Child Care fees - what is reasonable?

[SeekingSerenity]

(x-posted in Parenting)

For those who have their children with a private sitter, or any type of outside (non-family) child care, what do you pay on a per-day basis?

The reason I ask is this: about six weeks ago, a friend of mine called, very distraught over the level of care her current sitter was giving. Apparently, she witnessed the sitter roughly handling another child and had heard her own children saying "Miss K is gonna beat my @ss if I have an accident." She was desperate to get her kids out of there. It was a home-based daycare, the only care provider being an older lady who was watching 10 children ranging in ages from less than a year to about 8 (plus her own 3 grandchildren after school).

My friend has twin daughters who will be 4 in a couple of weeks (one of them is not completely PL'd yet). She didn't really want to ask me to watch her girls, since I am a stay-at-home mom who attends online school, has three kids to watch and is homeschooling the older two who are with me at home. But I live only about 3 minutes from her restaurant, and she trusts me. So, me being me, I jumped in and offered. I really didn't think about the cost. I just assumed she'd pay me what she was paying the other lady and it would be reasonable.

It turns out that what she was paying Miss K and is now paying me is equivalent to $25 a day. For two kids. It's been a long time since I had any children in daycare, but I checked out fees about a year ago and it was WAYYYY more than that! Heck, the fees 14 years ago were more than that for some places!

Honestly, I am starting to not like this situation. The stress of having five kids - four of them age 4 and under - has caused multiple break-through fibro flare-ups, the last one knocking me completely out for several days. It's tough because she doesn't raise her kids the way I raise mine, so there's a lot of conflict with the girls. They've figured out they can walk all over me since I try not to do many time-outs, and I take the AP approach to difficulties between the kids, while their mom doesn't really do much discipline of any kind until the girls get out of control - then she yells and spanks.

Anyway, the end result is that it is HARD watching her kids. They don't behave, they're very disruptive and they absolutely won't listen to me unless I raise my voice. To top it off, most of the time their mom brings them a hot lunch from her cafe, but once or twice a week she gets too busy to leave and I end up feeding them.

Also, every other Friday they go with their dad, but on the alternate Fridays when I have them, the restaurant has extended hours so the girls are at my house from 7:30 am until 8:30 pm and I have to give them dinner. Plus on those with-mom weekends, I think she wants me to start picking up the sitting duties on Saturdays as well, and she mentioned that since every other Friday they're not with me, she should get that alternate Saturday with no extra cost.

The bottom line is I am not getting enough. $12.50 per day per child? Geez. Great deal, right?

I am thinking of telling her I will watch them, not for a flat weekly fee, but for a daily fee of $40, which is $20 per child per day. That way she will only pay $160 on the 4-day weeks, and $200 on the 5-day weeks, plus if she needs a Saturday babysitter, she knows how much extra it will be. Is $100 a week for child-care for a 4-year old reasonable? I think it is...

If she does not like the increase, I will offer her two more weeks at her regular price but she has to find someone else for childcare.

I think I can tolerate the added stress if I am making a decent amount for what I am providing. I doubt she can find anyone else who will give her this price. I love her to pieces, but I don't think that is a good reason to let her have the Deal of the Century while I put myself through all the stress.

Is this a good price? Basically $20 per day, per 4-year old child, for a total of $40 per day for twins?

[Chamomile Girl]

Seriously, $800 a month? For two kids? To have my one child in care here would cost me $1300 a month...and that is the cheapie subsidised by the school price. And never later than 5:30.

Maybe you could call around to see what is normal for your area.

[Mosaic]

Simply put? No.

I think your proposed rates are reasonable. Extremely reasonable. TOO reasonable, in fact. But my general feel for this situation is that even if quadruple your rates, this situation is not going to make you feel appropriately compensated and just plain won't go well. If this were any regular person and not a friend, I don't think you would even consider entering into a child care arrangement like this. Between the vastly different parenting styles plus your health and familial obligations, I just don't think this is a good fit.

Yes, someone else might charge her more, but for a better fit, it's worth it. And while making more money does make some things more tolerable for a while, it also makes things more miserable for a while. I've eventually learned that the money, honestly, is just not worth health and happiness, not even for a limited time frame.

Good luck...

