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Gaps?????

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I've been reading the GAPS website(thanks Pat ) and I'm wondering why a person wouldn't do GAPS? I'm thinking it would be good for everyone....right?

DD doesn't have any severe issues like ADD, ADHD, autism etc but has some things going on I'm concerned about. Considering I was on antibiotics(Lord knows how many times growing up) along with birth control pills and lets not forget antibiotics during labor DD gut has to be messed up right?? DD was also on antibiotics when she was 3DAYS OLD!!!!! I did nurse for 19 months but with my history I can't imagine my gut flora was/is flourishing.
post #2 of 19
I think my DS (3yo, autistic) would have a hard time with it. He has very limited tolerance for glutamates and calcium, and bone broth is high in both.

And he doesn't do soup or liquids like that at all, so I suspect he'd simply not eat (meaning he'd try to get 100% of his nutrition from me, he's still nursing).

Even if he wasn't nursing, he's nonverbal, and wouldn't understand why he could only have soup - so it would be really, really hard on him in a "why is my world suddenly totally different". And he's just learning to ask for what he wants, so I'd hate to suddenly stop responding to those requests.

Anyhow, we're probably not a typical case, but that's why I wouldn't do it .
post #3 of 19
My dd and I just finished the intro and I'm really glad we did it. I started it just for me and my dd ate the same foods by default. I noticed that she started to detox and made her stick with it. She obsessed about food, had a crappy few days and her eczema flaired big time. She's doing much better now and her eczema is clearing wonderfully. Ironically, I barely had any die off but it helped me pinpoint where my issues are stemming from.
post #4 of 19
hmmm... because almost every one of the top 8 food allergens is required in just the intro diet?
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by californiajenn View Post
My dd and I just finished the intro and I'm really glad we did it. I started it just for me and my dd ate the same foods by default. I noticed that she started to detox and made her stick with it. She obsessed about food, had a crappy few days and her eczema flaired big time. She's doing much better now and her eczema is clearing wonderfully. Ironically, I barely had any die off but it helped me pinpoint where my issues are stemming from.
That's wonderful...I really want to do it. That's the thing for me to I'm having a hard time pin pointing my issue as well. I think I have food sensitivities but when I eliminate I don't really notice a change. The same thing for DD. I need to get the book. How old is your daughter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by changingseasons View Post
hmmm... because almost every one of the top 8 food allergens is required in just the intro diet?
I haven't read the book just reading over the site so maybe it doesn't list that on the site? Hmmmm All I saw was eggs eventually and fermented dairy eventually but that's all I saw for top allergens.
post #6 of 19
Eggs is my main reason, well and that I already have to spend so much time meal planning, cooking, and shopping that I loathe to think of spending more time doing so. We are GAP friendly, about 90% grain free. I can't lose the tubers though and I can't imagine doing it w/o eggs. Just won't work for my family at this time. I think it is a great healing diet and I would do it in a heart beat if I could hire a personal assistant to help me cook.
post #7 of 19
Salicylate sensitivity.

Whoops, hit wrong button again! Got more to add here...

And other food chemical intolerances, amines and fermented foods were not at all tolerated well by DS. We didn't do GAPS, but SCD, which is almost the same thing.

Children really need bifidobacteria. Their guts are different, and are supposed to be different than adult flora to achieve oral tolerance. I know GAPS recs their probiotic with bifido?

So once I figured all this out, we decided to do digestive enzymes so all DS's food was fully digested and therefore less for the gut bugs to feed on. This and high bifido probiotics worked way better than the SCD diet.
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deditus View Post
Eggs is my main reason, well and that I already have to spend so much time meal planning, cooking, and shopping that I loathe to think of spending more time doing so. We are GAP friendly, about 90% grain free. I can't lose the tubers though and I can't imagine doing it w/o eggs. Just won't work for my family at this time. I think it is a great healing diet and I would do it in a heart beat if I could hire a personal assistant to help me cook.
Uhhh I feel ya on the cooking assistant...wouldn't that just be amazing! We also travel a lot so I worry about the effect that would have on being able to follow the diet consistently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Salicylate sensitivity.

