Out of ideas

[thatgirliknew]

My son is three and a half and I have joint custody with his father (that's a whole different thread altogether). I have him every other week. His dad has no rules and no discipline. My son wants something and he gets it. End of story. I've talked to his dad about setting up consistent rules and routines between houses and he is not interested, and thinks there is no problem.
So when my son is at my house, he has tantrums pretty much all day everyday and doesn't listen to anything I say. Needless to say, it upsets me greatly. Makes it harder to take care of my four month old daughter and leaves my son unhappy 24/7.

Consequences don't work. He doesn't care. I have taken away toys and privileges before. I do not believe in spanking or physical punishment. He could care less about "rewards". He is very intelligent and I know he understands what is happening. And I understand the importance of consistency between the two houses, but I have no choice. The courts say he has to go to his dad's house.

I need some ideas, mommas. Please help.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

What specific behaviors are you dealing with? If you post some examples, maybe we can help come up with ideas.

Children can learn that the rules are different in different households, but there might be more going on with him then that.

[ssh]

3.5 can be a really difficult age for kids even if they're only in one house with consistent rules. Some examples would help. A really good book for dealing with conflict and behavior issues is Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

What specific behaviors are you dealing with? If you post some examples, maybe we can help come up with ideas.

Children can learn that the rules are different in different households, but there might be more going on with him then that.

Cleaning his room, eating (it doesn't matter if it's his favorite food or one he totally hates), and going to sleep are the big three.

I've tried making cleaning a game, I've tried organizing the toys better so that he doesn't have to go through every toy to get to the ones he wants to play with (we used to just have a big toybox), I've gotten rid of A LOT of toys. He has three small cubbies, a play kitchen, and a toolbench. I've tried rewarding and taking away. Nothing works.

The same thing with eating. he just doesn't want to eat, ever. My pedi says he won't starve himself and he's still on the charts so not to worry about it, but I'm lucky if I can get him to eat half of one meal a day.

And he used to be a great sleeper, now he throws tantrums when it's time to sleep. we already have a bedtime routine. PJs, Book, song while I'm rubbing his back, etc.

[thatgirliknew]

Originally Posted by ssh

3.5 can be a really difficult age for kids even if they're only in one house with consistent rules. Some examples would help. A really good book for dealing with conflict and behavior issues is Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles by Mary Kurcinka.

Thank you for the suggestion. I just looked it up on the library website and put in a request for it. I should get it Tuesday.

[Starflower]

That's a great book. I'm sure you'll find some very useful information in there. Lots of good emotion coaching in there.

I am wondering if part of the tantrums might be how your son is dealing with the stress of the separation and with the stress of transitioning back and forth from your home to his dad's home.

Kids can have a kind of delayed emotional reaction to changes.

An example: we had to re-home a dog we had when DD was 2 years old. She seemed fine with it in January. She was fine with it until November of that same year when she went through a huge grieving process over the dog that lasted more than a month. During that time, her behavior was more difficult to deal with than usual. There was some obvious grieving, but a lot of it came out as behavioral changes.

Also, how is your son getting enough sleep? If he is tired, that could also cause him to have more tantrums.

I hope things call down for him soon.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by thatgirliknew

Cleaning his room, eating (it doesn't matter if it's his favorite food or one he totally hates), and going to sleep are the big three.

I've tried making cleaning a game, I've tried organizing the toys better so that he doesn't have to go through every toy to get to the ones he wants to play with (we used to just have a big toybox), I've gotten rid of A LOT of toys. He has three small cubbies, a play kitchen, and a toolbench. I've tried rewarding and taking away. Nothing works.

The same thing with eating. he just doesn't want to eat, ever. My pedi says he won't starve himself and he's still on the charts so not to worry about it, but I'm lucky if I can get him to eat half of one meal a day.

And he used to be a great sleeper, now he throws tantrums when it's time to sleep. we already have a bedtime routine. PJs, Book, song while I'm rubbing his back, etc.

My DD still can't clean up her stuff and she's 4. It's just too tempting to stop and play instead. She can dust, help load the laundry, pick up dishes to take to the sink, get stuff out of the frig and cabinets and put things back while helping me cook, unload grocery bags - handing me each item so I can put it all up faster. At 3 she really wasn't doing much and we never pushed it. I just asked if she wanted to help. She started really wanting to be helpful right before turning 4. Sometimes conflict about something slows down their ability to learn to do it.

About food, well we never let it be an issue because making it an issue can cause kids to eat too much or eat less. We have always just let our DD self regulate. She's gone through very picky stages but is healthy and actually big for her age. She usually doesn't eat much at one time, but does eat often. Your job is to make good food available and it's your DSs job to eat when and what his body tells him he needs.

