On a scale of one to ten how mad would you be? - Page 3

[hakeber]

It's so great to hear all the different opinions on the matter. Just when you think you know what common sense is

I think I am just going to keep Benjamin here and ask him not to go over to her house. Right now she's here. Her mom just stopped by to tell Maggie she was going to church. No one will be home at her house until her mom gets back, so I invited Maggie for dinner again (with her mom's okay). DH thinks I should just send her home. I haven't got the heart.

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

Honestly if I were the other parent I'd be really puzzled as to why you're upset. From your description (basically a locked down area, kids freely floating between houses, doors open, etc.) it sounds a lot like a big community living area where the kids are free to go where they want to. You've given every indication that you are fine with that. So one parent leaves for a few minutes, if the kids are scared they can go to the next house. Now, this may be all off, but really, that sounds like what you're describing, and if that's the case given the level of supervision you routinely provide, I can't really see why you'd expect the mom to think her leaving for a few minutes would upset you. And really, unsecured guns and illegal drugs?? You're seriously worried about that and still let your kid run into any house or visit without checking it out first. This is all really confusing to me.

No, I totally understand that might not have she seen a problem with it. After all, she did it, and I am glad not to have said anything yet to her or Maggie's dad. But I still see a big difference between kids playing over at one another's houses with grown ups present and communicating with one another and kids being closed inside houses with no adults around.

FTR, I didn't mean illegal drugs necessarily, (though you never really know, do you?) but we have pharmaceuticals in high cupboards and in the "parents'" bathroom. Benjamin can't reach them if I am in because I would stop him and he'd probably not think to do it , but if I weren't home I can't garuntee he wouldn't be able to get them. And though I would never have a gun in MY home almost everyone I know here does, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. I trust with a grown up home they aren't going get into those things.

[claddaghmom]

What you describe is almost my #1 reason for buying the condo we're in right now.

I do agree that being outside, in earshot/sight, is much different than being unsupervised in another person's home with friends.

BUT

Despite that, the point is he got into that situation when you thought he was out at the park, so clearly this is not as utopian as you're hoping.

Depending on your 5yo, you might be able to just explain to him the rules, mention it briefly to the parent and move on. But IME 5yo will not necessarily remember or comply with rules like that.

So I'd re-evaluate how "supervised" he is in this unsupervised environment.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

apples and oranges.

Explain.

How is leaving a 5 year old unattended outside all that different from leaving a 5 year old unattended inside?

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

...Despite that, the point is he got into that situation when you thought he was out at the park, so clearly this is not as utopian as you're hoping.

Yeah, except I knew he was going over to her house...he told me he was going and then her mom called me to tell me he was there. I expected to find him there, just not alone with the door closed in their house hanging out in the kicthen climbing on thier bar stools...ya know?

FWIW, he is excellent at listening to what he's been told and not forgetting important rules like that. When it's really important, he has never forgotten.

Musician Dad, the difference for me is that there is a lot more opportunity for trouble inside a house. There are ovens and stoves, tippable bookshelves, tvs with adult channels and movies accessible, expensive equipment and machines that can be broken, any number of hidey holes with illicit or inappropriate things in them, or places where they can get stuck...Outside there are sidewalks, a swing set and climbing frame, a few grassy stretches and a gaggle of peers and adults watching them between 3 and 6:00pm when the sun sets. There aren't even spaces between the houses for hiding in. So for me outside, you can see them running around at any given moment or see someone who can see them who will give you the thumbs up, inside only the parent of the house can see them or hear them, so if one isn't there...

I think just the next time she calls to say Benjamin has come over, I will ask her to call me if she needs to go out and her dh isn't around, that I'd be happy to let them play at my house if they don't want to be outside anymore.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Explain.

How is leaving a 5 year old unattended outside all that different from leaving a 5 year old unattended inside?

I think it can be very different. If DD was hanging out in the backyard, or in the playground which is along my backyard, I could pop my head out and see her, talk to her, etc.

If she was inside another person's house, I could not hear her or see her, and I could not verify the environmet. She could cut herself trying to prepare food and be lying on the kitchen floor bleeding to death for all we know.

Of course, this is all hypothetical to me b/c my DD is 16 months and needs 130% supervision right now. In the time it took me to lock the stroller brakes today, she had already climbed onto the tallest slide and was trying to climb on the "outside" of the tube if that makes sense.