Whoops, hit wrong button again! Got more to add here...

And other food chemical intolerances, amines and fermented foods were not at all tolerated well by DS. We didn't do GAPS, but SCD, which is almost the same thing.

Children really need bifidobacteria. Their guts are different, and are supposed to be different than adult flora to achieve oral tolerance. I know GAPS recs their probiotic with bifido?

So once I figured all this out, we decided to do digestive enzymes so all DS's food was fully digested and therefore less for the gut bugs to feed on. This and high bifido probiotics worked way better than the SCD diet.
I've been toying with the idea of digestive enzymes for DD. What is a good brand for Digestive Enzymes? DD has also been on pharmax neonate but doesn't seem to be working well for her anymore....maybe because she's almost 2 and she needs different bacteria now??? I thought I read somewhere it changes around that time??
post #9 of 19
We like Enzymedica or Houston's. Depends on the kinds of things you want to work on.

A gentle one to start with is Enzymedica Digest Basic. You can open the capsule and mix into the first bites of food. I would start with 1/2 capsule for one meal per day, then go to 2 meals per day, then 3. Gradually then one whole capsule for first meal of day, stay with 1/2 cap for rest... and so on. Sometimes proteases can cause lots of energy so Basic is low in them, plus by doing the low and slow gradual approach, you let the body get used to the enzymes.

We have long moved all the way up to Digest Gold for every meal and snacks (Digest would be the next step after Basic, then strongest Digest Gold) but my son is 6 and eats a TON of food, most of the time more than me!

www.Enzymedica.com also has a lot of information and other products to use between meals for yeast, bacteria, metals, histamine, mucus, inflammation, etc. It's a great company.

We used to do Houston's and now are switching back to them to see if it can help his food intolerances with high xylanase for phenols/salicylates. Zyme Prime is the gentlest. Then ZyCarb. The strongest is TriEnza. TriEnza can help with gluten and casein digestion as well. Houton's approach is more geared to general digestion only.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
We used to do Houston's and now are switching back to them to see if it can help his food intolerances with high xylanase for phenols/salicylates. Zyme Prime is the gentlest. Then ZyCarb. The strongest is TriEnza. TriEnza can help with gluten and casein digestion as well. Houton's approach is more geared to general digestion only.
It's not well labelled, Jane - but look at their CarbGest - it's phenol targeted, and for us, works as well/better than no fenol.
post #11 of 19
Oops, forgot the probiotic question.

Once a child starts to eat food, their gut flora changes with more lactobacillus and other major species growing and the bifido lessening. Studies have shown that it doesn't fully mimic an adult's flora until age 6-7.

What kind of symptoms are you noticing that the probiotic should help with but isn't? It could be food allergies/intolerances rather that just gut flora issues. If you've got an inflamed gut from eating food that is causing it, the right bacteria has a hard time adhering.

DS has used Pharmax Intensive and Mindlinx b/c they are FOS free.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
It's not well labelled, Jane - but look at their CarbGest - it's phenol targeted, and for us, works as well/better than no fenol.
KEWL!
TY, I didn't even know about that one, it's new. And Enzymedica changed their names in last several years and made an already confusing process of choosing the correct enzymes even MORE confusing.

I'm done with the sal intolerance, sooooooo done!!!!
post #13 of 19
I hear you on sals - my feverent wish is to be able to eat cherries by the time cherry season hits here (I swear, DS will be getting weaned if I can't - *I* don't have sals intolerance ).

And yeah, Enzymedica doesn't do nearly as good a job as HNI at identifying what products to use in which situations, but they are specifically going after the autism market, hence the CarbGest.
post #14 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamafish9 View Post
It's not well labelled, Jane - but look at their CarbGest - it's phenol targeted, and for us, works as well/better than no fenol.
This sounds interesting...what does phenol targeted mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Oops, forgot the probiotic question.

