Whats next?

[queenjane]

Im in such a weird place right now, emotionally.

On Tuesday, we had the final court date for my foster son and his sister. The judge ruled immediately from the stand, which i did not expect. She terminated rights to both children for all three parents (one father is not at all involved.) My foster son's mom actually walked out of the courtroom while she was talking. I sat in the back and cried a bit, how embarrassing (i was looking at pics of the kids, that the clerk wouldnt take, i had brought them to give to the judge.) The dad at one point got up and argued with the judge during her ruling.

I guess i just didnt expect it to happen, and not so suddenly. I didnt go to court with Keegan's case, his mother was never involved, and while i didnt exactly jump for joy when TPR happened, he already felt like my baby so i was glad we could proceed with the adoption.

This situation is so different. First time i've fostered where we've had visits. First time i've actually really had lots of contact with bio parents. This baby was 16 months at placement (2 now) and had VERY involved parents. There was no abuse and the "neglect" was more stuff with the parents and not really related to my fs. (So i dont even have the "benefit" of thinking how awful and abusive his parents are, if that makes sense.)

I really thought there would be a final visit, where they could say goodbye. Some sort of closure (for me too!)...some time where i could express to the parents that i will take care of their son and offer contact (which my agency appears to not support contact between bparents and aparents in general. I've found i have to be VERY careful what i say to the workers on this subject.)

I just feel all....ugh. I dont know. Im HAPPY that i (most likely) will have another son, permanently. He is bonded, he is happy here. He "fits" into our family so well. I'm going to try to get his sister and it looks more likely than not that that will happen, so i'm glad they will be reunited (she just turned 8)...im rambling...i guess my question is...what do i do now?

In terms of...the birthparents? I have told the mom that i will maintain contact with her, but that i couldnt promise what that "contact" will look like...it may be anything from me sending her pics a few times a year to actual in person contact with the children. However, i think there does need to be time of no in person contact at all (ESP with the older girl...i'm not sure in person contact will be a good idea for years...they have a dysfunctional relationship)...how do i start feeling like "the parent" when i've been treated like the babysitter for so long? Will the bparents ever see me as the parent? The one who gets to make decisions? I did develop a bit of a relationship with the mom but the dad and i have nothing. He barely spoke to me when we'd have visits. He was always appropriate but i think he was just uncomfortable and just waiting to get his kid back from "these people" yknow?

The worker said the kids would be transferred soon to the adoption unit, assigned a worker, and the adoption should proceed pretty quickly after that (i'll have to have the girl in my home for six months of course)...

Its all just so abrupt and...weird. I dont even know what kind of advice i'm looking for. I feel REALLY bad for the parents, and i wonder how long it will take me to get over those feelings. It hit me today that i can make decisions about my fs (like about his hair, or what he wears) without worrying about anyone else, and i'm so happy we dont have to have that time sucker of weekly visits. But im just so conflicted about everything else. I got my fson in July, the tpr trial started in October, and we've been having visits all along. Just last week the parents were bringing toys and clothes for the kids, and the mom had gotten a house and beds for the children. To switch gears so suddenly...ugh...i'm grateful that i get to keep him, but...i dont know. I dont know what to do from here.

[Tigerchild]

Katherine, I wish I could give you a hug.

It sounds like you have bonded a bit with the parents, if not directly, at least with your emotions a bit. I think it's natural (and good) that you can relate to what had to be abrupt and a bit shocking for them too. And since your agency is unsupportive of a positive ongoing relationship with them, that's stressful too, not only for your own feelings but also I'm sure you're thinking about the kids' future feelings as well.

There have been times that I have been shocked and dismayed by the behavior of a judge (even if I agreed with the outcome). I saw that a lot as a corrections officer that often took folks to court (or who would come to court at the request of folks I got to know well so they'd have SOMEONE in the room that they felt cared about them). It does feel like a punch in the gut when someone seems very abrupt and dismissive with people when it's a hugely life altering thing. So I don't know if perhaps that is what you are feeling, but if it is I'm really sorry that you had to see that. It sounds like you are worried about the mom, especially since she essentially fled the courtroom, and of course it doesn't sound like you would be supported in asking after her--and I'm really sorry that you're not being supported in your genuine care for her.

I hope you will be able to keep in touch over the long term. She might need some space too, esp. since IME folks get more and more numb the more this happens to them. You can only do what you can do though. And I think you are more than justified to feel relief that you are likely on the fast track to adoption, while at the same time feeling grief over this family that you do and will have a lifelong connection to.

