BIL married the woman he had an affair with, she’s now the new SIL, wwyd? - Page 2

[MissMommyNiceNice]

Honestly, it seems like you're holding out false hope to the new SIL. Either cut them out or let it go, but don't go on in this fake manner. She's probably got hopes that you'll forgive her or whatever. You're leading her on. If you don't want to be friends, don't. And let her know. Just because they're family doesn't mean you need to be civil to them as many other people have said. I'm sorry, no one screws me over like my family and honestly, I don't need it so i don't see them or talk to them. Whatever. You have the right to make the same choice. But don't let her live in some imagined purgatory hoping you'll forgive her someday if you're not going to. It's not fair to her or you.

[TCMoulton]

Since there is a new baby in the picture I would be civil and friendly - you don't have to forget what happened but for the sake of your nieces and nephews (who I am assuming you want to keep a relationship with).

[choli]

I think it's kind of weird to blame the new SIL for the fact that the BIL cheated. He's responsible for his own actions. Nobody can "steal" a husband, as nobody can be forced into cheating.

[EFmom]

Originally Posted by choli

I think it's kind of weird to blame the new SIL for the fact that the BIL cheated. He's responsible for his own actions. Nobody can "steal" a husband, as nobody can be forced into cheating.

Some people, myself included, think having an affair with a married person is a reprehensible thing to do in and of itself. We also think that the adulterer's behavior is reprehensible. I don't think the OP is blaming the SIL for the fact that BIL cheated. She's recognizing that SIL is the type of person who would sleep with a married man.

I don't think that being civil is holding out false hope or being phony at all. There are lots of people I'm civil and polite to, without encouraging friendship. If she's got half a brain, she'll pick up on the fact that you aren't interested in being her buddy, but you can be cordial when the occasion demands it.

[frugalmum]

First off she's not the "mistress" -- she is his wife now -- and the mother of your children's niece/nephew-- so there is no need to call her the mistress unless you mean it in spite, which you shouldn't do.

And second, she did not "steal" a husband-- chances are they fell in love very deeply, such that he was willing to leave his marriage to be with her. That is not stealing, it is falling in love. We are all human and people do fall in love, and if his first marriage was not good to begin with, it is understandable that his heart went elsewhere.

That being said, if you genuinely dislike them both as people-- apart from the fact that their relationship began in an affair-- you are not obligated to be anything more than polite to them. But you need to sit down and separate your judgment over the affair from your actual opinion of them.

[lotusdebi]

Originally Posted by frugalmum

But you need to sit down and separate your judgment over the affair from your actual opinion of them.

This confuses me. If someone lies, I consider him to be a liar. If someone steals, I consider him to be a thief. If someone kills, I consider him to be a murderer. If someone is unfaithful, I consider him to be a cheater. I judge people by their words and actions. I can't judge people by their thoughts or feelings alone since they're the only ones with the awareness of those thoughts and feelings. The ways that they express those thoughts and feelings to others would be through words and actions. Thus, my opinions of someone is formed via my interactions with them and observations of them, which are going to mainly involve their words and actions.

To me, when a person has an affair, he is saying to me that he doesn't value honesty, doesn't keep his word, and can't be trusted. When a father destroys his family in his quest for companionship or true love or whatever, that tells me that he puts himself and his desires above the needs of his children. He's not saying to me that he has fallen hopelessly in love and, like some bad romance movie, has been rendered speechless and thus unable to be honest with his wife and end the marriage before following his heart.

I'm not the OP, but I have to say that my judgment over an affair is inseparable from my judgment about the people participating in the affair.

And, again, I totally agree with EFmom.

[Olma]

OP here. I’ve been away from the boards but I wanted to come back and thank you all for your input and ideas. I feel I need to add a bit of history for the clarification and also an update.

The history: In early 2008 my niece, BIL’s DD went to his office unannounced to find her father and the now SIl, then mistress, groping each other in his office. She went back home in tears, told the mother who went bezerck on the phone with him. He came home later than night, packed a bag and went to the mistress.
Couple of months later, wife wants to reconciliate, he doesn’t and she starts the divorce papers. About then he introduces us the ‘new girlfriend’. Then, there is talk among them about custody and visitations of the children, and the first Christmas. This is when I come into the picture being asked to negotiate for him with my niece and get her to accept the situation and come to us for Christmas as he wasn’t available -- Paris trip with girlfriend (it was decided that he’ll have DD then by court). So, of course I speak up my mind, in behalf of her First , his DD feels guilty for the divorce, because she found them and told the mother. Remember, this is not his first affair and somehow, the DD knew and kept quiet about the others.(It was later confirmed by MIL, who knew as well)
Secondly, I told him that he went wrong about how he dealt with it all, that it would have made a world of difference if he moved out on his own, divorced the wife and then introduce the kids to the new one when they were ready to deal with the situation. But don’t spring so many changes on these kids in just a matter of less then 6 months. Anyway, I was asked, I talked, I was polite and decent.