With bedtime, how many hours is your DS expected to sleep? Sleep needs change and maybe he's no longer tired at the same time. Is he co-sleeping at one house but not the other? Mary Kurcinka also wrote Sleepless in America. I haven't read it because we haven't had problems. DD sleeps 10 hours and then is up 13 to 14 and then sleeps 10 hours again. Also 3.5 can be pretty emotional for some kids the tantrums could be just because of the age.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

DD is 5, and is just now willing to clean up. I think along with being able to clean up they also need to know why its useful to clean up, and that cognitive processing can take a while. At 3.5 she wouldn't have helped tidy up unless it was fun. Now she understands that tidying up means more room to play other things, and also can appreciate a clean space just because it looks nice. I would let the tidying up go if he doesn't want to do it - at that age, I would do it for her, so that she could develop an appreciation for how things are supposed to look, but didn't get into a power struggle with her over it. If you are worried that if he doesn't learn to keep a clean room now, he never will - don't worry; it will come in its own time.

At 3.5, she would do other kinds of chores. "Help" with washing dishes, putting the clothes into the washer and pouring the detergent in, moping the floor, sweeping with a small broom, spraying down the table and wiping it off.

Eating... 3 year olds are funny eaters. They don't usually eat regular meals at regular times like older people. They eat terribly little for a couple days, then eat a bunch, then eat little... they seem to need to graze. Having healthy snacks out and available can help. For DD, when she was 2, I made her a spot on the refrigerator shelf that was hers, and put healthy snacks there that she could choose at any time (boxes of raisins, cut up carrots, yogurt drinks, etc).

Refusing to go to bed is a common issue. It was less of an issue for DD and me because we went to bed at the same time. I would lay down with her and we would first read some books then fall asleep cuddling. Sometimes if I couldn't sleep I would get up after she was asleep. I think that might be hard for you, though, having another little one. Now, at 5, going to bed is not an issue. If she isn't feeling sleepy, she doesn't have to go to bed. But usually once we've read a few books she realizes that maybe she is tired after all.

[pianojazzgirl]

To expect your ds to clean up after himself at the age of 3.5 might be expecting a bit much, IMO&E. I think at this age we can start to lay the groundwork - pointing out how much nicer it is if our space isn't cluttered, pointing out if something (say the table) is yucky because it's messy (with, say, food), pointing out how some games are really hard to play if there are a bunch of toys lying in the way and if we pick them up then we can have more fun... that kind of thing. Besides that continue in your attempts to make cleaning up less of a drag. You can play various games: racing to get it done, trying to throw the balls in the ball bin, singing and dancing while you clean, pretending to be a certain kind of animal while you clean (squirrels hiding away nuts?), whatever you think of. My kids, while not at all into picking things up, love to scrub things clean with sponges. I get them washing the table and spot-cleaning the floor all the time!

As for the eating... I wouldn't worry about it, TBH. Put out "snack trays" so he can graze all day long. Have him sit with you at meal times, but don't sweat if he barely eats anything. Serve food in tiny portions, with 2nd (and 3rd or 4th) helpings available if desired.

Bedtime can be tough. My first thought is perhaps you could try moving his bedtime a bit earlier? Sometimes when they're overtired then it can turn into a melt-down fest, but if you try before that level of tiredness hits then it can go easier.

Good luck mama - 3.5 can be a tough age.

[meemee]

another single mommy in the same situation as you - two different houses, two different philosophies adn rules and also coming here to say that you are expecting too much.

some of it might be related to his situation. however all that you write about are normal 3 year old stuff.

the way i have found helps us is to go along with my philosophy and keep guiding dd but NOT have expectations that she will succeed 100% of the time.

you say your son is smart. i think this has more to do with it than two houses. he is pushing you to see how far he can get away with things.

3 IS a difficult age. esp. when one is so confident and knows his mind as your ds.

my dd is 7. she still complains about cleaning her room/thinks. we still fight about going to bed. and hitting. that came and went in phases and finally stopped at 5.

eating habits change. as do sleep habits.

what YOU have to do is find a way where YOU have your needs met - get breaks - so that you can deal with this hard times.

he will get everything you want him to get - just not at 3 1/2. he is still learning and figuring out how to work out social rules. it really has nothing to do with what his dad is doing at his house. he knows v. well what is accepted at YOUR house.

and this is one thing i learnt from my dd. from 3 to 5 she needed a place to vent. often. she still does - but not so much. she needs a place to be herself. both her good and 'evil' side. after a while of talking to her and seeing the big picture - i finally took all the 'hardness' as a compliment. that my dd is so comfortable round me (her dad is the complete opposite - v. structured, lots of rules, children dont have opinions)that she feels she can let herself go. i think esp. at that age they need a place to vent. my aha moment was when dd told me 'because you understand me. daddy doesnt.' mind you doesnt mean her dad is a bad father or that she doesnt love her dad. we are equal in her eyes. one is not more than the other. however our connection are different. her daddy is hte fun guy and i am the huggy feely emotional support mom.

coparenting doesnt automatically mean its 'bad' parenting or that our children are not getting the best. i know in my case it is the best for dd. to prepare her for life. she has a sense of maturity and acceptance at 7 that even her teacher is amazed at.