[queenjane]

Thanks TC.

The judge was very hard on the parents, but realistic...and she made some VERY profound statements that i will remember forever and will write down and keep for the kids. I guess i didnt expect her to be entirely "child focused" since you hear all the time about "reunification of the family" and of the parents rights to their kids being paramount. It seemed to me she made her decision based soley on the best interests of the children. Which is a good thing but didnt benefit the parents at all.

I just got a call that we will be having a goodbye visit with the mom. Thats good. I cant imagine how sad it will be though. I dont think they will include me, which is fine, better i think.

Part of my issue is the mom is young, quite a bit younger than me and i think i feel like she got such a crap deal in life growing up and has done loads better than how she was raised. She bought so much stuff for fs, she would bring him vitamins, and juice (not the "punch" his dad would bring), she would bring homemade food for the kids to eat and always always shared with Keegan, which is just so thoughtful to me. She sent hair products and a comb. She always asked whether he was getting his vaxes and whether a rash cleared up. That sort of thing, she was trying to show she was a good mom in the only way she knew how. That doesnt mean she can raise him. I just cant imagine her going into their new rooms and looking at the empty beds.

I guess because i cannot imagine losing my kids, i feel like i would lay down and die, so i am projecting that on these parents. I need to get a grip.

[RedOakMomma]

I feel emotional just from what you wrote, and I haven't been involved in the case or with the people. It sounds like it would be very hard...especially when the mom was trying and seems to be so thoughtful. I hope that you can continue your relationship with her in some form...it seems like she might really appreciate staying in the lives of the kids.

[Grace and Granola]

Originally Posted by queenjane

Thanks TC.



Part of my issue is the mom is young, quite a bit younger than me and i think i feel like she got such a crap deal in life growing up and has done loads better than how she was raised. She bought so much stuff for fs, she would bring him vitamins, and juice (not the "punch" his dad would bring), she would bring homemade food for the kids to eat and always always shared with Keegan, which is just so thoughtful to me. She sent hair products and a comb. She always asked whether he was getting his vaxes and whether a rash cleared up. That sort of thing, she was trying to show she was a good mom in the only way she knew how. That doesnt mean she can raise him. I just cant imagine her going into their new rooms and looking at the empty beds.

I have never even been close to being in a situation on either side of this. But, I frequent this board because I hope to be a foster parent one day. I really feel for you. My thought when I read this part of your post was, that this mother having been through whatever trials she has in life would probably really benefit from knowing that you feel this way about her. For someone to acknowledge the good she has done, so she doesn't feel like an utter failure. To know that one day, perhaps, she will be a good mom. And also, knowing that you noticed, and will possibly one day, tell the children these "good" things about her will leave her with some peace. Would you be able to write her a letter? I know it's not your job to make her feel better about her life and situation, but you do honestly have these feelings about her. Maybe it could help both of you with closure.

I'm glad to hear they will have a goodbye visit. It seems essential for the both the kids and biological mother.

[sagewinna]

I don't really have any wise words, this kind of scenario is something I think about a lot... I just wanted to tell you I am thinking about you.

[queenjane]

sigh.

today didnt go so well. The worker called me at the last minute to come for a goodbye visit after all, so i dropped K off with my sister and tried to make it up there. I was running about a half hour late and just as i pulled into the parking lot she called me to say "nevermind, dont come, go back home"...she said despite the mom promising to be on good behavior and not flip out, she made a scene and was saying inappropriate stuff to her daughter (i didnt get details but i assume she was saying stuff like she'll get her back, she'll find her, blah blah, but i'm not sure)...she said they were having her taken out of the building.

I was so hoping she'd be able to keep it together for the sake of the kids, but she couldnt. Maybe it was too soon to have this visit. I dont know. But it makes me think having contact with the kids (emails or calls with me is fine) is not a good idea for a looong time, esp with the daughter. There is just so much dysfunction there.

[Grace and Granola]

So sorry to hear it.

[Polliwog]

I think that it was probably too soon to have a goodbye visit. It sounds like the whole thing wasn't thought through and might have been rushed because the little girl already was told about the TPR.

[Thandiwe]

Many, many hugs. Fostering is very emotional, especially when there's a relationship with the parents in any way, shape, or form. On that I can certainly relate. I don't think there's a visit where I don't cry after the drop-off in the am. It seems so profound to me that here I am, and there she is, both moms fighting for the exact. same. thing. Feeling that same fear we will both lose our child. I can certainly relate to that.

