just at my wit's end with my 9yr old

[justmama]

I will preface this by saying that she's in the process of being diagnosed with and treated for ADD(inattentive type). So that does color some of the situation. But basically she is just slipping hard in school. We are used to the forgetfulness at hoime and the lack of appropriate emotional responses to things and the lack of self-control. But at school it's becoming a serious issue. Shes in 4th grade and she's seriously falling behind on school work. Her teacher is extremely strict and doesn't allow you to make up missed homework. Mady's grades have always been A's and B's and her scores on the standardized testing system were high enough for her to be nominated for the accelerated learning program which they are testing her for(that's another issue, not quite sure she's ready for that given the situation). But since she's started this school year, she's missed homework assignments left and right. At the beginning of the year her teacher told all us parents who attended open house that we should not be checking the kids' agendas each nigth for homework assignments and sitting there doing them with them. We should basically let them sink or swim. I didn't have an issue with that until my kid started sinking. She missed 3 out of 4 of these little book report things she has to do in the last two months. Reason when I asked her: "well I didn't finish the books for them so I couldn't do them." BUT she read countless other books during that time AND she never came to me to tell me she was having trouble or that she couldn't do the work. And tonight her father checked her agenda and grilled her about the work written there and she lied to his face telling him that she didn't have any homework. It was clearly written that she had social studies homework. He finally lgot the truth out of her that she had some homework but she forgot the book at school so she couldnt' do it. BUT the book is online and she knows it and we've accessed it before to do homework when the book was forgotten at school. And we discussed this morning that she needed to brfing it home to study for her test tomorrow. SO obviously she's not doing the work and lying about it to us. And this system is not working. I don't know what to do. Because of the issue with the book reports she lost her nintendo ds which she values above all else for a week. Now I need to punish her again for lying to her dad. He's under the impression that she just doesn't care about her schoolwork but if she didn't care, why would she lie? I dont' know what to do. I'm so frustrated and upset about this. I don't know how to make her care. I've suggested weekly or daily progress reports to the teacher multiple times and she's shot me down. I've suggested moving Mady's desk closer to the teacher's desk and away from all other students but she's shot me down. I'm kinda tapped on ideas. Mady is constantly talking, constantly racing through things making stupid mistakes(probably the reason she's forgetting things), and constantly disrupting class. I know some of this is related to the ADD and once we get her on meds she might improve but the lying is not. We talked this weekend about the book reports and that she needed to come to me for help if she didn't finish the books so that she could at least hand in SOMETHING and I thought she got it. But tonight she did the same thing. Lied about the social studies homework because she didn't bring home the book so she thought she couldn't do it. I don't know how to fix this. I have a meeting with the principal tomorrow in hopes that i can make some suggestions to her about dealing with these issues and get feedback from her because the teacher is no help and we've already had a conference and left frustrated. Her dad thinks she's just being a brat and not caring abotu her work and needs to be punished. I dont' know what to think. I just want my kid to do well in school and not lie to me.

[LynnS6]

Do you have a school counselor who's decent? I think now might be a good time to get them involved. She needs a plan for organizational help, at the very least. If she gets diagnosed with ADD, she'll need either an IEP or a 504 plan and then you can demand that the teacher accommodate her in some ways.

I see the lying as a direct consequence of her struggling in school, and I suspect that if you address the school issues, the lying will disappear. Why do kids lie? Most of the time, it's to avoid unpleasant consequences/conflict. So, in the homework case, she knows there's homework due, she thinks she can't do it, so she says "I don't have any homework" (meaning, I can't do my homework because I forgot my book, but you'll yell it me if I tell you that, and so I'd rather say I don't have any). She's not a budding sociopath. It's a sign of a kid who's overwhelmed.

If she really has ADD, she also might have truly forgotten that she has homework due. Executive function, self regulation and planning are all hard for kids with ADD.

What about a different consequence for being untruthful about her homework? It looks to me like she's lost the privilege of doing homework without you checking on her. I would find a time for her to do her homework that works for her and you. At that time, you check her homework assignments and monitor that she's on task. When she's done with her homework, you check to see that it's done (not her answers). Then, in return for your time, she gets to help you do some things around the house (in addition to whatever regular chores she does).

After a week, you can try a day of her doing her homework on her own again. If there's a problem, you're back to the system of: Mom monitors, daughter pays mom back for mom's time. (So, I'd leave the DS out of it altogether, as it's really unrelated to the issue.)

I'd also write up a check list for her of things that she needs to check every day before leaving school. Pin it to her backpack (or she'll lose it), and she can check it just before she leaves.

Is she in 4th grade or 5th grade? If it's 5th, then yes, the teachers often do take a 'sink or swim' approach with the kids. Unfortunately, 4th-5th grade is also when academic requirements shift from 'learning to read' to 'reading to learn', and some kids who have subtle learning disabilities only show them then. I haven't a clue if that applies to your dd (from the fact that she reads a lot, it probably doesn't), but it is something to keep in the back of your mind as you move through the process.

[journeymom]

I'm not sure how one goes about getting an IEP, Individualized Education Program, process started, but if you're daughter has ADHD, that is what she needs. I urge you to post this over in the Special Needs Parenting thread. The ladies there are incredibly knowledgeable and helpful.

the teacher is no help and we've already had a conference and left frustrated.

I'm hoping your daughter's school has a traditional school year, and her time with this teacher is just about finished? If so, cling to that fact!

CHADD is a great organization.

