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Waiting for the official word that healthcare has passed - Page 3

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
To the first bold part, what we are getting is higher taxes and a mandate to pay for insurance. Nothing is ever free where government is concerned.

To the second, the two are not comparable. With car insurance the states requirements are either tied to your drivers license or car registration ( depending on what state you live in) and no one forces you to own a car or get a DL license.

With health insurance, it's tied to your very existence.
To your first point, yes, that's why I said that would be the BEST situation. I didn't say that's what we're getting. Unless you are very very rich, your taxes aren't going up. But even if mine were, I would be fine with higher taxes if it helps the community or people with lower incomes get what they need, like health insurance.

I know that health insurance isn't like auto insurance. I think it is every person's right to have health insurance, and until that's free for everyone then I think it should be required to have it. If you have a car you have to have auto insurance. If you live here you have to have health insurance. If you work you have to pay taxes. I really do hope that the federal option is very inexpensive, especially for those that are barely making it now.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monarchgrrl View Post
I think it is every person's right to have health insurance, and until that's free for everyone then I think it should be required to have it.
Nothing is ever free for everyone. That is a financial impossibility.
post #43 of 65
I'm very happy about the 10% on tanning!!! People really need to think twice about doing that (and hey, cigarettes are taxed heavily, tanning should be, also.)

Does anyone know the income level that will have an increased tax to pay for health care reform? I think I read anyone making over 200k will pay more, but I'm not sure.
post #44 of 65
I'm sick and tired of "sin" taxes.
post #45 of 65
see, I used to work in health insurance, so there are some things that make me sing about this. The frst and foremost beng the mandate to buy. I live in MA, so I'm mandated to buy it anyway unless I want a tax penalty, and I also have to buy car insurance unless I want to drive illegally. but getting to my point: the more people in a risk pool, the better the price will be. so if healthy people need to buy in, the cost for everyone, including the very sick, evens out, so the overall price becomes lower.

the other thng is, health insurance is not like other commodties--there is a moral component to it. my preference would be for single-payer, and then if I want extra goodies, I can buy supplemental insurance, like in Canada. and if i don't need it, then great, my tax money will help those that do. And I'm okay with that.
post #46 of 65
If I can't afford health care how will I afford the penalty? How can they take money if you don't have it? I worked for a year at a food pantry that provided prescription vouchers on a limited basis--there are so many poor people without insurance. They can barely feed their families. They won't be able to pay the penalty, and they won't be able to pay one single PENNY for their own health care. Reduced fees won't help. They have no money for extra's like health care.

I just don't get it.
post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
If I can't afford health care how will I afford the penalty? How can they take money if you don't have it? I worked for a year at a food pantry that provided prescription vouchers on a limited basis--there are so many poor people without insurance. They can barely feed their families. They won't be able to pay the penalty, and they won't be able to pay one single PENNY for their own health care. Reduced fees won't help. They have no money for extra's like health care.

I just don't get it.
Getting on Medicaid will be easier, as well.
post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by witchygrrl View Post
the other thng is, health insurance is not like other commodties--there is a moral component to it. my preference would be for single-payer, and then if I want extra goodies, I can buy supplemental insurance, like in Canada. and if i don't need it, then great, my tax money will help those that do. And I'm okay with that.
So people with more money still have better health insurance/care in Canada? I didn't know this. I thought everyone had the same health insurance and access to treatment in Canada.

How will access to Medicaid be easier? Are they changing the requirements that need to be met to qualify?

I am uncomfortable with the government making people get health insurance or making them pay a fine. It may still be unaffordable for some, insurance or the fine.

What about people who just don't use regular health care services? They still have to pay for an insurance they won't use? And that is okay if someone has extra money and they are okay dumping that money into the pool, but not everybody has extra money. That money might have been better used in their family to pay for alternative health care ( chiro, naturopath, etc.) or will those types of healthcare also be covered under insurance...I am doubtful they will be.

And I wonder if single payer is workable in the USA because our country is so big. If a country is small or has a smaller population, it might work really well, but here our country is pretty big and population is fairly high. Wondering if single payer will even be workable here?