I don't have a clue exactly what you're feeling past that, and I'm sure it's even more profound. I am sorry. My best advice would be to give it time. Let the dust settle. Time has a way of healing things, and maybe even presenting a better opportunity for closure later on down the line. One piece of advice I've picked up, though, is be very, very cautious in this state of contact with the family in any form until adoption is final. I've been warned explicitly by our fc worker on this matter, and also by a friend who has adopted 6 kids from fc in another county. She said they are very particular and have (someone she knows??) denied adoptions because of contact with birth family. I guess the guy in the capital who handles adoptions has the mentality that what you do after adoption is your choice, but you'd better not be facilitating contact while the state is still in charge. Just a heads-up...

But most of all, huge hugs. I am really sorry you're caught up in the wave of emotions. Those weekly visits can really rock your world, and to have them up and stop... Take some time for you, to recover.

[Thandiwe]

Oh. And can I borrow your judge?? Just for a day or two??

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Thandiwe

Oh. And can I borrow your judge?? Just for a day or two??

I wish you could! Your case would have been wrapped up a long time ago! I only had "D" a bit more than three months when we started the termination trial (though at that point he'd been "in care" albeit w/ his dad for almost a year) and if it hadnt dragged out due to various reasons we would have had a decision on permanancy a long time ago.

One piece of advice I've picked up, though, is be very, very cautious in this state of contact with the family in any form until adoption is final. I've been warned explicitly by our fc worker on this matter, and also by a friend who has adopted 6 kids from fc in another county. She said they are very particular and have (someone she knows??) denied adoptions because of contact with birth family.

oh i totally agree! i have been very careful about this and know that while he is still a foster, certainly, i cannot have contact (well, i will talk to her on the phone but thats it)..i made sure to tell the foster worker this as well, because i got the impression that she thought the mom and i were friends or something. (she made some comment when i said how bad i felt that the mom wouldnt get a last visit like "i know you've grown close but this is about the kids now" so i wanted to make sure she understood that i would not cross any boundaries.)

I got more details about the scene at the agency, it wasnt pretty thats for sure. Mom had been drinking, saying all sorts of things to her daughter (she'll never stop fighting, she's hired a better lawyer, she'll get her back, the agency stole her, the agency has a quota for the number of adoptions they have to do so they TPRd just for that reason, blah blah)...cussing, yelling, security had to take her out. It just upsets me that this was the last time she may ever see her daughter and THAT is how she chose to spend that time.

[tiffani]

oh Katherine, what a crazy ride!!! so sad for the parents, but definitely sounds like there is so much instability...

the whole concept of a "good-bye" visit seems pretty awful to me... the kids weren't living with them anyway, and why would this have to be considered "good-bye forever!!" what a load of crazy emotion to throw at all of them, especially the little girl. how is she doing, and when are they thinking of transitioning her to your house? is that a for sure thing yet?

so sorry, what a hard thing to go through for all of you.

[Sierra]

tiffani, goodbye visits are pretty common from what I understand (and my own experiences).

queenjane, is the nagging issue for you more the ethics or the sadness of the "goodbye?" I had a really hard time especially with the former with dd's adoption, and her mom was not nearly as amazing at the visits (she certainly never brought dd anything and rarely asked much about her). In my case, I felt a lot of peace after reading the full disclosure file.

[tiffani]

If a parent is capable of having an open adoption relationship, do they allow that to be acknowledged at the 'good-bye visit'? that they'll keep in touch with the child, or maybe get to visit or come to their soccer game or anything at all?

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by tiffani

If a parent is capable of having an open adoption relationship, do they allow that to be acknowledged at the 'good-bye visit'? that they'll keep in touch with the child, or maybe get to visit or come to their soccer game or anything at all?

Its my understanding this type of open relationship is VERY frowned upon by my agency (and others in our area i guess)...the thinking is, that these people were deemed unfit by the court, so they should not have access to the children. I get their point and yet i still want to leave that "door" cracked a bit...

I thought goodbye visits were usually done, but my worker said she doesnt usually do them. She said that its too hard on kids, and if the kids are younger they dont benefit anyway because they dont understand. I just thought maybe there would be some closure but i suppose that was naive of me to think.

how is she doing, and when are they thinking of transitioning her to your house? is that a for sure thing yet?