[claddaghmom]

hakebr, I missed that part of your OP. IF there was prior consultation and then he was left alone, I would be angry. If this is a family philosophy, you will just need to make your guidelines clear to the parents (and DS). I mean, at this point and depending on the laws, I don't think anything else can be done. I would be really angry if I verified and called and DD asked permission...and then the parent just left without saying anything.


ETA: seen in that light, I would even say this whole outside/inside debate is off-topic. The point is WHO was the caregiver? You thought SHE was supervising. She did not make it clear that she was going to stop supervising the children.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by hakeber

Musician Dad, the difference for me is that there is a lot more opportunity for trouble inside a house. There are ovens and stoves, tippable bookshelves, tvs with adult channels and movies accessible, expensive equipment and machines that can be broken, any number of hidey holes with illicit or inappropriate things in them, or places where they can get stuck...Outside there are sidewalks, a swing set and climbing frame, a few grassy stretches and a gaggle of peers and adults watching them between 3 and 6:00pm when the sun sets. There aren't even spaces between the houses for hiding in. So for me outside, you can see them running around at any given moment or see someone who can see them who will give you the thumbs up, inside only the parent of the house can see them or hear them, so if one isn't there...

Wait you said the kids were 5 right? Does your 5 year old routinely try to climb bookcases, use the oven or mess with equipment and machines without permission? Do most 5 year olds act that way? Mine never have, but my experience is pretty limited to them, so the idea that 5 year olds would act that way is completely foreign to me, but I realize I may just have gotten lucky on that one and not know.

[hakeber]

I think two otherwise sensible and responsible five year olds left together can scheme up silly crazy things that might otherwise never occur to them, yes.

But that is just based on my experience with watching and teaching little kids.

[eclipse]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

ETA: seen in that light, I would even say this whole outside/inside debate is off-topic. The point is WHO was the caregiver? You thought SHE was supervising. She did not make it clear that she was going to stop supervising the children.

That's what the issue would be for me. If my child were running around playing outside, but under my supervision - I would be checking outside periodically, etc. If I thought the mom down the street was supervising, it wouldn't occur to me to check up on my child.

[rainbowmoon]

leaving a 5yo outside unattended WHILE YOU ARE HOME (And available if an emergency arises) and then leaving two 5yo's and taking off in your car and leaving them ALONE (where you will be gone if an emergency arises) is two totally different things. totally unacceptable.

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Explain.

How is leaving a 5 year old unattended outside all that different from leaving a 5 year old unattended inside?

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by hakeber

Yeah, except I knew he was going over to her house...he told me he was going and then her mom called me to tell me he was there.

This makes a big difference IMO. By calling you the other mother, IMO, took responsibility for him. I wouldn't leave the house or anything, but I would expect that I would get a call if this changed (if DS said he wanted to go home, a heads up call from the mom or if she needed to leave, the family was going to eat...). Initially it sounded like DS just headed over there with no input of the other parents (at which point I do not consider him their responsibility and would actually, as the other parent, kinda wonder about someone just letting their 5 year old go to other peoples houses w/out permission).

[meemee]

i voted chill out. for the exact reason you wrote.

at 5 my dd was mature enough and with neighbours all around i would have no qualms doing what the other mom did.

in fact i know quite a few moms who leave their child alone in their apts and go and do things because they have helpful neighbours who keep an eye out on the child. the child is still at home alone - but i dont really call that alone with help 20 secs away.

[eclipse]

I think there's a big difference between leaving your own 5 year old home alone for a few minutes and leaving someone else's 5 year old home alone when you are the person the parent expects to be supervising. I think it's normal to expect that the other parent in this situation to call and say something like "I need to leave but the girls are still here. My husband will be here in 5 minutes. Can your dd stay and wait for him, or should I send her home?"

[pianojazzgirl]

Somewhat OT...

I'm concerned that the little girl is scared when her mom leaves her alone. It may be that she is responsible or capable enough to be left alone for short periods of time, but since she's expressed to you on a couple of occasions that she feels scared to be left at home alone I think that's something you should bring up with the other mom. From your posts it seems like you don't mind keeping an eye on her for those times when the mom has left for school but the dad isn't home yet. Maybe you could offer to watch the girl then? I know that that's what ends up happening anyway (judging from your posts anyway), but I really do think it's important for the girl's parents to be made aware that *she* is not comfortable with the situation.