[doubledutch]

i pay $35 a day for a "preschool" style day care for my 4yo. that includes breakfast, lunch and a snack. the day is very structured and there's a tight 3-year age range. all kids are potty-trained - the preschool has a toddler program at another location for kids who aren't pt'd yet, and that costs more.

i think that's a typical rate for my area. that's for a 10 hour day. home daycare costs a little less but not that much less. no way is it under $2/hour!

[MissMommyNiceNice]

When I was looking for in home daycares for my oldest DS, the average rate for in-home care on a daily part-time basis was $25 to $35 a day. Most places provided food/snacks. I live in a very lowcost area though.

I have a great situation now where a neighbor keeps him one day a week & I pay in homecooked meals. They don't cook though, so it's great for them. Obviously I wouldn't expect that to be the case if it was 4 or 5 days a week.

Your new rates seem reasonable. I would also probably ask for extra for food or to send more food along. Even if it's like a box of granola bars, some bananas, a jug of milk, or a jar of peanut butter. Something to ease the snacking burden.

[34me]

You are more than reasonable. When my 16 yo dd was in daycare I paid $25 a day (or $110 a week) which included everything, but that was 14 years ago. And there was no such think as an 10+ hour day They were 9 hours max. If you were not her friend this would be business and a business owner is allowed to have a life too.

[crunchy_mommy]

I hear that daycares in my area run about $250 a week for one child -- so that's $50 a day. Unless you are in a very very low COL area, I think even $20 per child is way too low. I would also consider having different rates for nights/weekends -- because I'm sure that conflicts with your family time to some extent! I know you want to help your friend out but letting her take advantage of you won't help your friendship (and if her former DCP was really charging that little a day maybe it was because she was watching up to 13 kids, that's insane!!!) When I was working full-time from home, I was paying my sister (yes my own sister, while I was right there helping/doing all feedings & naps) about $65 a week for two afternoons (4 hours each), which I thought was very fair even though it was more than I could afford. You don't want to be making less than minimum wage!!!

You might also consider charging extra for late pickups, meals (if she normally provides them but sometimes "forgets") etc. I would write up some kind of agreement so you both know what to expect from each other & neither feels resentful or taken advantage of.

[jimblejamble]

No. That's how much I made for watching one baby (4 mo) and it wasn't enough.

[jimblejamble]

Originally Posted by Mosaic

Simply put? No.

I think your proposed rates are reasonable. Extremely reasonable. TOO reasonable, in fact. But my general feel for this situation is that even if quadruple your rates, this situation is not going to make you feel appropriately compensated and just plain won't go well. If this were any regular person and not a friend, I don't think you would even consider entering into a child care arrangement like this. Between the vastly different parenting styles plus your health and familial obligations, I just don't think this is a good fit.

Yes, someone else might charge her more, but for a better fit, it's worth it. And while making more money does make some things more tolerable for a while, it also makes things more miserable for a while. I've eventually learned that the money, honestly, is just not worth health and happiness, not even for a limited time frame.

Good luck...

[Grace and Granola]

I just started babysitting for two families. I started with a 14mo and asked for $30/day and the parents agreed. I then took on a 3yo whose parents lost their sitter. They had been paying $25/day, but heard I was charging $30 and they were fine with that. In the future I might ask more for kids under two and less for kids over two because it really is a huge difference since my kids are 3 and 4.

I'm not sure where you live, but I asked a few people who I know that watch kids and they charge anywhere between 25-35/day. But I've seen ads on craigslist go as low as $15. I think you have to ask for as much as it takes to make it worth it to you. I think if it was a sibling set I might give a discount for the second child.

[zebra15]

Honestly, its going to be very difficult to change the arrangement now. If the mom is a single mom with twins working at a cafe she may not have any extra $$ (i know thats not your problem) however...

I did inhome care for awhile and everything I did was in a contract format. That means everything was in writing. From the weekly rate, times of childcare, when the fee would be paid, how it would be paid (CASH ONLY and I would give reciepts), who provided what food, what discipline methods I used and how many 'strikes' each child got before they were asked to leave my care.... yes my contract was several pages long but everyone understood what they were getting into and I was covered.

If I was in your postion, I would give this mom a 2 week notice and just let her know this arrangment isnt working out and as of xx/xx you can no longer watch her kids.

BTW around here saturdays cost double what M-F cost.

[Rosebud1]

Zebra,

You sound really on the ball! Not to hijack, but if I PM you, would you share your contract with me? I think having parameters is really important for people doing in home care.