Its pretty for sure. but you never know in foster care. Her other FM gave notice already and they are looking to having her finish the school year up there (they live more than an hour away from me) so, she would probably move here the middle of June. My adoption worker called and said the kids will be on her caseload and she will send me the packet to update my homestudy. She said there are a few supposedly interested relatives for the girl, none so far for the boy...she said that any relative basically has zero chance of getting the kids, given how long i've had D, that i want both kids, and that no relatives were consistently visiting and maintaining any bond while they were in FC. It is pretty typical for my agency to choose long term foster families over half-interested relatives, it seems. And a concern i have that she shared was that any relative coming forth now is just due to the mom begging them to "get her dd" and they would likely turn her back over to the mom. She really needs some space from her mom because the relationship was not healthy.

I think the reason i thought they would or should have a goodbye visit is that they were visiting every single week for more than a year. It seems weird to suddenly have that stop without some kind of "ending" to it. I mean, its weird for ME i can only imagine how the kids feel.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Sierra

queenjane, is the nagging issue for you more the ethics or the sadness of the "goodbye?" I had a really hard time especially with the former with dd's adoption, and her mom was not nearly as amazing at the visits (she certainly never brought dd anything and rarely asked much about her). In my case, I felt a lot of peace after reading the full disclosure file.

I just cant imagine never seeing my kids again, and not knowing the last time i saw them was THE last time yknow? Just makes me sad to think about. And part of it is selfish in that in some ways i envisioned being a type of...not quite a role model i guess...but a friend...to the bmom, i was hoping that i could be a positive influence in her life and she would turn things around, if not with these kids then maybe for future ones. Sounds a little silly when i type it out. This isnt a Hallmark movie after all.

I am now feeling a little "played" by the mom. I dont know if thats the case or not...but i was really nice to her. Even in the beginning, when i thought she was a little nuts (she grew on me LOL), i was nice, brought pics, totally respected her role as mom (when D would come running or crying for me, i'd pat him then say "go to your mom" and things like that...i wanted her to know that i wasnt trying to "steal her kid" yknow?)...she tried to turn me against the bdad and i fell for it (she accused him of domestic violence, for example) then come to find out she may have made it all up based upon how she protected him in court....that sort of thing...she told me that she tested "positive" for one drug screen but that it was a pain med, found out in court it was ecstasy. I didnt realize the extent of her alcohol abuse.

I bet i find out tons more when i get the child assessment stuff and see what they havent told me (as FP we only get so much info...i had Keegan for almost a year and didnt find out what had happened to his older sibs to bring him into care until finalization, nor did i find out that his bmom was in fact diagnosed with a mental illness, until i was signing final papers.) At this point i know next to nothing about the sister, and she is the one that was most screwed up by her mom. So...i'm thinking i'll have alot less empathy once i see all the info.

Its just hard to have someone be in your life on a weekly basis and then have them not be. But in some ways its a bit of a relief too. Its weird how even just this week the relationship between D and me has grown...its like i KNOW he is staying now, and i didnt realize i was holding back until i wasnt holding back anymore. He just started calling me "mom" very recently so it seems he knows something is up too. Now all day i hear "mom? whatcha doin?" "Mom? hi!" "mom?? mom!!!" LOL

[tiffani]

do you have contact info for the parents? I think if it were me, I'd probably call or send an email (not yet, of course, after the kids are with you and secure) and just say that the kids need some time and space to heal from all of this, and in the future you'd love to send her updates, and MAYBE even do short, occasional visits if they are capable of keeping it together for the kids. more politely, of course, but something along those lines. or maybe ask your worker what you might be allowed to communicate to her?

I guess I just don't think it's really ok for the state/county to take away someone's children and say "that's it forever for you and these kids, no matter what." just because someone can't parent a child doesn't mean they can't still be a very small part of the child's life -- it would be beneficial to the kids as well, as long as the parent was positive and appropriate. I do realize that the odds of a person who had their parental rights terminated being positive and appropriate is slim to nil, but it seems really awful to put the parents and the children through a "get a good look because this is the last time you'll ever see each other unless this kid seeks you out when he's an adult " visit... every situation is so different, there just can't be one blanket rule for everyone... and I'm well aware that in the majority of cases, it is probably best for there to be no contact, but certainly not every case...

though if a clean break is best for the kids, then that's what has to happen, at least until a child is secure in their new family, and birthmom/dad can act in the best interests of a child during visits/phone calls, etc.

it's tough.

[tiffani]

and hooray for moving into a more special place with your little guy.