making the boy scout calls AGAIN

[incorrigible]

I just want to whine at someone that understands. My son LOVE scouts...or did until boy scouts. He joined as a Tiger and earned almost every belt loop, pin, and extra award they have! Of course, got his Arrow of Light, and crossed over to boy scouts. He came at it with the same enthusiasm...at first...but is suddenly "the kid without a dad."

Most of the time, it's just "we would really like the boys to try to find an adult male to bring with" to service projects or campouts. Father, uncle, friend of the family, whatever...and if they can't, they can't...but every other boy DOES, and it's always their dad. We've tried a couple troops, and this is just a local trend. There isn't an active troop in the area that doesn't do this, so he's joined with the group at our church. All his buddies from church go there, and it's one of (if not THE) biggest and most active troop in our area.

Only, the policy for campouts (and they all have this) is that fathers MUST attend for the sons to attend. Ds's father has never attended one of his scouting activities in his life to start with, and now he's dead to boot! So, I'm doing the same song and dance I always do for these things. Call around and around trying to find someone to take him. Everyone is busy, or it's just "not my thing." When push comes to shove, ds WILL be allowed to attend the campout. He'll have a fun time, but he loses a little more of his love for scouting with every one of these events. He's frustrated and doesn't attend meetings for a couple weeks after each of these, and has less and less enthusiasm.

I hate this whole process. I hate that something that was SUCH a huge positive in his life has suddenly become the polar opposite. He has attended all these years because it was a place he could find the male role models he didn't have elsewhere...and now he's expected to have one in order to attend? I hate watching him so disappointed, and completely giving up on his biggest passion. I hate that no one cares enough about him to spend ONE night camping out at a place most of the people we know love to camp anyway, or spend 3 ***** hours pulling weeds or picking up trash on a sat morning every once in a while. it's not like he has these "fathers encouraged or required" events every weekend, or even once a month. We're talking like once a quarter! ... and we're maybe this campout and 2 more away from him dropping scouts all together. And it BITES!

[RiverSky]

Forum hopping but...

Oh, that's so so sad!!!! I'm sorry that the troop is not more sensitive to your situation.

[5gifts]

That really stinks they are like that! I'm also forum crashing, but I have had 4 boys in all levels of scouts for the past 9 years. Around here, once they got into boy scouts, we just drop them off with the troop for the weekend and its 'see ya Sun afternoon!' I love it. Its a boy-led troop that focuses on working as patrols & as a unit, with a core group of adult leaders. We live in a low key, semi-rural area. Most boys in the troop live with both parents, and all parents will hang out at meetings, offer any help needed, stay involved & catch up on current happenings/socialize, ect. But most parents do not go on outings - only the main leaders. Too many adults on camping trips detracts from the boys doing everything themselves & working together.

My husband doesn't do any scout stuff with the boys, but they work on the farm together, and do projects all the time. There are 2 families that have been in scouts for years - they both have 2 boys, Mom & Dad together. But all along the moms have been leaders & you never see the dads. But I know that those 2 dads are involved in other things with their boys - scouts just isn't their thing.

So I guess in some communities where most dad's commute/are very busy, the boy scouts are trying to make sure the boys are getting a chance to connect with the males in their lives. Here, most dad's are really involved in everyday life with their boys, or sports/hobbies.

That being said, I think that one of the other dads (of one of his friends) or one of leaders in your son's troop should be his male adult for outings. Just like a dad that has 2 boys in the troop. Then he has 1 or 2 men in the troop that are someone he 'connects with' and it should just be assumed he'll buddy up with them, instead of making it an issue to find someone for him each time. And if he has to find someone different each time, that's awkward too. The only other solution would be if he had a guy in his life that would commit to be the one to do outings with him every time and make it a priority to make the time for him. I sucks that someone can't do that for him. Maybe you could make someone in his life see it that way and step up for him.

Best of luck!

