Daughter Diagnosed with ADHD and ODD

[luv2bmommie]

For any parents that have already been down this road, as I am just starting down it, what types of therapy, parenting, medication or non-medication improved your child's behavior. My daughter has been recently diagnosed with ADHD and ODD.

I have known for some time that my daughter was special needs just couldn't put a finger on what it was, but now I have the diagnosis.

I really do not want to medicate, but if it helps then I will give it a try. Since Kindergarten she has had behavior issues, she is going to be 7 soon.

Any advice or links to websites would be helpful and appreciated.

Thank You

Proud Mommy to Alexis (6) and Dylan (3)

[joensally]

Hi there,

What were the credentials of the person who diagnosed her, how extensive was the evaluation, and what did they recommend?

[luv2bmommie]

I do not have the paperwork in front of me at the moment, but it was from a UCLA study done by some of the psychology majors and a professor. It was reccomended by my daughter's school to look into this study.

The evaluation consisted of myself filling out a stack of forms about and inch and a half thick then a 4 hour evaluation at UCLA involving parent and child play and then also I.Q. tests and other ADHD related tests that I and my daughter took as well as saliva testing (genetic testing). Her 1st grade teacher also answered a questionaire as well.

They reccomend therapy, parenting classes, and possibly medication.

I need to follow through on what to do next as this was only for a study done through UCLA and all they do is give a diagnosis.


Proud Mommy to Alexis (6) and Dylan (3)

[joensally]

Originally Posted by luv2bmommie

I do not have the paperwork in front of me at the moment, but it was from a UCLA study done by some of the psychology majors and a professor. It was reccomended by my daughter's school to look into this study.

The evaluation consisted of myself filling out a stack of forms about and inch and a half thick then a 4 hour evaluation at UCLA involving parent and child play and then also I.Q. tests and other ADHD related tests that I and my daughter took as well as saliva testing (genetic testing). Her 1st grade teacher also answered a questionaire as well.

They reccomend therapy, parenting classes, and possibly medication.

I need to follow through on what to do next as this was only for a study done through UCLA and all they do is give a diagnosis.


Proud Mommy to Alexis (6) and Dylan (3)

Psych majors like BAs or MA candidates or PhD candidates?

I ask because ODD is a funny diagnosis and many in the mental health community are suspicious of the diagnosis being too readily given. It's a serious condition where it is actually ODD and requires intensive intervention. I'm not trying to undermine you or the evaluators in any way, but I think ODD is a very heavy diagnosis and you want to make sure it's the right one.

From my understanding, family therapy, parent coaching and therapy for the child are all recommended.

Do you have insurance? Will they accept this diagnosis for treatment, or do you need to go to a pediatrician or psychiatrist to access insured services?

How is she doing in school?

ETA:
I think this is a good overview:
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_d...c&id=630&cn=37

[luv2bmommie]

I believe they are PhD candidates. I will look over the paperwork tonight to confirm.

Her pediatrician suspects she may have ODD and we will be bringing him this new diagnosis from UCLA for him to review this next week.

We do have insurance and all services will be covered if needed.

She is doing okay in school. She is very smart, scores high on tests for math and reading. It is her behavior that causes problems for the teacher and her behavior performance scores are as low as they get. It has been this way since the start of elementary school.

I really want our pediatrician to refer us to a good psycologist and I guess see where to take it from there. I have done minor research on the internet and have not done any extensive research into this. i am not even sure I am going about this correctly.

Thank you for your response I appreciate it.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by luv2bmommie

I believe they are PhD candidates. I will look over the paperwork tonight to confirm.

Her pediatrician suspects she may have ODD and we will be bringing him this new diagnosis from UCLA for him to review this next week.

We do have insurance and all services will be covered if needed.

She is doing okay in school. She is very smart, scores high on tests for math and reading. It is her behavior that causes problems for the teacher and her behavior performance scores are as low as they get. It has been this way since the start of elementary school.

I really want our pediatrician to refer us to a good psycologist and I guess see where to take it from there. I have done minor research on the internet and have not done any extensive research into this. i am not even sure I am going about this correctly.

Thank you for your response I appreciate it.

I'm parenting two complicated kids, one who is very complicated. You just do the best you can and it all takes time. The system is complicated and can be hard to navigate, never mind the rest of your life .

If they did IQ tests, did she test gifted? If so, you need to read up on that as there is a high incidence of gifted kids being misdiagnosed with other behaviour-based conditions. I can point you in some directions with that.