Rosebud1

[Smithie]

Yeah, you want to get right out of this situation, no matter what she can pay. You have a whole lot going on in your house right now.

Around here, $25/day for two kids would be on the extreme low end of unlicensed home daycares, of which there are a lot since this is an impoverished area with many SAHMs trying desperately to hold their families together financially and going the childcare route. I don't doubt that some of those women are providing excellent care that is worth much more than they charge - but some of them, no doubt, are beating a$$ when kids pee their pants. This (unlicensed daycare) is just not a business that you want to go into if you aren't desperate for the cash.

[calebsmommy25]

Mama, it sounds like you have your hands full. You def. are right for asking more money, but I'm not sure how well that will go over now. Even with the extra money, will it be worth it? Beneficial to you and your family? Is it something YOU really want to do, or are you thinking about continuing because you want to help out this mama?

I have watched children here in my home (2 at the most, on top of my own lo) and have charged anywhere from $30-50 a day. Depending on what they were able to pay without breaking the bank. There were a couple of families that I had to stop watching the children because we were just not a good fit. I feel it is very important to mesh well with the families you get involved in...that includes being on the same page with payment, food, pick-up, hours, etc. as well as, parenting styles and expectations.

I like to help people, and hate to put anyone out...but, if it were me I think I would tell her that I could watch her children for a couple of more weeks while she finds someone else. Explain as much or as little as you want to.

[AAK]

I watch two kids one day a week. They are siblings 5 & 2. I get $75/day total. Actually, they seem to pay more hourly $7.50/hour. I only know this because if they pick up early, my pay is adjusted. These kids aren't easy--but it is nothing like what you described. And, I don't feel overpaid at all. Maybe a bit "underpaid" if anything.

[greenmansions]

When I looked into a home-based daycare for my kids it was going to be $17 an hour for both of them, aged 2 and 4 at the time - about 2 years ago. They had 3 or 4 other kids there then too. We chose other options (preschool) because it was too expensive.

[doubledutch]

oh yeah, i almost forgot. in the late 90s, i nannied for three summers. i watched two kids, who were ages 4 & 6 the first year. i got $250/week minus social security, so like $217 i think. anyway, $50/day. they paid the set weekly rate even if they gave me a day off (like for 4th of july).

on one hand, it was a hcol area and the older child was developmentally delayed. on the other hand, it was 10+ years ago and i was a teenager, and it was in their home, and they provided all the food (yum!). what kind of care can anyone expect to get for $12.50 a day?!

[bobandjess99]

In my area, amongst the poverty/lower working classes, that would be the going rate. The people in that situation simply can't pay any more. If you take a person working for minimum wage or therabouts, what else do you expect them to pay?? If you make $7.50 per hour, first there are taxes. even at teh lowest possible tax rates, they still take soem for SS and stuff, so your bring home on that $7.50 is maybe $6/hour. So...when you have a parent working to BRING HOME $6 per hour, how much of that do you think they can afford to pay their daycare provider? Assuming a 40 hour week, that womans check woudlo only be maybe $240 for the entire week. By payign you $100-125 of that, she is already giving you half of what she makes. , leaving her with what? $100 per week to live on? And she has to pay for housing and food and everything on..what a grand total of $400 per month??

It truly is the lower working class conundrum.

I realize in some places, childcare costs much more, and in many socioeconomic groups, they pay a lot more for childcare. But the reality for these types of poverty-class working families/women is that they are stuck with the llegal provideres who take in 10 kids at a measly rate. It's a really sad social issue.

On the other hand, no way in hell would I watch someone else's poorly-behaved chidlren, sacrificing my own health and family serenity. I work darn hard to make sure my kids are NOt poorly behaved little brats, and I've already seen firsthand what happens even when my kids play with the type children you are describing, and it is awful. I'd feel bad about it, but I'd probably tell her that as of "a date in time 2-3 weeks out" I coudl no longer watch her kids. Period. i think trying to jack up the price won't work. As I've just illustrated, chanceas are she CAN'T,not won't, but CAN'T give you any more money.


For the record, full time care around here, for the lower classes, can run as little as $10/day per child, upt o maybe $25 per day. That's what i pay. That's reasonable here.

