Teaching "I'm Sorry"

[not_telling]

DS is 19.5 months and is in the ever-expanding vocab stage. Like all kids his age, he's big on identifying objects and actions. He regularly speaks 2 word "sentences" and sometimes 3 word. We haven't done much in terms of "teaching manners" yet (e.g. saying thank you, please). Sometimes if he asks for more of something, I'll echo back what he's said, adding please - e.g. he says "more raisins" and I say "more raisins please" and then hand him some raisins and I might say "thank you mommy for giving me more raisins".

Anyway, tonight we were both being silly while reading a book and he got all excited and bit my arm in his excitement. Hard. Ouch! When he bites, which isn't that often, I remove myself from what we're doing and let him know through my tone of voice and my words that what he did hurt mommy and makes me not want to play with him because I'm worried he'll bite again. He almost always gets upset that I've removed myself from whatever activity we've been enjoying together and I'll ask if he's going to bite mommy again and he says "no" (although, these days he says no to most everything ).

So, tonight, after he got upset that I wasn't sitting and reading with him anymore, I told him that we say "I'm sorry" when we hurt other people. He kept asking me to sit and read and I said, "If you want me to sit with you and read again you need to say 'I'm sorry, mommy'". So, he said "sorry, mommy. mommy, sorry, sorry." And I thanked him for saying sorry and then we read together again. But when he was saying "sorry" I was feeling like I had manipulated him in some way...having him say this thing that he completely doesn't understand.

My feeling is that, at this age, he has little, if any, understanding of remorse, and saying "sorry" is kind of like an empty gesture. On the hand, I'm wondering if it isn't important to start getting him in the habit of apologizing earlier rather than later...with the understanding that as he gets older, he'll understand better why he's saying it. What do you all think/do with kids this age and apologizing?

[Anandamama]

I think I understand what you mean about teaching manners but then also wanting him to not be saying things just to appease you, with no understanding. I teach polite speech to my toddler in a similar way. I don't demand that they say things like 'please' and 'thank you' but I do suggest it and say why it's a good idea. (People are more likely be be responsive to you!)
I feel like "I'm sorry" is different because it's so important that it be sincere. In your situation I would basically do what you did, but I would say, "I know you didn't mean to hurt me but it really did hurt and I don't like that. You know, if you want to help someone to feel better you can say, 'I'm sorry', and you can give a hug or a gentle touch (or whatever else seems helpful in that situation)." After some coaching like this eventually you will be able to say, "Can you think of anything you can do to help me (her, him) feel better?" Then when he says "I'm sorry" and gives a hug at least it will be self-initiated instead of something he might get in trouble for not doing!
It's so important to focus on empathy for suffering caused rather than the protocol for what 'should' be done. We all know how much good an empty, insincere "sorry" does!
I teach toddlers and I never try to force children to say "I'm sorry". I also spend some time pointing out emotional cues: "Do you see her face? Do you see how sad she is? She's crying... see these tears? And look at that mark on her arm. Ohh, that looks like it must hurt." Some children need this kind of coaching and others don't.

[pearldiver]

I agree with everything Anandamama said. I think is was good to explain what to say, if he is upset he probably wants to fix it, and it sounds like he was sincerly sorry because it caused you to leave and he didnt want that to happen.
What has worked with my son (and I didnt know it was happening until after the fact), was modeling. If I accidentally hurt him physically or emotionaly I appologized like I would to anyone. the same with maners, if he helps me I say thank you, I still suggest ways of asking, like you did with food.
I think you are on the right path

[hakeber]

There is another thread about apologies in GD that is about an older child but a similar issue.

I don't think what you did was manipulative. You told him your feeling in reaction to his biting and then gave him the words to fix it for you. At 19 months he probably only vaguely understands most of the words in our language and what their effects are, and it's part of his learning to try them out.

Originally Posted by Anandamama

I think I understand what you mean about teaching manners but then also wanting him to not be saying things just to appease you, with no understanding. I teach polite speech to my toddler in a similar way. I don't demand that they say things like 'please' and 'thank you' but I do suggest it and say why it's a good idea. (People are more likely be be responsive to you!)
I feel like "I'm sorry" is different because it's so important that it be sincere. In your situation I would basically do what you did, but I would say, "I know you didn't mean to hurt me but it really did hurt and I don't like that. You know, if you want to help someone to feel better you can say, 'I'm sorry', and you can give a hug or a gentle touch (or whatever else seems helpful in that situation)." After some coaching like this eventually you will be able to say, "Can you think of anything you can do to help me (her, him) feel better?" Then when he says "I'm sorry" and gives a hug at least it will be self-initiated instead of something he might get in trouble for not doing!
It's so important to focus on empathy for suffering caused rather than the protocol for what 'should' be done. We all know how much good an empty, insincere "sorry" does!
I teach toddlers and I never try to force children to say "I'm sorry". I also spend some time pointing out emotional cues: "Do you see her face? Do you see how sad she is? She's crying... see these tears? And look at that mark on her arm. Ohh, that looks like it must hurt." Some children need this kind of coaching and others don't.

I think this is right on, but I would disagree that it is any different from polite speech. I think sorry IS a part of polite speech (at least it is in the community I grew up in), and an insincere Please or Thank You gets under my skin almost as much as an insincere apology, and the truth is in many instances if you can make it SOUND sincere that's all many acquaintances will really care about. So in a way it is a social thing.