Here are some excellent, excellent books, with previews on google books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=DmU...age&q=&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=J5M...age&q=&f=false

I found this the kindest, most healing book which helped me make peace with parenting my complicated kid:
http://books.google.com/books?id=kPt...age&q=&f=false

Ross Greene's The Explosive Child is also good, although if you're dealing with ODD it will only be a piece of the puzzle (well, that's true for all kids - no one book covers the complexity of one human). I also really like Kids, Parents and Power Struggles by Kurcinka in terms of understanding what's underlying a lot of child behaviour and postive approaches which can underpin specific strategies you may need to employ with your daughter.

[luv2bmommie]

Thank you so very much with your input. I will look into the books you listed. I agree I am just starting out and this system is quite complicated. My daughter did score as gifted on her IQ test so I will also look into whether or not she is being misdiagnosed.

Thank you I have much food for thought now.

Proud Mommy to Alexis (6) and Dylan (3)

[paquerette]

What about investigating food sensitivities? Checking for underlying silent medical conditions, like hypoglycemia, celiac, thyroid, Lyme (if you have it in your area), vitamin D deficiency? Trying a special diet like Feingold or GF/CF? These are all things that should have been discussed as possible avenues to explore.

Is it mostly school related or home behavior too? Maybe your child is just not one who does well with traditional schooling?

The "parenting classes" thing really gets my hackles up. I suspect they're going to try to train you to be authoritative and behaviorist.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by luv2bmommie

Thank you so very much with your input. I will look into the books you listed. I agree I am just starting out and this system is quite complicated. My daughter did score as gifted on her IQ test so I will also look into whether or not she is being misdiagnosed.

Thank you I have much food for thought now.

Proud Mommy to Alexis (6) and Dylan (3)

Oh! Here's a great, great, great book (again with preview!):
http://books.google.com/books?id=NQr...age&q=&f=false

Another great resource are the Eidies. Their book, The Mislabeled Child, is fantastic, and they have a very interesting blog:
http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/

The Eides are both MDs and she's a neurologist.

In the forum just next to this one, Parenting the Gifted Child, there are a number of threads about misdiagnosis .

Getting the diagnosis right is the first step toward the right strategies and interventions for a child.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by paquerette

What about investigating food sensitivities? Checking for underlying silent medical conditions, like hypoglycemia, celiac, thyroid, Lyme (if you have it in your area), vitamin D deficiency? Trying a special diet like Feingold or GF/CF? These are all things that should have been discussed as possible avenues to explore.

Is it mostly school related or home behavior too? Maybe your child is just not one who does well with traditional schooling?

The "parenting classes" thing really gets my hackles up. I suspect they're going to try to train you to be authoritative and behaviorist.

Ditto all of the above. And yes, most of the predominant recommendations around ODD are behaviorist.

[luv2bmommie]

What about investigating food sensitivities? Checking for underlying silent medical conditions, like hypoglycemia, celiac, thyroid, Lyme (if you have it in your area), vitamin D deficiency? Trying a special diet like Feingold or GF/CF? These are all things that should have been discussed as possible avenues to explore.

Is it mostly school related or home behavior too? Maybe your child is just not one who does well with traditional schooling?

The "parenting classes" thing really gets my hackles up. I suspect they're going to try to train you to be authoritative and behaviorist.

Yes I want to look into this. I have an appointment with the pediatrician next week and will discuss these with him.

My daughter's behavior is disruptive at home as well and in public. I am beginning to think my daughter does not fit into "traditional schooling" but I cannot afford a private school.

Yeah I am still undecided on the parenting classes as I mostly practice a more gentle form of discipline.

[karne]

ODD is a big diagnosis for a 7 y/o girl, esp. if she is in the gifted arena. I don't want to second guess anyone you've consulted with, but you might really want a second opinion. Gifted or highly intelligent kids can be extremely persistent and have some personality factors that can look ODD, but aren't. I have a similar aged child and we go around about this too.

Are you going to treat the ADHD with meds? I wonder what your dd will "look like" if some of her ADHD symptoms abate? Diagnosing co-morbid conditions is really tricky, and I am not clear how ODD is confirmed without having treated the ADHD?

I second the Eides book and website. You may also want a psychologist who specializes in gifted kids.

[luv2bmommie]

Originally Posted by karne

ODD is a big diagnosis for a 7 y/o girl, esp. if she is in the gifted arena. I don't want to second guess anyone you've consulted with, but you might really want a second opinion. Gifted or highly intelligent kids can be extremely persistent and have some personality factors that can look ODD, but aren't. I have a similar aged child and we go around about this too.