[SeekingSerenity]

Originally Posted by bobandjess99

In my area, amongst the poverty/lower working classes, that would be the going rate. The people in that situation simply can't pay any more. If you take a person working for minimum wage or therabouts, what else do you expect them to pay?? If you make $7.50 per hour, first there are taxes. even at teh lowest possible tax rates, they still take soem for SS and stuff, so your bring home on that $7.50 is maybe $6/hour. So...when you have a parent working to BRING HOME $6 per hour, how much of that do you think they can afford to pay their daycare provider? Assuming a 40 hour week, that womans check woudlo only be maybe $240 for the entire week. By payign you $100-125 of that, she is already giving you half of what she makes. , leaving her with what? $100 per week to live on? And she has to pay for housing and food and everything on..what a grand total of $400 per month??

Actually... she owns the cafe. You should see this place... can't find a place to park on most days. That's why she stays open 12 hours on Fridays - it's all-you-can-eat catfish day, and she rakes in customers hand over fist. She's been renting a lake-view split-level home with a loft and a tiered balcony with a jacuzzi for $1000 a month. She's just now moving to a different neighborhood to be closer to her boyfriend.

I am not saying she is rolling in money - she's a small-business owner, I KNOW that's not the case! But she's not living on $400 a month. She was just telling me about how she wishes she could put her kids on Medicaid because her private insurance is so much, but she doesn't qualify.

I totally understand the lower working-class conundrum. It's why I couldn't stay separated from my husband last time we split up. I couldn't afford it. Working full time with three kids and no help... child care would have cost more than I brought home, at the subsidized day care center and that was including one child attending public school and only needing the center in the PM!

However, I told my friend yesterday and she got quite upset. I didn't get a chance to offer her two more weeks at her current rate so she could find someone else. She just said "Thanks for everything you've done" and left. She said she couldn't afford $160 a week. On one hand I feel really crappy because she acted truly angry and although I don't see why it should ruin our friendship, I think it might. On the other hand I am kind of upset because why should she expect me to short-change myself and put myself in a bad position just because we are friends? She knows how hard it is to watch her own children - when I was sick and she had to keep them for a couple of days, she called to check on me and said she needed "a break from these girls, they're driving me NUTS." (Her own kids!)

So all in all, it didn't turn out well. I could use the extra money but I am not going to advertise or anything. For one thing, I'm not licensed. For another, I just think it's probably better this way. I have my own three, my own school, my health and my home to take care of.

Good luck, everyone. Truly, I don't know how you mamas do it. I was counting on a friend's support too, when I was trying to go out on my own, and she backed out on me after I had my baby. I remember that panicky feeling of "OMG, there is NO WAY I can swing this!!" You mamas are truly amazing.

[bobandjess99]

Originally Posted by SeekingSerenity

Actually... she owns the cafe. You should see this place... can't find a place to park on most days. That's why she stays open 12 hours on Fridays - it's all-you-can-eat catfish day, and she rakes in customers hand over fist. She's been renting a lake-view split-level home with a loft and a tiered balcony with a jacuzzi for $1000 a month. She's just now moving to a different neighborhood to be closer to her boyfriend.

I am not saying she is rolling in money - she's a small-business owner, I KNOW that's not the case! But she's not living on $400 a month. She was just telling me about how she wishes she could put her kids on Medicaid because her private insurance is so much, but she doesn't qualify.

I totally understand the lower working-class conundrum. It's why I couldn't stay separated from my husband last time we split up. I couldn't afford it. Working full time with three kids and no help... child care would have cost more than I brought home, at the subsidized day care center and that was including one child attending public school and only needing the center in the PM!

However, I told my friend yesterday and she got quite upset. I didn't get a chance to offer her two more weeks at her current rate so she could find someone else. She just said "Thanks for everything you've done" and left. She said she couldn't afford $160 a week. On one hand I feel really crappy because she acted truly angry and although I don't see why it should ruin our friendship, I think it might. On the other hand I am kind of upset because why should she expect me to short-change myself and put myself in a bad position just because we are friends? She knows how hard it is to watch her own children - when I was sick and she had to keep them for a couple of days, she called to check on me and said she needed "a break from these girls, they're driving me NUTS." (Her own kids!)

.

OK...in this situation, it soudns like she was CHOOSING not to pay more for childcare, versus truly not being ABLE, and in that case, I woudn't feel guilty at ALL. If she is angry about it, she's really more of a user than a friend anyway, you know?