[singin'intherain]

That's outrageous. Can you talk to the leaders and tell them that this is an ongoing, not just occasional problem for your son and that it's killing his enthusiasm for scouting? If he's friends with some of the boys through church and the troop, maybe one of his friend's dads could be the dad for both boys on these outings. I can't believe that they wouldn't just make an exception for him- these days it's not exactly shocking news that some kids don't have dads at home.

[BabyBearsMummy]

How very sad when more then 50% of families are divided (often with one parent withdrawing) that this is not being treated more compassionatly.

Is there a big brother organization in your area? This sounds like something a big and little brother could really enjoy together.

[incorrigible]

Thanks for all the responces and support. It's nice just to know someone else finds this whole situation just as WRONG as I do.

The children of single parent families don't seem to get involved in much in this area. My kids are really social and make friends with other kids instantly in even short lived classes. We've only run into one other family that didn't have 2 parents in any of their classes or groups. They WERE in scouts, and about the only contact the boy's dad had with him was to come to these scouting things...but, even he came. The family is having a huge personal crisis right now, though, and the boy has had to pull out of all his activities. So, the only other kid ds knows in a single parent family is the 5yr old he mentors. Now, a LOT of these families are (mixed? blended? what's the term when there's remarriage and half/step siblings and such?) but all the other kids have a guy they call dad that is involved. On the one hand, it's a great example for ds. I like that the "norm" he's seeing is dads being involved with their kids, or stepdads loving their stepkids like one of their own. Even if he's feeling like the odd man out, what's being established as normal "guy/dad" behavior in his head is NOT the absentee father.

On the other hand, the father/son aspect is a huge part of scouting around here. Honestly, I think it's because we're in such a sue-happy area. I think people just aren't comfortable being legally responsible if someone else's kid gets hurt on their watch. I really think that's why none of the other dads offer to take ds, too. At the last minute, when he's AT the event without anyone, someone will offer for ds to join him and his son. The silly waivers we have to do for even music lessons around here are just ... well, silly! lol Ds is close with several of the boys, but we seem to have the worst luck with which families we get close to. One, the boy is involved in the drama program at school and the schedules conflict a lot, and he always picks drama over scouts. The other, the boy has serious medical issues and was just hospitalized. Even though the dad has TIME, it would be like putting a magnifying glass on what he and his boy are missing. Other than those two, the other families like the kids to hang out, but don't seem to feel comfortable dealing with me much because I'm a Me instead of a We...so, there's no real contact outside of boy to boy.

At this point, I've just put an all call out for someone to get involved. Friends, church, whatever. It's been out for about 6 months though, with me constantly reminding folk. (one old friend DID take dd to the daddy/daughter dance at church, which was the first either kid has ever had someone for that kind of thing and a HUGE blessing, but it was a one time thing) I emailed today to let the scoutmaster know that, again, ds will probably be going alone. I haven't heard back yet. I'm sure it's because he's having to go to the charter organization and let them know that this "policy" (this same policy is one that's always set by the charter organizations here, not the troop leadership. if they don't run the troop the way the charter wants, it can result in a troop being dissolved, and this is considered standard here)...anyway, he's undoubtedly letting them know that this policy is unreasonable in this case and would exclude a scout, so ds coming alone won't cause some really stupid huge political fallout do to ignorance of the situation. He'll get back to me and say that's fine within the next couple days. He's getting the hang of this. He also knows I would be happy to reduce the charter board members to groveling for forgiveness if they are anything but accepting of ds attending in any fashion he can. (and they all go to church with us and know I'm on the lookout for someone to take him. I consider anyone that insists he needs to bring his own adult male to have volunteered to take him!!! )

As for Big Brothers, the kids have been on their waiting list since their dad left 6 years ago. I stopped calling to check the status a couple years ago. They always said the list was about 2 years long at this point, and they'd contact me when my kids got near their turn. They can't even get enough guys to take 2 kids each for their one time only events (like ballgames and such). There is too strong a societal trend toward men being unwilling or somehow emotionally unable to make a long term commitment to stay in a child's life. Big Brothers doesn't have any more luck with them than their ex-wives.

