Experts concerned about vaccination backlash

[Marnica]

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.c...t-vaccine.html

The Lancet, Volume 375, Issue 9719, Pages 970 – 971, 20 March 2010

Offit suggests one way to raise vaccination rates is to make it harder for people not to get themselves or their children vaccinated. This could mean, for example, attending educational classes that teach the public what the safety profiles of different vaccines are, before they are allowed to opt out of vaccination. “You have to convince people that a choice not to get a vaccine is not a risk-free choice; it’s just a choice to take a different risk.”

Is he for real?? Does he honestly think those of us who have put in the time to research this topic really think that not vaxing is risk free. And those classes would be filled with pro vax porpaganda, not the facts and the real risks.

anti-vaccination messages have partly been responsible for the poor uptake of the H1N1 vaccine

GOOD!!!!

Public-health messages should be simple, honest and straightforward

...what a joke!

[Gladiolus]

Their message was simply: “vaccines are the devil”.

That's what they thought we were saying - that's what they heard?!? I don't think that's ever crossed my mind when rejecting vaccines - especially H1N1!
And why do they think we don't look at the science and that science isn't on our side? They think we're the ones with the crazy scare-tactics? Oh... more of the same, they're either just not listening to us anti-vaxers or they're getting the message but changing it for the mainstream public.

[Sileree]

Oh a class? Is this a class you have to sit through silently? If not, I'd love it. I'd be the annoying student who asks impertinent questions and brings studies to quote from that shoot holes through the usual nonsense propaganda. It'd be awesome to watch them flounder.

These are the sorts of things I'd ask:
- Can you talk about this study which shows that injected pertussis toxins induce susceptibility to invasive Hib?
- Can you talk about serotype replacement for bacterial vaccines?
- Can you talk about this study which shows measles virus has been found in the nose of a recently vaccinated child, and how this relates to herd immunity?
- Can you talk about this statement from the IOM that vaccines really have not done much to reduce mortality from diseases compared to other things like sanitation?
- Can you talk about this study that shows that diphtheria is not a contagious disease in modern society?
- Can you talk about the Cochrane Collaboration review which states flu vaccines are nearly useless?

And on and on.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Gladiolus

Oh... more of the same, they're either just not listening to us anti-vaxers or they're getting the message but changing it for the mainstream public.

I think the message isn't so much to change non vaxer's minds, but more to make the rest of the world think non vaxer's are nuts and dangerous - to discredit us. If the mainsteam can be convinced that we are all crazy, Pharma can keep their vaccine uptake high.

They don't have to get us to vaccinate, they just have to keep everyone from listening to us.

[Arduinna]

“You have to convince people that a choice not to get a vaccine is not a risk-free choice; it’s just a choice to take a different risk.”

We need a class for this?


sigh.

[Jugs]

“You have to convince people that a choice not to get a vaccine is not a risk-free choice; it’s just a choice to take a different risk.”

Uh... our side has been saying that for years

[claddaghmom]

A class, eh? Boy that would be the day. I'd probably be arrested for making a scene haha.

[Just1More]

Who's gonna make me go?

This kind of thing gives me the heebie jeebies...

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by Jugs

Uh... our side has been saying that for years

EXACTLY! And thank you very much Mr. Offit for recognizing that it IS a choice we make (though that may not have been his intent I'm sure!). I, too would love to take a class, other than the fact that would mean my family had been noticed and was on the radar so to speak.

ETA: And the whole thing about the H1N1? Even some of the most pro-vax people I know of didn't get that one because they didn't see a need for it. Had it been available earlier, I'm sure many would have, but by the time it got here people had either already had it or just weren't afraid of it any longer. You really can't blame the lack of success of that one solely on the anti-vaxxing population!

[nicolebeth]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

They don't have to get us to vaccinate, they just have to keep everyone from listening to us.

Exactly!

[Turquesa]

So by Offit's proposal, if you choose to go against what your government wants you to do, you are sentenced to a mandatory re-education program. Does anybody here know how to do channeling? I'd love to hear what George Orwell has to say about this.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

So by Offit's proposal, if you choose to go against what your government wants you to do, you are sentenced to a mandatory re-education program. Does anybody here know how to do channeling? I'd love to hear what George Orwell has to say about this.