Now, last year the new SIL got pregnant and they got married as soon as the divorce papers were final. And, we’re not invited to the wedding and later to the Christening. I didn’t ask why, didn’t get offended. I was just fine with how things were until last Sunday when my Mil came after me for being the reason why things are weird between DH and his brother because I dared open my mouth and defend my niece when anyone else in the family wouldn't take her side.
Basically, I don’t know where SIL is now, and I came here to clear my head and see if I need to approach her and clear this out or should I just let things cold and distant the way they are now by default.
I never criticized new SIL directly, I never said anything about how I think she was in the wrong. As far as I know it could be only MIL’s assumption.

I don’t feel I owe them anything. It would have made a world of difference in my eyes(and DH's) if they would have made a statement along the lines, we know this looks wrong but we love each other,we hurt some people and we're sorry etc. But they said nothing and somehow expected that everybody would be just fine.
DH and I were not. They showed us their true colors and we don’t care for them. Just because they got married and she is now the wife doesn't right the wrong.
This is the update bit, DH and I talked and we decided for the time being not to say or do anything. We’ll keep an open mind and things might change in the future, specially since there is the new baby, which in the end, yes, it is our niece. But, again, for the moment, it is all too soon and all too wrong to us. And MIL needs to butt off. Forgot to mention that the baby pics I got from SIL were on a list of people, not addressed to me directly. I replied with a thank you and neutral comment, she didn't answer back.

Thanks again it’s been good for me to clear my mind here.

[Labbemama]

I am wondering, since you seem very concerned about your nieces that you would have more influence over your new sil if you had some sort of relationship with her.

How is your relationship with your former sil? Are you two still close?

I guess I'm kind "old fashioned" in my values. I have had trouble accepting my new sil because she broke our house rules and in general was disrespectful to me by doing things that I don't approve of IN MY HOME without permission in front of my kids. She had a baby and they got married but she still hasn't hasn't "grown up." Other than my nephew's safety, I bite my tongue.

I protested her drinking then driving baby to dump him at Grandma's for a night of more partying. (not the partying I object to but NOT dropping off my precious nephew FIRST) and now I'm cut off even from pics of the lil guy n FB. :-( I sent her an Easter card of my kids hoping that I'll get back on the pictures list atleast.



I really did try to befriend her in the beginning but she's not the kind of person of moral fiber that I would want to hang out with or to be an influential person on my kids of what young adulthood looks like.

Your post kind of tugs at my heart though because I was married for 18 years. We are legally separated and while I'm taking care of our kids who are severely traumatized by his fatherhood of them, he's off PROUDLY sleeping with some girl who's "helping him thru his loss." Calls to brag to my family so to be sure that I know about it.

My sil though had plenty to say about me leaving my abusive ex. Rolls eyes. Even interfered by giving him our address because she didn't think it was fair I kept our kids from him. SO when we moved she didn't get our address at first but I kept FB open. Now she's de-friended me. FIne, I don't have to see how much she drank this weekend. But I do miss my nephew.
I would love it if you were my SIL. LOL Could use someone like you in my corner at the family Sunday dinner.

But usually it's everyone can act like a pack of wild dogs but I'm expected to be gracious and forgiving no matter how badly they all behave. That's pretty much it.

You're much better off just keeping to yourselves.

I second the tell mil to butt out it's between her sons and you were just informing her of what the riff was.

[Tapioca]

Olma, I don't envy you this situation.

I get that people fall 'in love' (whatever that is) and make mistakes but as adults, we also have to accept the consequences of our mistakes, no? I don't agree that you just have to accept someone acting like an a-hole just because they're now married and had a kid. Whoop de do. You still acted like an a-hole and you hurt people, including children, which is just unconscionable in my book. Those poor kids

I'm glad those first kids have someone like you in the corner, since it sounds like the MIL etc are more concerned that everyone play nice.

[Cascadian]

TBH, I don't like that attitude of some of the APs that simply now that she's 'family' through marriage, that the reprehensible behaviour should be swept under the rug. In her late 20s is NOT 'too young' to understand the ramifications of cheating with a married man, who had children. I think my 6 yr old would understand that. There are some things in life that are despicable to me - that is one of them.

Not inviting you to the wedding, etc. is also reprehensible when put in the same breath with 'her trying to make a connection'. I doubt their motivations and think that it's both political (pressure from her new MIL perhaps) and selfish (that you'll be there to care for his 16/5 yr olds when convenient).