[Super~Single~Mama]

I'm so sorry your ds is going through this!!

I think maybe its time to ask yourself if its worth it. Are there other activities that you can get your ds involved in that don't require a dad to attend?

If also might be time to just stop asking people to go with him. Tell the troup leaders that your ds's father is dead, and that he won't have a male role model to attend with him. Ask them if THEY can help you find a father/son duo that can be his buddies for the weekend. They should be understanding, and I would expect one of them to jump at the chance. If they don't help you out, I'd be likely to drop out.

[MissLotus]

Yeah, I agree with the PP - ask the troop leaders what they can do to accommodate your son. I mean... what an archaic rule (father's-only camp-outs, etc.)! If the troop leaders can't get it together to help you, I'd consider having your son do other activities instead, where he won't feel ostracized.

My son's not involved in Cub Scouts, but I do have a friend in my town who's the den mother, or whatever you call it. Her husband works really long hours, and she's the one who attends almost all their son's events, including the camp-outs. So I don't think the "father-only" thing applies everywhere. Tell your local folks to get with the program!

[*MamaJen*]

Originally Posted by thyra

If also might be time to just stop asking people to go with him. Tell the troup leaders that your ds's father is dead, and that he won't have a male role model to attend with him. Ask them if THEY can help you find a father/son duo that can be his buddies for the weekend. They should be understanding, and I would expect one of them to jump at the chance. If they don't help you out, I'd be likely to drop out.

His father is dead. I can't imagine that the scout leaders would prohibit him from camping trips because of that.

[WC_hapamama]

Have you considered starting your own troop? How about playing the sympathy card, by telling the leadership how your son lost his father and doesn't necessarily need salt rubbed in the wounds.

I have a friend who goes to all of her son's boy scout events because his father is out of the country on business a lot. It's never been a problem. Granted, we're out here in California, in a different council in a much more liberal area.

[meemee]

oh mama i am soooo sorry. that sucks.

i cant imagine that being a general trend all over.

i have found my friends have made friends with some of the boy scout moms and so the dad has been willing to take the boys.

but gosh. their dad is DEAD and no one is willing to help? do they know that.

irrespective of that i cant imagine no parent standing up for the kid.

my dd is in gscout and we all support each other so much. a couple just broke up so we take the girl with us.

[incorrigible]

ya, it might be time to drop. that's what's so heartbreaking. to have him pushed to the point that he'd turn his back on something he's been so passionate about for so long. When he gave up figure skating because he got tired of being pushed to compete, it was "oh, that's a shame" because it was just something he enjoyed...not something that truly consumed him the way scouting always has.

and ya...i can't imagine a lot of things I'm faced with as a single parent. The fact is that the majority of people just don't care about anyone but themselves...if they even care about themselves. Most parents don't even pay attention to what's happening with their own families. Expecting them to look so far outside of themselves to think about someone ELSE's family is just delusional.

This is boy scouts, not cubs. they're structured very differently, anywhere you go. it's boy scouts that has these things...and yes it's definitely this area. California is the most rules heavy land of them all. We've lived in other areas and never had any issues. It is just a standard for charter organizations around here to insist their troops abide by some set of "rules". There is SOME variety in that, but this one is considered a basic expectation. Some groups insist dads go on EVERY campout and activity....some don't allow any non-family member to sub in...and some don't allow any exceptions to these policies. Some will say they'll work with you to your face, but made ds feel like dirt for not having anyone to come with - by just their attitudes. Our church group is really the best option for him as long as he still has any love of scouting. The troop leadership is just as frustrated as I am, and puts a lot of thought into work-arounds for the sillier expectations this area tends toward. The troop leadership are all native mid-westerners, and just as frustrated by the overprotectiveness of this area as I am....but we wont get into all THAT right now. lol

Right now, they're still just bending this policy for him each time it applies, but encouraging words from the scoutmaster. Some of the charter board members are starting to grumble about this rule being unreasonable, this time around. It's clear that ds is a long time active scout, and they're going to keep getting these calls and having to approve this rule to be bent. It's a pain, and with me asking around for a dad it's got the dads that have trouble getting time off work for these things and such grumbling too. Troopmaster says the ball is rolling (however slowly) toward abolishing this rule. We will be the first troop in the area not to have any required dad participation, if this happens.