Once a child starts to eat food, their gut flora changes with more lactobacillus and other major species growing and the bifido lessening. Studies have shown that it doesn't fully mimic an adult's flora until age 6-7.

What kind of symptoms are you noticing that the probiotic should help with but isn't? It could be food allergies/intolerances rather that just gut flora issues. If you've got an inflamed gut from eating food that is causing it, the right bacteria has a hard time adhering.

DS has used Pharmax Intensive and Mindlinx b/c they are FOS free.
As far as what I'm wanting to treat with enzymes:
constipation,bloated often(mild-moderate)
dry skin
some undigested food in poop(beans,blueberries and grapes)but maybe normal for her age since she doesn't fully chew food.
My instinct tells me DD isn't absorbing nutrients as well as she should(she's thin but eats like a horse,dry hair in spots,tooth decay)
Her creatinine is low .30 so I guess that's means she's not breaking down protein well??
High T4 1.6 again not absorbing nutrients well/deficiencies. These are jsut my guesses anyway

The probiotic helped immensely last summer when she was SEVERELY constipated then I back off for a period of time while her bowels stayed regular but recently she became constipated again, going everyday but was struggling to pass little nuggets so back to probiotic and it's not really helping this time.....
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
bump bump
post #16 of 19
"Phenol targeted" means that the high xylanase enzymes work on some people's reactions to phenols and salicylates in fruits and veggies.
http://www.enzymestuff.com/nofenolfile.htm

Thyroid problems can indeed cause all of those symptoms, dry skin/hair, constipation.

Have you tested for celiac disease?

What probiotics are you using? Have you tried enzymes yet? They can help with constipation too.
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thyroid problems can indeed cause all of those symptoms, dry skin/hair, constipation.

Have you tested for celiac disease?

What probiotics are you using? Have you tried enzymes yet? They can help with constipation too.[/QUOTE]

No haven't tested for celiac...didn't think it was an issue for her but maybe I'm wrong....

the weirdest things or the symptom that bothers me the most is her under eyes get very puffy in the am then lessen throughout the day. some days are worse than others but they look SO puffy

We use pharmax neonate, getting enzymes soon just have to figure out which ones
post #18 of 19
I was going to ask some questions on a separate post, but this post seems to cover pretty much all the things I want to know.

First of all, I wanted to ask why someone WOULD start a SCD. I understand that people love it, but it's so not fun being on a restrictive diet, and besides the chemical intolerances it's just hard to stay consistant. We eat a whole foods diet based on Nourishing Traditions so while we don't eat a lot of carbs and grains, we do eat some (soaked and well cooked, as per the book). My kids don't have any symptoms that I'm super concerned about (no ADD, ADHD, Autism Spectrum, excema, wheezing now that we've been off wheat and dairy, etc). I only have minor concerns with their digestion and am looking for ways to address them without (again!) completely upending the way we eat.

Here are my concerns. My DS (18 mos) doesn't digest well. By now his poop should be well digested and semi-solid and not super noxiously stinky, right? Well, it's not. Sometimes it's like newborn BF poop (but with more chunks in it)- yellow, smells like cheese, and runny. Sometimes it's more solid and brown, but super sticky like PB (not fun to try to get off a cloth diaper!) and with chunks in it and again, super stinky. And to add to this, my DD (3.5), who has been the best pooper pretty much her whole life (1x a day regularly, well formed, not usually stinky) has has some issues in the past few weeks. She had a stomach bug two weeks ago (puked about 4 times in two hours and felt crappy the rest of the day). Since then she hasn't exactly had diarrhea, but her pooping has been more frequent and runnier. It's also much more urgent, like when she says she has to go she has to go NOW or else...