Also Additude Magazine especially this article, How to Work With Your ADHD Child's Teacher.

[eepster]

If she can get "A"s and "B"s without doing the homework what intrinsic reward does she have for doing it?

I dragged my feet about doing home work like mad in school. It was boring and tedious. The teacher just kept saying "the home work is to help you learn to XYZ." The problem was I had figured out XYZ as soon as the teacher presented it. I could get perfect test papers without cracking a book quite often. In the subjects where I couldn't get perfect test scores, such as spelling the reality was that the homework didn't help anyway. When I could clearly see that doing the homework had no effect on what I did or didn't learn, there was no internal motivation to do it.

[GoBecGo]

I didn't need to do homework to get good results either. But my mother or father was checking i had done my homework until i was at LEAST 12, i think 9 is very young to be completely responsible for remembering books, assignments and turn-in days, without the ADD issues.

I agree that she probably lied to try to avoid punishment. I just went through something similar with my nearly 4yo and it has led to me basically dropping punishments for now.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

My 4th grader doesn't, as far as I know, have any ADD issues (my 1st grader does, so I can see the difference). Nonetheless he routinely forgets homework assignments, needed materials and deadlines. While the teachers would like to encourage independence, it wasn't working for us. Therefore, we established the following rules as a consequence of one too many missed deadlines.

1. He must bring ALL of this books home EVERY DAY. He only walks from classroom to car and has a rolling backpack, so its heavy but it means he never has the "no book" excuse. Before I pull away from the school I ask him if he has all of his books.

2. I check his homework sheet every night as we start, set time goals, make sure he understands the assignments, then I leave him to work on his homework while I work with DD on hers. I check all assignments are complete (though I don't check content) before he is allowed to declare "I'm done". He isn't done until his binder is neatly organized, his work is in the right spots and everything is back in the backpack by the door. This was the consequence for lying about finishing work when it wasn't really done some time back. For me, lying means you aren't to be trusted and things must be checked.

3. There is no TV or electronicis until all homework is done. If by some chance homework materials are forgotten, then homework can't, by definition, be finished and therefore no TV or electronics that evening. This is the only consequence related to homework and I think it makes logical sense.

Its very disappointing to hear that your child's teacher isn't being helpful and I hope the principal is more receptive. My DD's teacher has been really great about the ADHD issues and I can't imagine working without that support.

[justmama]

She was unofficially diagnosed with ADD and we have our official psychologist eval on the 24th so until the actual offical diagnosis, we can't get our IEP and any meds appropriate. I'm not for medicating as an answer to everything but we've tried just about everything with her and she's only slipping further and further into the forgetfulness and the lack of self-control(ie, lashing out at her sisters physically when she's angry, crossing streets without looking(obviously knowing her potential for that, i'm right behind her), lack of willpower, etc.

I am now checking her homework and being "on her" more and more this past week but it makes her so angry. It makes her so angry with me that I feel like maybe she will start lying MORE because she's angry that I'm checking on her homework and micromanaging her. I have always been available to her because I always sit at the table and color with her little sisters or stay in the kitchen with her and do dishes or clean up dinner. But now I'm actively checking her homework and making her show me each completed assignment and initialing it in her agenda.

Learning delays were mentioned and I really feel like that's not the issue. She's gotten great grades so far in school and she's way above grade level with her reading skills and she IS learning from her reading and she's been nominated for accelerated learning program as I stated so I don't think that it's a learning disability.


What about a different consequence for being untruthful about her homework? It looks to me like she's lost the privilege of doing homework without you checking on her. I would find a time for her to do her homework that works for her and you. At that time, you check her homework assignments and monitor that she's on task. When she's done with her homework, you check to see that it's done (not her answers). Then, in return for your time, she gets to help you do some things around the house (in addition to whatever regular chores she does).

After a week, you can try a day of her doing her homework on her own again. If there's a problem, you're back to the system of: Mom monitors, daughter pays mom back for mom's time. (So, I'd leave the DS out of it altogether, as it's really unrelated to the issue.)

I like this system, that's definitely a good thing to implement. That will begin tomorrow for us!

As in regards to the checklist, we live our entire lives by checklist. She has a whiteboard that I write everything on and she may erase when the task is done(and I do check). She is forgetful to the point where I need to write down things like "change underwear" and "did you put your snack in your backpack?
and "do you need mom to sign any papers?" So I am trying to find ways to do this that work for her by letting her help herself. I want her to learn to be self-sufficient and work with her limitations.

In regards to the ladies who suggested that she wasn't doing homework because she can skate by without it and knows it, I think you are right. I wrote this while she went to her dad's house tonight and when she came home, we discussed this issue further. I asked her why she lied to her daddy regarding the studying and she told me that she didn't need to study because she already knew it all. She truly felt that it was pointless to study. That's one of the reasons I feel like the accelerated learning program may be a positive thing for her. It gets her out of her classroom 3 hours per day and away from the teacher. It gives her challenges so she's not bored in school and acting out and talking. But again, it's more work and she's already not passing work in and doing the work required of her so it could backfire and she could let her grades slip even further. I haven't made up my mind yet as to whether or not to put her in the program.



I appreciate the time everyone took to listen and evaluate and write such thoughtful responses. She came home from her dad's house and got on the computer and did her homework properly and we checked off everything in her agenda and she even took a shower and got dressed for bed in a reasonable fashion. No dawdling and playing and forgetting things. I was very proud and complimented her on her good choices. It's just such a frustrating year for us.