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cod liver (A/D mercola controversy) question - Page 2

post #21 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post
The PCBs weren't found in all brands. Google it and you can find a link of the brands tested. GP was not tested so I don't know about it. Nordic Naturals and Carlsons tested PCB free but many other brands had it...Scary.
but my issue with it was more:

given cod liver oil has pcbs (as all northern atlantic cod do except for a few very small populations- i'll have to find the article).

how much is it processed to remove these?

how much does the processing change or damage the oils?

it wasn't just which brands process their oils enough to remove it.
post #22 of 74
subbing:
post #23 of 74
Who was it that contacted Dave during that huge, long discussion we had about CLO & asked him to respond? I'd love to hear what Dave says about PCBs in his product. I could ask, but I wonder if whoever contacted him before would like to?
post #24 of 74
Thread Starter 
Subbing--

I'd love to hear the answer to the GP purity question. It has always been my main reservation to doing the fermented CLO--Since it is not refined to remove toxics like other CLO's because it is fermented and a whole food (which is wonderful in itself and if we lived in a toxic free world it would surely be my preferred CLO). And also I have never read anything on their website about third party testing for heavy metals, PCBs, etc, so I felt that I couldn't be sure if it did or didn't contain them like I am with NN--KWIM? Toxics (and avoidance of them) are a huge focus in my life.
post #25 of 74
subbing
post #26 of 74
Thread Starter 
Did anyone else make any calls yet?
post #27 of 74
Wow......there's always something! So frustrating!!!
post #28 of 74
Thread Starter 
Well, I called again and spoke to Nanette Ruggerio who was an amazingly educated rep. SHe is very familiar with Mercola, his new recommendations, as well as WPF/NT and Green Pastures CLO.

She told me the following points to summarize:
-NN is in control of the whole production of their CLO from catch to bottle. There are never synthetics added at any point. The A (from the cod liver) is added back from the actual cod liver itself after it is put through the molecular distillation process tom remove all contaminants (which is very rigorous and results in very pure toxin free oil.) The D on the other hand gets damaged in the distillation process. So keeping with trying to make their oils as simple as possible, they do not add any D from other sources into their normal CLO product. They have an "Arctic-D" CLO which has 1000IU of D3 from sheep lanolin (which is the best source of non synthetic D) for those who want it. So the consumer can choose between the 2 CLOs. But neither have any synthetics.

She also was very familiar with Green Pastures CLO and researched it in the past (as she has read Nourishing Traditions/WPF stuff and is very interested in TF!) She had similar concerns to myself regarding how the toxins in the cod livers can be filtered out if the oil is fermented and whole food. She wrote to Dave and never heard anything back from him. She said that she feels that the FCLO would be the best choice for people if we lived 100+ years ago and did not have the ocean pollution that we have today. She would have suggested NN made a FCLO if there was a way they could still be assured that there is no contamination from heavy metals, PCBs, etc. But in this day and age purity is their biggest concern so they have to process the oil by distillation to remove contaminants.

As far as Mercola, she sent me the NN company's rebuttal statement. I haven't had time to read it yet but I will summarize it for you if anyone is still interested later!
post #29 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post
Well, I called again and spoke to Nanette Ruggerio who was an amazingly educated rep. SHe is very familiar with Mercola, his new recommendations, as well as WPF/NT and Green Pastures CLO.

She told me the following points to summarize:
-NN is in control of the whole production of their CLO from catch to bottle. There are never synthetics added at any point. The A (from the cod liver) is added back from the actual cod liver itself after it is put through the molecular distillation process tom remove all contaminants (which is very rigorous and results in very pure toxin free oil.) The D on the other hand gets damaged in the distillation process. So keeping with trying to make their oils as simple as possible, they do not add any D from other sources into their normal CLO product. They have an "Arctic-D" CLO which has 1000IU of D3 from sheep lanolin (which is the best source of non synthetic D) for those who want it. So the consumer can choose between the 2 CLOs. But neither have any synthetics.

She also was very familiar with Green Pastures CLO and researched it in the past (as she has read Nourishing Traditions/WPF stuff and is very interested in TF!) She had similar concerns to myself regarding how the toxins in the cod livers can be filtered out if the oil is fermented and whole food. She wrote to Dave and never heard anything back from him. She said that she feels that the FCLO would be the best choice for people if we lived 100+ years ago and did not have the ocean pollution that we have today. She would have suggested NN made a FCLO if there was a way they could still be assured that there is no contamination from heavy metals, PCBs, etc. But in this day and age purity is their biggest concern so they have to process the oil by distillation to remove contaminants.

As far as Mercola, she sent me the NN company's rebuttal statement. I haven't had time to read it yet but I will summarize it for you if anyone is still interested later!
Oh yes I'm very interested!!!!
post #30 of 74
We take TwinLab (it's cheap), and I specifically asked about this over a year ago (if they added synthetic A or D.) The email response that I got was:
Quote:
The A & D come naturally in our Cod Liver Oil.
post #31 of 74
Thread Starter 
Not to alarm you but I think that Twinlab has been one of the CLO's tested that had PCBs. Here's a link but this has been all over the internet so I am sure you can find a better one:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-03-0...-liver-oil-pcb
post #32 of 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post
Not to alarm you but I think that Twinlab has been one of the CLO's tested that had PCBs. Here's a link but this has been all over the internet so I am sure you can find a better one:

http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-03-0...-liver-oil-pcb
Yeah- I found one website with the results, and it looked like Twinlab was the lowest levels they found in the study. (Not that I want any PCBs... but I'm not sure that's possible these days. )
post #33 of 74
I just don't get why the WAPF won't even list NN CLO in the "best" or "good" categories - they won't list NN at.all. But Blue Ice Fermented is recommended as, hands-down, the BEST CLO available.