[Arduinna]

Speaking of classes, you know the CDC did run a vax education class in southern Oregon a year or two ago IIRC. from what I read 'twas interesting LOL

[mamadelbosque]

If anyone can explain to me why it is that vaccine manufacturers need immunity, and/or what exactly their insentive is to make sure their products are safe since they HAVE immunity, I'll consider vaxing. Untill you can do that, I won't even consider it. Currently, they just have zero insentive to make sure their products are safe. Zero. So why exactly should I trust them??

[BarnMomma]

What a joke.

Anyone have the numbers for that "measles epidemic?"

It's a shame that people like this get air time on major news stations.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by mamadelbosque

If anyone can explain to me why it is that vaccine manufacturers need immunity, and/or what exactly their insentive is to make sure their products are safe since they HAVE immunity, I'll consider vaxing. Untill you can do that, I won't even consider it. Currently, they just have zero insentive to make sure their products are safe. Zero. So why exactly should I trust them??

I think the theory is that if they didn't have immunity, they'd have to buy insurance, and they would have to charge a lot more for the vaccines, rendering them unaffordable to most people. Nobody in the medical field does a good job because of a fear of lawsuits. They just buy insurance. If they are responsible people, they act responsibly, and if they aren't, they don't. The incentive to do a good job (besides, of course, morality and ethics) is the same as anyone else--their careers and the future of their companies are at stake.

I'm not trying to get you to vax, and I really don't care whether you do. I just think your primary concern should be the safety of your children rather than whether you can sue if something goes wrong.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by Turquesa

So by Offit's proposal, if you choose to go against what your government wants you to do, you are sentenced to a mandatory re-education program. Does anybody here know how to do channeling? I'd love to hear what George Orwell has to say about this.

Now I may be wrong, and to be honest I totally suck at history, but I'm thinking this was done by Stalin? Hitler? Someone "really bad" who had the whole re-education camps (on something other than vaccines of course) and such. I can't recall of course the details, but I do recall studying it at one time.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I think the theory is that if they didn't have immunity, they'd have to buy insurance, and they would have to charge a lot more for the vaccines, rendering them unaffordable to most people. Nobody in the medical field does a good job because of a fear of lawsuits. They just buy insurance. If they are responsible people, they act responsibly, and if they aren't, they don't. The incentive to do a good job (besides, of course, morality and ethics) is the same as anyone else--their careers and the future of their companies are at stake.

I'm not trying to get you to vax, and I really don't care whether you do. I just think your primary concern should be the safety of your children rather than whether you can sue if something goes wrong.

No it actually had nothing to do with needing insurance and making vaccines unaffordable for people. What was happening before 1986 is that people were suing and rightly so after their children where horribly damaged from a vaccine and the manufacturers were paying so much out in damages that they threatened to stop making the vaccines at all. Now God forbid there would be no vaccines, so they created the national injury compensation law in 1986. It had to do with the bottom line $$$$.for the companies and the law was suppposed to actually create a place where families would have an easier time getting compensated, but it has not turned out that way at all. I rec you read this: http://www.nvic.org/injury-compensat...ineinjury.aspx

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by Marnica

No it actually had nothing to do with needing insurance and making vaccines unaffordable for people. What was happening before 1986 is that people were suing and rightly so after their children where horribly damaged from a vaccine and the manufacturers were paying so much out in damages that they threatened to stop making the vaccines at all.

Well, okay, but it's the same principle. If there's liability but no insurance, people don't take that big of a risk unless there's a really big payoff. Regardless of what you believe, the people who passed the law did it because they believed that a higher cost or a break in the vaccine supply would be a national health risk. There's nothing nefarious about that motivation.

[anechka]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

Now I may be wrong, and to be honest I totally suck at history, but I'm thinking this was done by Stalin? Hitler? Someone "really bad" who had the whole re-education camps (on something other than vaccines of course) and such. I can't recall of course the details, but I do recall studying it at one time.

The so-called "re-education camps" were first introduced by the chairman Mao during the times of the Cultural Revolution.