I'll go back to reading now.
post #49 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama View Post
If I can't afford health care how will I afford the penalty? How can they take money if you don't have it? I worked for a year at a food pantry that provided prescription vouchers on a limited basis--there are so many poor people without insurance. They can barely feed their families. They won't be able to pay the penalty, and they won't be able to pay one single PENNY for their own health care. Reduced fees won't help. They have no money for extra's like health care.

I just don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
Getting on Medicaid will be easier, as well.
Exactly part of the bill includes lowering, wait no, raising?, the annual income amount to be eligible for a government plan. It also has exemptions for the fine for those who are financially unable to pay.

I mean what do you do now if you or your kids get sick? miss work? go to the ER and just not pay? Are you in medical debt now?
post #50 of 65
All I know is, my husband and I are screwed by the end of August if he doesn't get a full time job with benefits. We are on transitional Medicaid. We lose it at the end of August.

With my husband's condition and the fact I have had PPD and currently on meds, we can't get an individual policy. Couldn't afford it anyway. We will not be able to afford my husband's therapy and Docs. Unless we get script assistance, we will not be able to afford his meds.
post #51 of 65


Quote:
Originally Posted by tinybutterfly View Post
So people with more money still have better health insurance/care in Canada? I didn't know this. I thought everyone had the same health insurance and access to treatment in Canada.
Just like in the US, people in Canada can go *outside* of their insurance at any time. In the US, if your insurance only covers certain things (like a hospital birth) you can choose to pay out of pocket for other things (like a home birth). In Canada if you don't want to wait a certain amount of time for a non-emergent proceedure, you can always choose to pay for faster service. If you want tests that have been determined to be non-medically necessary, you can find somewhere who will provide them for $.
post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2 View Post




Just like in the US, people in Canada can go *outside* of their insurance at any time. In the US, if your insurance only covers certain things (like a hospital birth) you can choose to pay out of pocket for other things (like a home birth). In Canada if you don't want to wait a certain amount of time for a non-emergent proceedure, you can always choose to pay for faster service. If you want tests that have been determined to be non-medically necessary, you can find somewhere who will provide them for $.
No..this isn't true...except with perhaps cosmetic surgery..but that's not covered under health care to start with. But you can't buy a test or a procedure. You cannot pay for medical service in Canada and bump the line...what you can do, if you have enough money, is fly into the US for example and buy medical testing if you don't want to wait or like the premier of Newfoundland, went to Florida for a procedure(he's very wealthy, donates his salary for being premier to charity) because he has a condo there and decided Florida was a nice place to recover. And you might have work benefits in lieu of wages for things like eyeglasses or dental care coverage or prescription drug coverage etc. But you don't get to jump the line if you have money...unless there is some big underground practice going on I'm completely unaware of..and if there is please do tell

But you can't pay for faster service for non-emergency procedures, beyond cosmetic stuff which isn't covered anyway so there are private clinics for that.
post #53 of 65
Exactly.

The extra insurance you can purchase in Canada is not for medical services like check ups, diagnostic procedures, surgery, etc. It is for dental care, prescriptions, massage therapy, eye glasses, hearing aids, etc. Those expenses can also be deducted when you file your income tax. Home birth and midwifery care are fully covered in several provinces.
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinybutterfly View Post
What about people who just don't use regular health care services? They still have to pay for an insurance they won't use? And that is okay if someone has extra money and they are okay dumping that money into the pool, but not everybody has extra money. That money might have been better used in their family to pay for alternative health care ( chiro, naturopath, etc.) or will those types of healthcare also be covered under insurance...I am doubtful they will be.
This is the big question that is on my mind.

I was once upon a time on medicaid (when pregnant with DS - worst care I have ever recieved in my life), but I dropped it when all of the alternative care physicians, chiropractors, etc. I took myself and my son to after his birth didn't accept medicaid (and the nutropath I want to take my family to now accepts NO insurance). It was a waste of time going down and filling out stacks and stacks of invasive paperwork for something I was not going to use.

I don't plan on ever taking my family or myself to a mainstream doctor ever again (we don't need the harassment of why we don't vax, circ, etc.). To top it off, we live paycheck to paycheck (I support my 5 year old son, student husband, and myself on 1 income) - there is no wiggle room for fines and mandatory health insurance. What are we suppose to do?

