zoo is the same way .. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that is the norm for many children's museums, aquariums, zoo's, etc ... they are expensive to run, have wonderful children's programs and usually NEED all the admissions they collect plus donations to run successfully.
OK so if every dollar counts & the only way my parents could take us is if they only paid for 5 out of the 6 of us, then the museum is still getting $10/pp ($50) instead of NOTHING. They aren't losing $10, they are gaining $50 because otherwise we wouldn't have gone at all. Yes I know this is really stretching things and maybe a bad train of thought to take, I guess I just feel that many places aren't "family friendly" unless you only have 2 or 3 kids. If you have 4+ kids, you're screwed. All the library passes are for 2 adults, 2 kids... all the family memberships are for a family of 4-5... I see why my parents lied about ages occasionally. I don't see how it hurts to fudge things a few days or weeks in one direction or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by betsyj View Post
Well said. When you (general you) start to believe that situational stealing (say admission to Disneyland), or age related stealing (saying he is under 12 when he is not), or stealing a little bit (say getting a dollar too much back) is ok, I think it is a very slippery slope both for us as individuals and for our children.

When it comes to stealing I truly believe in following a no exceptions rule because the waters get muddy awfully fast.
I also have trouble with this because the waters have never been muddy at all for me or my family. This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
I personally believe that one of the best values I can teach my child is "if you can't afford it, don't buy it." That goes for credit cards but it also goes for lying over admission fees, choosing restaurants, etc. If we can't afford to pay according to his actual age, then we go to the park.

I realize that I am gifted with a city where there's a lot available for free, and where museums sometimes have cheap days or a free evening or whatever (and libraries have passes for families too).
You are definitely lucky!! In my area the COL is pretty high & just paying gas & parking to visit somewhere like a museum can eat up any "extra" money we may have had, never mind the actual admission... and the library passes are reduced price not free (so the aquarium, for ex., still costs $22/pp admission with a pass)!!! I wish they had more free/cheap things, luckily we like to hike hehee...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post
It's not my job to decide for a business owner what he or she is "really" making or "really" means by the rules.
I guess I don't really believe in blindly following rules. I'm hypoglycemic, for ex., and many places have a no food/drink policy, but if I don't eat something I will get really sick. So I bring my food & eat it very neatly & discretely. There are many many many rules in place in this world & some of them are sensible while others are inconvenient or downright ridiculous. I don't believe "rules were made to be broken" but I do feel we need to understand the rules to be able to follow them or break them.

P.S. Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate with this post, like I said, just thinking things through etc., not trying to condone stealing/lying or anything!!
post #95 of 133
for the ages your kids are, and the programs you listed, I would have no qualms about picking either one, and really no need to fudge the ages.
post #96 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliabedelia View Post
I would never lie to save admission price, that is stealing.

As far as your situation, I don't really think you needed to lie. THey have no idea if you have a dh who could have watched your younger dd or taken her to the younger program. I'm sure if you just said "she's tagging along with big 5-yo brother" that would have been fine...lots of 4-6 yos are going to have younger siblings who might have to tag-along.
I've done this at our local children's museum with my baby. Their age to start paying is 1yr. Well, when she was 1yr, she was still the size of a 8-9mo, and about 7min her skill set. So, technically she was a year, but she certainly was not getting anything out of the experience that a typically developing 1yo would get.
post #97 of 133
Quote:
This seems to suggest that paying half price because your kid is 2yrs 1 day old is going to lead the family to steal food or TVs or cars...
My son is going to be two in May. He will be two until next May, when he turns three. So, for the entire next year he will be two and get to go places for free.

I am super confused where all this two years and one day stuff came from?
post #98 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by betsyj View Post
My son is going to be two in May. He will be two until next May, when he turns three. So, for the entire next year he will be two and get to go places for free.

I am super confused where all this two years and one day stuff came from?
OK now I am too. I know one poster above paid for her 2 year + a few days old to have her own plane ticket. Maybe some people (like the ticket agent) think it means up 'til age 2? I would think 'under 2' is up to the point they turn 2, and '2 years & under' would be up to the point they turn 3... Maybe some places have more ambiguous wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy2maya View Post
I've done this at our local children's museum with my baby. Their age to start paying is 1yr. Well, when she was 1yr, she was still the size of a 8-9mo, and about 7min her skill set. So, technically she was a year, but she certainly was not getting anything out of the experience that a typically developing 1yo would get.
Yup that's exactly what we did for the exact same reasons! Poor kid was too short to reach the sand table and he got mad

I will say this thread is really making me think twice about doing it in the future though (in relation to admission prices)... I really truly never gave it this much thought, I just assumed everyone did it & all venues assume you will fudge ages. It's really weird to think about it in terms of stealing but I can see how... I mean, I wouldn't hide my kid in a bag & sneak him in, so why would I lie about his age to get him in free?
post #99 of 133
I think they mean somewhere that "under 2 is free, and hence a "1 yr and 364 day old is free, but a 2 years and 1 day pays." I hear "2 and under free" or "3 and under free" more often around here.

On the kids' birthdays, I say so (FWIW, everywhere I've said that, like "She's 2 today, we came to celebrate at the aquarium!" they've told us she can come in free since it's her birthday). The next day, or week, or month, we pay. I've only fudged ages with supervisor approval (like the skiing where you have to be 4 but DD was 3 and 50 weeks, supervisor when I called before the trip said just don't tell the sales desk bc they're a little clueless).

I do look closely at the rules when buying memberships though. I had a "single adult with guest" membership to one because DS was young enough to be free, I could bring 1 "guest" each trip, which got DD in, and DH never went to that museum; the few times he did, he paid his own way. It was certainly cheaper than the family membership they tried to sell me, but it followed all their rules.
post #100 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2 View Post
That is AWESOME. It would be great if there was a "give a $" jug at Children's Museums to subsidize low income entries!
There is, but it goes to sponsoring the days they're open for free. So first Thursdays from 5-8 and MLK, Labor day, and a couple other days.

Now, where I grew up all the major kid-friendly things (children's, science, art museums and the zoo) had monthly free days. So my family'd get a membership to one and go there once or twice a week, and go to the others on their free days. Then we'd get a different membership the next year.
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