Please continue to be an advocate for the kids - it sounds as though they REALLY need you as the voice of reason and clear headedness.

Also, what is your relationship with BIL's ex? She was a part of YOUR family for 18 years, until excommunicated by marriage.

[LROM]

OP I agree with your gut on this. The family you had the relationship with was your neice (and hopefully also nephew and previous SIL). Are you still in touch with the ex SIL? How is she doing now?

As far as BIL and new SIL, I agree with everyone else who says you should go with your gut and your own standards. There is freedom of choice in this world and your BIL and new SIL made some choices about HOW they handled their "love" (giving them the benefit of the doubt that that's what it was) that they should have predicted would upset many people, some very deeply.

Lying is always a rotten way to handle unhappiness or whatever else BIL was feeling. Cheating also rotten (a version of lying). I don't believe in actively harassing people who make choices that I disagree with, but why on earth should I act like it's all water under the bridge and make nice with them? As someone else said, they've shown their true colors and you are not obligated in any way to make nice with them just because they're family. This board is full of family members who do upsetting things and there are many situations that it's ok - some where it's necessary - to allow for distance and let the relationship go.

As for your MIL, next time she gets on you about this, ask her when the last time she talked to her granddaughter was. Ask her how she would feel if her father had had an affair, MIL had caught her father in that affair, and it had broken up her parents relationship and then her father pretty much wrote her off? Ask her how she'd feel, and why she's ok pretending that her son didn't make a choice to handle his marriage in a crappy way, that has really negatively impacted his kids?

Stop trying to answer MIL and turn the questions on her. Why is she ok with this? Why does she blame you and not BIL and new SIL for the situation? If she's so able to accept that they'd have an affair and get married this way, why is she NOT able to accept that you feel that's not ok and don't want to be around it? Why the double standard on her part?

I'd be very interested to hear her responses to some of those questions...

[Olma]

Originally Posted by Labbemama

I am wondering, since you seem very concerned about your nieces that you would have more influence over your new sil if you had some sort of relationship with her.

How is your relationship with your former sil? Are you two still close?

I guess I'm kind "old fashioned" in my values. I have had trouble accepting my new sil because she broke our house rules and in general was disrespectful to me by doing things that I don't approve of IN MY HOME without permission in front of my kids. She had a baby and they got married but she still hasn't hasn't "grown up." Other than my nephew's safety, I bite my tongue.

I protested her drinking then driving baby to dump him at Grandma's for a night of more partying. (not the partying I object to but NOT dropping off my precious nephew FIRST) and now I'm cut off even from pics of the lil guy n FB. :-( I sent her an Easter card of my kids hoping that I'll get back on the pictures list atleast.



I really did try to befriend her in the beginning but she's not the kind of person of moral fiber that I would want to hang out with or to be an influential person on my kids of what young adulthood looks like.

Your post kind of tugs at my heart though because I was married for 18 years. We are legally separated and while I'm taking care of our kids who are severely traumatized by his fatherhood of them, he's off PROUDLY sleeping with some girl who's "helping him thru his loss." Calls to brag to my family so to be sure that I know about it.

My sil though had plenty to say about me leaving my abusive ex. Rolls eyes. Even interfered by giving him our address because she didn't think it was fair I kept our kids from him. SO when we moved she didn't get our address at first but I kept FB open. Now she's de-friended me. FIne, I don't have to see how much she drank this weekend. But I do miss my nephew.
I would love it if you were my SIL. LOL Could use someone like you in my corner at the family Sunday dinner.

But usually it's everyone can act like a pack of wild dogs but I'm expected to be gracious and forgiving no matter how badly they all behave. That's pretty much it.

You're much better off just keeping to yourselves.

I second the tell mil to butt out it's between her sons and you were just informing her of what the riff was.

Labbemama, thanks for your reply. I'm sorry about your situation with your SIL. It's really sad that you can't see your nephew not even in pictures

I am not very close to my ex SIL. We weren't super close before either mainly because of the physical distance between us. I talked to her more during the divorce, she was very hurt as you can imagine. Now I think it's too painful for her to talk to me because I'm still part of the family. I'm also an introvert and keep a lot to myself and I don't go chasing after people to be my friends if they are not opening up to me first. Kinda hard to explain. Not in so many words, it's per her choice that we talk very rarely and I just let her be.

My older niece is now in college on a scholarship. She is a very, very bright girl who fought very hard during all the drama to keep her excellent grades in high school to make the scholarship, just so that she could be away from it all.
We see our nephew when we go home, we will arrange for him to come visit when he's a bit older.

The baby niece, I don't know, somehow I have a feeling new SIL won't let me be much of anything in the little one's life.