[homewithtwinsmama]

Try 4H instead. No dad rules and coed to boot.

[ArtsyMomma]

Originally Posted by meemee

oh mama i am soooo sorry. that sucks.

i cant imagine that being a general trend all over.

i have found my friends have made friends with some of the boy scout moms and so the dad has been willing to take the boys.

but gosh. their dad is DEAD and no one is willing to help? do they know that.

irrespective of that i cant imagine no parent standing up for the kid.

my dd is in gscout and we all support each other so much. a couple just broke up so we take the girl with us.

I can't believe a dad in the troop won't step up either! Especially fellow church members!

DD#1 is a daisy this year (girl scout) and the moms seem really willing to help out in our troop. We have a 'lock-in' on the 10th (sleepover) and they encourage moms to go, but none of the moms with babies are going. Other moms stepped up so that the parent ratio was ok. We even do carpooling to meetings once in a while.

[JollyGG]

I'm also surprised that you are having so much trouble.

I remember my brother being really involved and working a couple of summers at a regional scout camp. The camp leader clearly said that having two male chaperons was ideal but if having one or more of the chaperons be female was the difference between a scout troop getting to do camp and or not do camp, than he was thrilled to get female chaperoned. Every year there were at least a couple of troops with female chaperoned. If whole troops cannot find a single dad who can chaperon the big camping trip I would imagine that single scouts being able to find a male adult would be even more common.

I would suggest, like PP, that you have a discussion with is troop leader and explain that this is the situation. One of two things have to happen. The scout leader finds another Dad to include your son. After all Dad's with more than one son have two scouts they are responsible for. Or alternatively you can be his akela in which case your other children need to be allowed to attend the event as well. Honestly, I attended a lot of boyscout events as a young girl just because my Dad was the troop leader and my brothers were scouts and I just ended up tagging along. I've noticed my son's troop has families with lots of sisters hanging with too.

[JollyGG]

Have you tried talking to your minister? He may know someone who would be perfect to pair up with your son for these types of things.

The priest may know someone like my brother who really gets a kick out of scouts and enjoys it but doesn't have any sons of his own, or someone whose boyscout sons are grown and off to college, or a retiree with time on his hands who would love to get out and do something like this, or a college kid who wants to extend his enjoyment of scouting just a few more years.

[Jyotsna]

I wanted to bump this thread up because I am facing something similar.
My son's scout troop is very paternalistic, and whenever there is a call that goes out to ask for drivers, someone to go camping or someone to help at firebuilding or xyz, I nearly say I will do this, but remember they are only asking for men to help.

My own brother has said that this is a father oriented scout troop and warned me about it before. At a "parent's" meeting recently, one of the leaders said, "I want to make sure that everyone understands that we are interested in mothers helping too". I almost jumped up and invited myself to the next camp out except for the fact that I would have to poop in the woods with the boys. Not my cup of tea.

I do love many of the scout activities however, and I am sorry that I can't be involved with my son's troop like I had hoped.

Giving the situation with my son's father (not very interested in camping, never has been on a scout camping trip or activity except for bowling), there is no chance that his father will participate. Sadly, the men point out over and over that mostly the boys with fathers involved in the troop will get eagle.

I hope my son gets what he needs from this troop and then leaves before he can ever get his eagle scout. Many of the boys who get eagle go into the military willingly, or apply for military school/college. I don't want my son to do that.

I think it is horrible when a troop thinks that a boy must bring his father with him when he is no longer alive or has left the family. Boys can really benefit from a troop where the men honor the mother and father as well as the boy.