IMO kids don't really get the need for polite words, they just do it because they know they should, which is why I find myself reminding even my teenaged students that to say please and thank you will make things happen faster (although a funny story: I always say please and thank you to my students and the would you and could you forms when assigning homework, because it's more polite and as the teacher I felt it was implicit I was assigning homework, not just making a request, but my students from Germany and Holland figured since I said please, it was optional. Caused a lot of hassle and confusion the first few weeks of class ). And they won't have a firm grasp of remorse until they experience real consequences for their actions. Not punishments but natural consequences.

I never asked DS to say sorry, though over time he did pick it up from his dad and I. We just had discussions about the consequence in simpe terms:

DS bites me
Mommy walks away a safe distance holding her arms saying "OUCH! No! OUCH! Benjamin Bite mommy OWWIE! Benjamin bite Mommy, mommy no read story!"
DS Cries
Mommy stays away but says "Benjamin bite mommy again?"
DS "nooooo. I no bite mommy again!"
Mommy comes close and holds ds. "Benjamin is sad he bite mommy?"
DS nods
Mommy "okay, Benjamin, Mommy not mad, Mommy loves you very much. Let's hug it out."
both hug and carry on.



That's enough contrition for me. He understands sad, but not really sorry. At that age he got sad, happy, mad, sometimes tired and hungry, but everything else fell under confused.

As he got older and he started to interact with others we started to teach how the word sorry can be used to smooth over social flubs, when said sincerely, much in the same way as please and thank you, and just recently we have started helping him discern between an apology for accidents and mistakes like: "I'm sorry I'm late." or "I'm sorry I broke your teacup, gran." and apologies for making poor choices that hurt people, especially the ones that purposefully hurt people.

I still would rather he say I am sad about that choice I made, than I am sorry, if what he really means is I am sorry you caught me, or I am sorry you are so mad. I think it takes kids their whole childhood (and some people even well into adulthood or their whole dang lives) to make the connection between their actions and other people's feelings about them. I know some people that never feel remorse at all, but they are still pretty good at saying sorry.

Originally Posted by pearldiver

I agree with everything Anandamama said. I think is was good to explain what to say, if he is upset he probably wants to fix it, and it sounds like he was sincerly sorry because it caused you to leave and he didnt want that to happen.

What has worked with my son (and I didnt know it was happening until after the fact), was modeling. If I accidentally hurt him physically or emotionaly I appologized like I would to anyone. the same with maners, if he helps me I say thank you, I still suggest ways of asking, like you did with food.
I think you are on the right path

For me that bolded part is the only reason they say it at this age. They haven't got to the point of "I am sorry I did that because if you did that to me I would be really sad and I don't want to be the kind of person that hurts people or makes them sad, I will try to change." which is really what makes an apology sincere, ya know?

I don't know if what we're doing here is great, or if it will make a huge difference, but it feels right for us.

[chipper26]

My dd is 20 months old. Right now, I'm just modeling "sorry." I day it all fo the time, like if I accidentally bump into her, or spill something or make a general mistake or hurt her in some way. I think she understands, plus she has watched Baby Sighing Time, and there is a song about please, thank you and sorry.

So anyway, she's gone through a stage where she signed sorry when I said it. I think I've asked her to say sorry once or twice. I guess I want to make sure she really knows what she is saying before I really "enforce" it with her.

I'm not sure how we'll handle it in the future. I don't think I believe in forced sorries, but I also want to teach her manners. Maybe I'll just suggest it and hope she complies. That might be wishful thinking.

[Anandamama]

It sounds like everybody is basically saying the same thing... to keep the emotional connection in the forefront, remain open to your child, and don't get distracted by a power struggle over "say you're sorry!". I think it's pretty safe to assume that our children will learn sincere apologies from seeing us in action... no coercion needed. At the same time I agree with hakber that it can be just part of polite speech. I suppose there are many different kinds and levels of "sorry". To bump into someone accidentally, offer to help them up and say, "I'm so sorry; I didn't mean to knock you down", is basic politeness. With more complex ways that we harm others it can be more difficult to muster a sincere apology. Most of us don't master it even as adults!
But I guess with all forms of politeness I don't believe it does much good to coerce a child to be polite with threats, shame, judgement, etc. Best just to provide the possibilities, gently encourage and model.
Thanks for bringing up this topic - I think it's very interesting!

[NJKim]

I've recently started reading Unconditional Parenting and he has a good take on the whole "I'm sorry" thing. Basically that by forcing kids to say it, we're just teaching them to lie as they get older, to say what they know the adults want to hear, whether it's "I'm sorry" or something else. Makes sense.

I just try to explain what he did and that it's not allowed or what happened when he did something or what happened when someone did something to him and to talk about what he was feeling or why he did something, like "oh, did that make you mad so you threw the toy at mommy?" I think getting them to talk about their emotions even when they don't fully understand it is a good idea and will hopefully just get easier as they get older. And then when they understand it a little better, if they feel bad about doing something, then they can learn to say sorry. I agree that modeling it is a good idea, I'm sure a lot of us do that even if we don't realize it.

[ssh]

We teach manners by modeling. With apologies, our DD has heard my DH and I say 'I'm sorry' to her and each other, both as an apology and in sympathy (oh, I'm sorry you're sad/don't feel well, etc...). By 2 she was using thank you, your welcome and I'm sorry accurately. With apologies she usually has to calm down if she's angry before she says I'm sorry, but at least they are sincere apologies.