Are you going to treat the ADHD with meds? I wonder what your dd will "look like" if some of her ADHD symptoms abate? Diagnosing co-morbid conditions is really tricky, and I am not clear how ODD is confirmed without having treated the ADHD?

I second the Eides book and website. You may also want a psychologist who specializes in gifted kids.

I really do not want to treat her condition with meds. I want to discuss all options with the pediatrician this next week. I am really trying to get as much information as possible before I make any decisions. I have a lot of research to do and reading. But everyone's replies have been really helpful.

[luv2bmommie]

I am curious to hear those who have chose to medicate what the upsides or downfalls were? If my daughter becomes some zoned out zombie and not anything like her usual vibrant self I will probably pull her off the meds.

I have always had issues and power struggles with my daughter, nothing that has turned my life upside down. Her teachers are really concerned and she has exhibited use of colorful language, hurting other kids (usually hitting back), name calling, hurting her little brother, very argumentative with me (I try not to engage in most of them). Hard to stay focused on tasks at hand, very hyperactive.

She is a wonderful, smart, imaginative young girl. I want her to thrive in school and life. I am so worried that she will have problems later in life. I just am struggling to find my own thoughts about this situation. It ranges from " oh she's fine the teacher's just don't want to deal with a disruptive child in class" to "oh god what if her teachers are right and she will continue to have problems at school and with her peers."

Ugghh it's so frustrating. I worry for her.

[joensally]

Originally Posted by luv2bmommie

I really do not want to treat her condition with meds. I want to discuss all options with the pediatrician this next week. I am really trying to get as much information as possible before I make any decisions. I have a lot of research to do and reading. But everyone's replies have been really helpful.

Not to dominate your thread ...DS meets the criteria for ADHD, less than he used to. He had convergence insufficiency (vision issue), the symptoms of which largely mirror ADHD. Since that was resolved, his ADHD-type behaviours have substantially reduced. He also has sensory processing disorder, and he looks most ADHD when he's on sensory overload.

I'm fascinated by how often ADHD is co-morbid with other diagnoses. I strongly suspect that in many people "ADHD" is a label for behaviours that actually come from the primary diagnosis and would not exist independent of that primary diagnosis - so treating the primary addresses the ADHD behaviours. Although I agree with Karne that it's hard to call it ODD when the ADHD is not addressed first <dizzy>.

My DD is gifted and anxious, with a sometimes explosive temper. Since we moved schools and addressed her academic needs, the chronic stomach pains and explosive tempers are basically gone. She's in public school, not private, although it was very hard to find the right setting.

If you're comfortable doing so, you could post in the gifted child forum with your geographic location and folks there might be able to narrow down clinicians who might be a good fit for your DD.

[luv2bmommie]

My DD is gifted and anxious, with a sometimes explosive temper. Since we moved schools and addressed her academic needs, the chronic stomach pains and explosive tempers are basically gone. She's in public school, not private, although it was very hard to find the right setting.

If you're comfortable doing so, you could post in the gifted child forum with your geographic location and folks there might be able to narrow down clinicians who might be a good fit for your DD.

Yes I think I will do this. Thank You. My DD is also anxious with explosive temper. She has recently voiced that she is not happy at her school so I am looking into other schools.

I must do my research as I feel that she is not always displaying signs of ADHD but when it does rear it's ugly head it is quite noticeable

I am very curious to find out what more of her symptoms are and how they can be resolved. Her explosive temper has been our problem at home at the moment I am trying to find methods to help alleviate her symptoms of anger (breathing and counting).

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I have a newly ADHD 7 YO DD as well, though without the ODD complication. She has also tested as gifted. So I'm feeling my way through this as well.

We tried several non-medical/homeopathic/nutritional options suggested by her doctor to help with the ADHD and nothing worked well enough to allow her to function well enough at school. What really frightened me was how down on herself she was getting. Constant "I can't do anything right", "Everything is my fault", and "Everything is so much harder for me than my friends". And she was right in that she was hearing a lot of negative feedback at school due to behavioral issues and her schoolwork was much harder for her than the other kids in her class. Even in her small, private school with a classroom of 15 kids and 2 teachers she was having trouble.