What NN claims (& TwinLab, too, I suppose) goes completely against what the WAPF and Dave from GP says - and vice versa.

I'm going to send an email today to Sally Fallon, Dave from GP and Nordic Natural - and they'll all be CC'd. I'm tired of the confusion.

I'll post back with any answers I get. I know Dave has posted here to clarify - I wonder if SF or an NN rep. would do that? Then we could all ask questions...
post #34 of 74
Hey nukuspot, do you have an email you could share for your contact mentioned above from NN that you could PM me?
post #35 of 74
I have been following this thread too, and I have to admit I am getting a bit annoyed by the confusion as well. At the very high price of about $40 per bottle, you would think that the Blue Ice fermented stuff would at least be purity checked. If it is not, this really does bother me. And, how can WAPF recommend something that is not purity checked??
post #36 of 74
There's a recent article on the WAPF site that claims purity is overrated and can actually remove naturally occurring vitamins, like A, which protect against toxins.

Quote:
Is Ultra-Clean Really Necessary?

But are either deodorization or molecular distillation necessary? The industry says yes. According to the owners of one mill I visited: "We have done some tests on non-deodorized CLO and have observed . . . . dioxin-like PCB’s at a concentration of 6-8 picograms TE [WHO designation of Toxic Equivalent] per gram and some pesticides are also observed."

However, during my studies, I talked to two fish oil scientists and one marine biologist who questioned the necessity for ultra-clean oils. They did not want to go on record but this is what they said in a nut shell: There have been metals,dioxins and PCBs in fish livers and our environment since the beginning of time. And while there may be a difference between man-made contaminants and naturally occurring contaminants, there are just as many or more contaminants in tomatoes and strawberries than in most fish oils. Left unsaid was the fact that vitamin A in cod liver oil protects against dioxins and pesticides (see page 32). Much of this protective nutrient is removed in the process of making the oil ultra-clean.

They also believed that concerns for mercury content in cod liver oil were misplaced, explaining
that mercury has always been in the sea. The red color in plankton is methyl mercury. Plankton is the grass of the sea. Methyl mercury has always been part of man’s diet through the consumption of ocean fish. Said on of my interviewees: "One day we may find that some of the contaminants are actually nutrients."
http://www.westonaprice.org/Cod-Live...facturing.html
post #37 of 74
I just sent the following to Sally Fallon, Dave from GP, Nordic Natural's professional line and the WAPF:

Quote:
Hopefully, this message has reached its intended recipients – Sally Fallon, Dave from Green Pasture, Nordic Naturals and the WAPF.

My name is Erin and I’m writing on behalf of the traditional foods community on Mothering.com, a very active online community.

Dr. Mercola’s latest article (attack) on cod liver oil prompted another discussion followed by more debate and frustration about the conflicting information out there regarding cod liver oil.

“Cod liver (A/D mercola controversy) question” is the title of the thread and here’s the link, if anyone is interested: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1205887

The questions that arose have been about the different brands of cod liver oil on the market. The WAPF states that Blue Ice Fermented CLO is the *ONLY* cod liver oil with naturally occurring vitamins – and that all others contain synthetic A and D, correct? Yet Nordic Naturals insists that their products contain *NO* synthetic vitamins, and never have. Even TwinLab, upon questioning, claimed their CLO had only naturally occurring A & D.

My understanding, and that of many in our online community, has been that the synthetic vitamins are being added before the cod liver oil even reaches the companies that sell them and that Dave found a way around this by fermenting whole cod livers. Nordic Naturals claims that they have control over the whole production of their CLO from catch to bottle.

The next concern that arose from the discussion was that Nordic Naturals tests every batch of their product for PCBs, heavy metals, etc – and Blue Ice is not tested.

I’ve read Dave’s articles on the WAPF website including the “off-the-record” comments from a marine biologist and two fish oil scientists who questioned whether “ultra clean” was really necessary, but there are people out there who hesitate to use Blue Ice because of this.

People are curious as to how much processing is involved in purifying cod liver oil and how much this processing changes or damages the oils.

I’m curious why the WAPF doesn’t list Nordic Naturals anywhere on the “Cod Liver Oil Basics and Recommendations” page. There are other oils listed that contain synthetic vitamins in the “good” category so the only thing I can come up with is that Nordic’s CLO doesn’t have a “safe” ratio of A to D. Can the WAPF please clarify the exclusion of Nordic Natural’s CLO from this list?

Thank you for taking the time to read this and hopefully to respond either directly to this email or to the thread linked to above.
I hope this sums up everyone's questions.
post #38 of 74
The email to Dave just bounced back, anyone have a recent one? I had an old email from him in my inbox from 2008, guess it changed.
post #39 of 74
Maybe I'm missing something, but Mercola said that Carlsons CLO was just fine not too long ago. Has he changed his mind on it? Before, he was saying that was the only brand he'd recommend...
post #40 of 74
I called and got an updated email addy for him - hasn't bounced back yet...

AllyRae, you got me. Mercola changes his stance like I change my underwear.
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