I am more and more at peace with my/our decision to keep to ourselves in this. We have a lot going on for our family as it is without MIL adding to the stress with her guilt trips.
Thanks again for your thoughts.

[Olma]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I get that people fall 'in love' (whatever that is) and make mistakes but as adults, we also have to accept the consequences of our mistakes, no? I don't agree that you just have to accept someone acting like an a-hole just because they're now married and had a kid. Whoop de do. You still acted like an a-hole and you hurt people, including children, which is just unconscionable in my book. Those poor kids

Tapioca, yes, thanks, that's exactly how I feel. I don't care how miserable BIL was in the first marriage, how they 'fell in love', etc as I care about how they went about it. And the kids are going to have to live with this the rest of their lives, where he and new wife, have moved on already.

[alaskaberry]

Just be nice and polite to her...you don't have to be her best friend. And if BIL cheats on her for a younger model in 10 years, don't be snarky about it.

[Olma]

Originally Posted by Cascadian

Not inviting you to the wedding, etc. is also reprehensible when put in the same breath with 'her trying to make a connection'. I doubt their motivations and think that it's both political (pressure from her new MIL perhaps) and selfish (that you'll be there to care for his 16/5 yr olds when convenient).


Also, what is your relationship with BIL's ex? She was a part of YOUR family for 18 years, until excommunicated by marriage.

It's funny how I didn't see it this way before, but yes, not inviting us to the wedding should be reprehensible, at least in my MIL's eyes, if she wants to treat us both 'fairly'. Which, MIL I doubt she's capable of doing. She always favored BIL over DH, BIL is the apple of her eye so to speak and she's taking his side once again.

As I mentioned in my reply to Labbemama, ex-SIL are not very close as we never been, due to the physical distance between us. Plus since DH and his brother don't really get along well, we just didn't get a chance to bond very closely. I think I talked to her more during the divorce than all together during their marriage (we were SILs for 10 years, they got married 8 years before us) I think she still has a hard time dealing with everything and it might be painful to her to talk to me since I am part of the family.

What really got to me apart from the cheating etc and made me even more compassionate toward her and their kids is that MIL never liked her, always had something negative to comment about her. And MIL was just so relieved when she heard of the divorce, was so quick to excommunicate her as you said, that I got really annoyed. What are we, disposable wives, if we no longer fit the profile, out to the curb with us?
First SIL and BIL got married when very young. She worked and put him thorough college, was there to take care of the kids so that he could advance his carrier. While she worked full time. And then, she's too uneducated, un-elegant and unsophisticated for his high position at work and she's no longer suited. And it's her fault for not keeping up. That's my MIL take on it. Ugh, my MIL, I could go on and on.

[Olma]

Originally Posted by LROM

As for your MIL, next time she gets on you about this, ask her when the last time she talked to her granddaughter was. Ask her how she would feel if her father had had an affair, MIL had caught her father in that affair, and it had broken up her parents relationship and then her father pretty much wrote her off? Ask her how she'd feel, and why she's ok pretending that her son didn't make a choice to handle his marriage in a crappy way, that has really negatively impacted his kids?

Stop trying to answer MIL and turn the questions on her. Why is she ok with this? Why does she blame you and not BIL and new SIL for the situation? If she's so able to accept that they'd have an affair and get married this way, why is she NOT able to accept that you feel that's not ok and don't want to be around it? Why the double standard on her part?

I'd be very interested to hear her responses to some of those questions...

You know, very interesting fact with my MIL that I somehow forgot. DH mentioned to me long time ago that MIL's father used to cheat on his wife, that the wife knew about it but kept quiet. If my DH knew, the grandson, then I am pretty sure MIL knew as well and she somehow grew up to believe it is ok, just how life works some time. Maybe this is where she is coming from and why she is quick to make nice.

But yeah, the double standard.Not the first time to see it unfortunately. BIL is MIL's favorite son and she'll always take his side. Deep down she must know that her favorite is in the wrong here and probably that's why she's projecting her guilt on me and DH. She is known not to have a good grip on reality too.

I'll give it a rest now. DH and I we're clear on what we will do, even if it means MIL getting upset with us.

[Olma]

Originally Posted by alaskaberry

Just be nice and polite to her...you don't have to be her best friend. And if BIL cheats on her for a younger model in 10 years, don't be snarky about it.

I promise

[scottishmommy]

I would have little to do with either one of these people. Having an affair and then getting a divorce is not cool in my book. If you want to get divorced and [I]then[I]start dating someone else go right ahead. But you don't cheat and then leave once you get caught. If I were the op I would be civil, but I wouldn't pursue any sort of relationship.