OK, that said (lol) I'm still trying to figure out how's I'd feel about your situation. Where I live is sooo far removed from how you describe your living situation I still have to wrap my mind around being comfortable with my 5 yr old outside unsupervised, let alone in someone else's house unsupervised. I do think that some good points have been made about how many potentially dangerous things there are in houses, and I certainly agree that you can put two sensible kids together and they can come up with some crazy schemes that neither one would have come up with on their own.

[mamazee]

I live in a neighborhood that sounds like the OP's, and in these situations usually the other parent would call and say, "I have to head out, but Billy's dad will be back in a few minutes. Can you keep an eye on the kids until then?" And one of us would head out to tell them that if there's a problem, Billy's mom is gone so come get me. Or, if they're playing inside, have the same conversation but send them outside to play, or have them play here. I would not be comfortable with them playing inside someone's house with no adults, partially because mine is very likely the only house on our block without a gun in it somewhere. Kids running around playing outside where I can hear them laugh and play is less scary to me than kids hanging out in someone's house with no parents around where I can't hear their voices or hop outside to see what they're up to if I feel like it. By a long shot. Not the same at all, and in fact not even slightly comparable.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by eclipse

I think there's a big difference between leaving your own 5 year old home alone for a few minutes and leaving someone else's 5 year old home alone when you are the person the parent expects to be supervising. I think it's normal to expect that the other parent in this situation to call and say something like "I need to leave but the girls are still here. My husband will be here in 5 minutes. Can your dd stay and wait for him, or should I send her home?"

Yes, this. Outside playing in a known area, mom can check on the kids whenever. Inside a house where another parent said they'd be responsible means that 1. mom isn't going to check because the other parent said they'd be responsible and 2. mom *can't* check.

In the situation in the OP, I'd bet it takes as long to check on a child at one of the parks as it would to check on them in the back yard. And I bet kids get grounded from playing outside unsupervised if they wander anywhere in the neighborhood except the parks and the area between. At least that's how it was when I was growing up. My local park wasn't line of sight from our house and was in a rather rough ungated community so we didn't get to go there alone until older than 5, but if we'd had one of the houses that were line of sight we probably would've been allowed earlier.

[Mountaingirl79]

My children are 7 and 9 and a half and i still don't leave then unattended in a house. I can totally understand that.

In our neighborhood, we live in the city, so I don't let them roam either, but we do have a fenced in yard, and they play in it while I am inside cooking or whatever and can look out at them from time to time. ( We also have a trampoline and some kid sized four wheelers so they are happy in the yard..)

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Mpenny1001

If I were the other mom and I knew you let your kid stay outside unsupervised for 30 minutes at a time, I would assume you wouldn't mind that your kid was unsupervised at my house for 10-15 minutes. It simply wouldn't occur to me that you differentiated between outside and inside.

I agree.

FWIW: I have a 5yo and 3yo, and let both play outside and walk to the playground (4 houses down, partially visible from our house) by themselves or with each other. If they are in the yard, I am often out with them but am totally comfortable with them being out by themselves. If they are at the playground, then I walk over, though it might be 10-15 minutes before I am over there. I have also left them alone in the house for 10-15 minutes while I go to the neighbors or DH drops me off at the stop near work. If my son has a playdate with a friend, I act the same. Unless the parent specifically said to me they would prefer other options. Hasn't happened yet.

[pigpokey]

Other mom definitely should have asked you if you were OK with your son being in her house when she's not there. I don't see that it has to cause any conflict. It's easy enough to comply, right?

[Jessy1019]

I really wouldn't care. If I'm trusting my kid to play in a neighborhood without my direct supervision (or any direct adult supervision), I don't think him being inside someone's house without it is a big deal.

I wouldn't leave my kid home alone, but that's largely because people can be nosy and CPS would disapprove, not because I think she'd actually be in any danger.

And judging the dad for "taking demands" from his daughter and serving popcorn for dinner? Really, who cares?! We do popcorn for dinner if we go to a dinner-time showing of a movie.