So about a month ago we decided to try the medication route, with great trepidation but also realizing that making her struggle because I was reluctant to medicate wasn't fair to her. So far its been great. We still don't think we have quite the right medication, but we are getting closer. Her Dr. started with the smallest possible ritilin dose, which didn't get her through the day. Now we are trying a time-release formula that isn't quite enough either and we have an appointment next week for the next one to try. I really appreciate that her doctor is moving slowly up the medication chain.

The best thing I've seen so far is that DD ASKS for her medication each morning because it makes her feel better. She definitely isn't a zombie and her doctor said that if we see anything like that it means its not the right med. Within the month she has started to catch up a bit on her school work and definitely is finding school much easier.

The only negative side effect we've seen is that its an appetite suppressent so she doesn't generally eat her lunch. She makes up for it by snacking from about 4 PM to 8 PM, so I do have to be careful about having healthy food readily available.

I know that meds are generally not considered "natural living". But I take anti- depressants becuase otherwise I am a screaming anxious witch. If I use meds so that I don't have to struggle so much with my day, why shouldn't I give DD the same option? If she said she hated it, didn't like the way it made her feel, or didn't want to for other reasons, we'd talk about alternatives. But so far I'm really happy with what I'm seeing and, more importantly, so is she.

[luv2bmommie]

I have a newly ADHD 7 YO DD as well, though without the ODD complication. She has also tested as gifted. So I'm feeling my way through this as well.

We tried several non-medical/homeopathic/nutritional options suggested by her doctor to help with the ADHD and nothing worked well enough to allow her to function well enough at school. What really frightened me was how down on herself she was getting. Constant "I can't do anything right", "Everything is my fault", and "Everything is so much harder for me than my friends". And she was right in that she was hearing a lot of negative feedback at school due to behavioral issues and her schoolwork was much harder for her than the other kids in her class. Even in her small, private school with a classroom of 15 kids and 2 teachers she was having trouble.

So about a month ago we decided to try the medication route, with great trepidation but also realizing that making her struggle because I was reluctant to medicate wasn't fair to her. So far its been great. We still don't think we have quite the right medication, but we are getting closer. Her Dr. started with the smallest possible ritilin dose, which didn't get her through the day. Now we are trying a time-release formula that isn't quite enough either and we have an appointment next week for the next one to try. I really appreciate that her doctor is moving slowly up the medication chain.

The best thing I've seen so far is that DD ASKS for her medication each morning because it makes her feel better. She definitely isn't a zombie and her doctor said that if we see anything like that it means its not the right med. Within the month she has started to catch up a bit on her school work and definitely is finding school much easier.

The only negative side effect we've seen is that its an appetite suppressent so she doesn't generally eat her lunch. She makes up for it by snacking from about 4 PM to 8 PM, so I do have to be careful about having healthy food readily available.

I know that meds are generally not considered "natural living". But I take anti- depressants becuase otherwise I am a screaming anxious witch. If I use meds so that I don't have to struggle so much with my day, why shouldn't I give DD the same option? If she said she hated it, didn't like the way it made her feel, or didn't want to for other reasons, we'd talk about alternatives. But so far I'm really happy with what I'm seeing and, more importantly, so is she.

Yes my daughter says the same things as well. Her newest is "everyone just stares at me". It makes me so sad. A lot of her friends have moved to other schools and the one's she has now do not seem to be as close and she has had some altercations with *sigh*

That is good to hear about the low dosing of medication and the fact that she is improving, asks for it, and most important isn't a zombie (I have heard some horror stories).

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by luv2bmommie

That is good to hear about the low dosing of medication and the fact that she is improving, asks for it, and most important isn't a zombie (I have heard some horror stories).

Yeah, me too. And I've seen some as well. Which is why I so didn't want to do this. For us, a doctor that I trust and can talk to was key. The fact that she has a DD of her own of about the same age was nice. The fact that SHE suggested with start with homeopathic/nutritional/non-medical options really made me feel better too. I never felt railroaded into medication from her and that makes me feel better.

One thing I realized as I researched medication is how many options there are now. I think many of the horror stories we've seen or heard about were a while back, when there weren't so many options or so many different dosage choices. But now we can try something for my 45 lb. 7 YO that that would never work for an older/larger kid, whereas several years ago it was more "one size fits all" and my little girl would probably be zombied.

I'm not pushing meds, and I would still be more comfortable not doing this, but I would push being open to the option and/or giving it a trial before saying "absolutely not".

[joensally]

This link includes assessors in the US, including California:

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/psychologists.htm#susa

Twice-exceptional (2E) refers to when a child is gifted and has special needs.