I get that something needed to be done, but I am just not sure forced insurance or fines is the answer.
post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by allgirls View Post
No..this isn't true...except with perhaps cosmetic surgery..but that's not covered under health care to start with. But you can't buy a test or a procedure. You cannot pay for medical service in Canada and bump the line...what you can do, if you have enough money, is fly into the US for example and buy medical testing if you don't want to wait or like the premier of Newfoundland, went to Florida for a procedure(he's very wealthy, donates his salary for being premier to charity) because he has a condo there and decided Florida was a nice place to recover. And you might have work benefits in lieu of wages for things like eyeglasses or dental care coverage or prescription drug coverage etc. But you don't get to jump the line if you have money...unless there is some big underground practice going on I'm completely unaware of..and if there is please do tell
Except that 75% of the popultion of Canada lives within 100 miles of the US border. So anyone who has the money & ability to get south 100 miles can "hop the line" anytime. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer earlier.
post #56 of 65
Zamber, you may never want to goto a mainstream medical provider... but what happens if you get in a car accident and are seriously hurt? What if your house catches on fire and you/your kids get 3rd degree burns? Or your kid wrecks his bike and breaks an arm/leg?? I get that you will not willingly goto a mainstream doctor, but some stuff theres really no option for. So, your just going to show up to the ER, there going to help you and your not going to be able to pay. So then the hospital has to pass those costs on to everyone else. THATS why we need mandated coverage. Because most of us hope we never need it. But when we need it, we NEED it. And if we don't have it, then everyone else pays for us via higher costs.

Rich people everywhere will always be able to fly/drive to another country to get better/experimental/unneccasary procedures done. Honestly, I'm all for single-payer. Then we're all in the same boat, and we can figure out how to pay for it. We'll all have the same basic level of care, and nobody will be going bankrupt and loosing their house cause' they got sick or got in a car accident or whatever.
post #57 of 65
Here is my little contribution to this conversation...

I just got out of the hospital. I except the bills will be $20k+. We have a high deductible on our insurance and will likely have to pay $10k or so. Which is impossible for us financially yet we are 'middle class'. I mean, we'll be on the hook now for this year's deductible and then next year we start at $0 again. So we'll be paying for this year's deductible PLUS adding next year's on top of it (although hopefully I'll stay out of the hospital) which just compounds the financial devastation. Further none of my meds or copays apply toward the deductible so we have an additional $1k to $2k out of pocket that doesn't even 'count'.

It seems asinine to me that I have insurance and can still face the poorhouse due to one night in the hospital. That I have insurance that costs me $200 a month out of pocket that never counts toward my deductible.

This is insurance from a Fortune 500 company that I personally helped make millions of dollars for and my DH continues to contribute to their profit. We have made them more money than they have spent on our health care.

I have no idea if the health care reform bill will end up being a good thing, but we had to do something. I hope we keep doing something so we have an equitable system that anyone can afford.

V
post #58 of 65
Mandated coverage means nothing if American's are not given affordable health care options.

Most bankruptcies here are due to medical debt, and most people who file for this reason DO have health insurance. It is not enough to 'pick a plan' with affordable premiums...that plan has to be affordable start to finish. Affordable premiums are window dressing--the deductible and co-pays for care must be affordable, the cost of prescriptions, emergency care, etc. must also be affordable. For most people, this is not the case.

I also read that most medical bankruptcies (by people who had insurance) were the result of bills totaling less than 10,000 dollars.

The reality is that most Americans do not have an extra 5 or 10 thousand dollars laying around nor do they have any way to get their hands on it to pay the deductible.

It is kind of a ticking time bomb. You pay the premiums so you can say you have healthcare...but when pressed to find money for the deductible many people can't do it.

So even though "only" 50 Million Americans are un-insured, millions and millions of those counted as currently 'insured' are in fact, just as likely to wind up in bankruptcy as the uninsured if they become ill and can't pay their deductibles.

I feel there has not been much talk about this with the health care legislation. The talk focuses on affordable premiums, without saying as much about the crisis created by deductibles.
post #59 of 65
I really like that restaurants will be required to display the nutritional content of their menu.
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by abimommy View Post
I really like that restaurants will be required to display the nutritional content of their menu.
Me too! It's actually really helpful!

V
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