I've been giving them probiotics and occasional yogurt (despite the dairy intolerance, they have little problem with yogurt every few days). And I had started giving DS some digestive enzymes, but then I noticed he wasn't eatting. You know, kids do that sometimes and he wasn't complaining, so I didn't think about it. Then one day I grabbed a piece of meat off his plate and it was DISGUSTING. I was like "no wonder you haven't been eating!" It was super bitter. The brand I bought is Solary Super Digestaway. It's so hard to pick- there are so many, and they all do different things. I picked this one because it seemed "well rounded" (it says it helps digest proteins, fats, and carbohydrates) and because, well, it was cheaper. I really should learn not to do that (buy the cheapest in these cases).

So, I need a suggestion for a digestive enzyme that doesn't taste. I need a better probiotic (what strains should I be looking for for an 18 month old and a 3.5 year old?).

Oh, and I wanted to know if there is any connection between wheat allergy and gluten intolerance. I know the two are very different, but can a wheat allergy develop into celiacs? Are there any studies connecting the two? Could my DS's digestion issues be signs of gluten intolerance? He's not showing any other symptoms of any sort of nutritive deficiencies. I may just have him tested to see if any of his nutrient levels are low.

So any guidance here would be appreciated, and it's good to see both sides of the SCD.
post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandislee View Post
I was going to ask some questions on a separate post, but this post seems to cover pretty much all the things I want to know.

First of all, I wanted to ask why someone WOULD start a SCD. I understand that people love it, but it's so not fun being on a restrictive diet, and besides the chemical intolerances it's just hard to stay consistant. We eat a whole foods diet based on Nourishing Traditions so while we don't eat a lot of carbs and grains, we do eat some (soaked and well cooked, as per the book). My kids don't have any symptoms that I'm super concerned about (no ADD, ADHD, Autism Spectrum, excema, wheezing now that we've been off wheat and dairy, etc). I only have minor concerns with their digestion and am looking for ways to address them without (again!) completely upending the way we eat.

Here are my concerns. My DS (18 mos) doesn't digest well. By now his poop should be well digested and semi-solid and not super noxiously stinky, right? Well, it's not. Sometimes it's like newborn BF poop (but with more chunks in it)- yellow, smells like cheese, and runny. Sometimes it's more solid and brown, but super sticky like PB (not fun to try to get off a cloth diaper!) and with chunks in it and again, super stinky. And to add to this, my DD (3.5), who has been the best pooper pretty much her whole life (1x a day regularly, well formed, not usually stinky) has has some issues in the past few weeks. She had a stomach bug two weeks ago (puked about 4 times in two hours and felt crappy the rest of the day). Since then she hasn't exactly had diarrhea, but her pooping has been more frequent and runnier. It's also much more urgent, like when she says she has to go she has to go NOW or else...

I've been giving them probiotics and occasional yogurt (despite the dairy intolerance, they have little problem with yogurt every few days). And I had started giving DS some digestive enzymes, but then I noticed he wasn't eatting. You know, kids do that sometimes and he wasn't complaining, so I didn't think about it. Then one day I grabbed a piece of meat off his plate and it was DISGUSTING. I was like "no wonder you haven't been eating!" It was super bitter. The brand I bought is Solary Super Digestaway. It's so hard to pick- there are so many, and they all do different things. I picked this one because it seemed "well rounded" (it says it helps digest proteins, fats, and carbohydrates) and because, well, it was cheaper. I really should learn not to do that (buy the cheapest in these cases).

So, I need a suggestion for a digestive enzyme that doesn't taste. I need a better probiotic (what strains should I be looking for for an 18 month old and a 3.5 year old?).

Oh, and I wanted to know if there is any connection between wheat allergy and gluten intolerance. I know the two are very different, but can a wheat allergy develop into celiacs? Are there any studies connecting the two? Could my DS's digestion issues be signs of gluten intolerance? He's not showing any other symptoms of any sort of nutritive deficiencies. I may just have him tested to see if any of his nutrient levels are low.

So any guidance here would be appreciated, and it's good to see both sides of the SCD.
JaneS named the brands of digestive enzymes they used in a post above..did you see that? I think we are going to start with Zymeprime sorry I can't help with much else....
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